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Cocaine and the Introvert drugs, introversion
Old 08-13-2008, 05:09 AM   #1
v1cious
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what do the int*'s think of cocaine, or other stimulants?

from my experience, introverted individuals appreciate the cocaine euphoria much more than extroverts. i think this is due to the fact that the cocaine high for the introvert inverts the perspective and offers a look at the world from a completely different angle whereas the perspective for the extrovert remains pretty much the same.

personally, i love it. i must admit that being able to effortlessly jump from one topic of conversation to another is an ability that i wish was not so undermined for myself as an intj.

thoughts/comments?
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:28 AM   #2
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I don't want to touch that stuff, if no one got addicted on that stuff it would be great, but its to risky.
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Old 08-13-2008, 05:40 AM   #3
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  Originally Posted by redbaren
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I don't want to touch that stuff, if no one got addicted on that stuff it would be great, but its to risky.

regardless of what the DEA or DARE might have you believe, it is important to remember that every drug out there can be used responsibly.

on that same note, addiction to cocaine is not an overnight process.

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Old 08-13-2008, 10:53 AM   #4
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  Originally Posted by v1cious
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on that same note, addiction to cocaine is not an overnight process.

I have to disagree with this statement. It may not be a overnight process for you, or some other people but for some it is.

Every person is unique so they have varing levels of control, will power, torerance to different drugs. In your case you may have a low levels of natural dopamine so that cocaine does not effect you in the same way as someone with higher natural levels.

I try to stay away from drugs in general, I do have to admit to having the occasional beer with supper, and when I have a bbque on the weekend if company comes over I may have a few more. As for anything harder I could never justify to myself the risk of losing my family/going to jail/getting fined/losing my job against the reward of feeling better for a hour or so.

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Old 08-13-2008, 11:11 AM   #5
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I don't know if I/E has anything to do with it, but I love weed. That actually makes me more introverted, though, so it's probably not very relevant here.

  Originally Posted by Zedicus
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I have to disagree with this statement. It may not be a overnight process for you, or some other people but for some it is.

I'm still a bit scared of cocaine, too, but I am very aware that this has nothing to do with experience and everything to do with what I've been told by parents and teachers, most of whom lack experience as well and have been told by parents and teachers, etc. Lately I've come to realise, from hearing people around me talk freely about cocaine use, that it really isn't that devilish. Heroine and the like are a different story, but cocaine can probably be used responsibly.

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Old 08-13-2008, 11:21 AM   #6
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I despise stimulants more intense than caffeine - I'm jittery enough as it is. If I'm going to use a foreign substance, it will always be something that knocks me the hell out rather than jack me up.

Over the years, I've watched a couple friends of mine become completely enraptured with cocaine. Not a pretty picture. My biggest problem with it (aside from it nearly destroying my friends' respective lives): it turns people into plastic. Show me a room filled with cokeheads doing their thing, and I'll show you a room filled with a million conversations about nothing.

It should be stated, however, that the friend of mine most profoundly affected by the drug is an intense introvert.
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Old 08-13-2008, 04:49 PM   #7
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I top out at caffiene.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:31 AM   #8
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  Originally Posted by Zedicus
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I have to disagree with this statement. It may not be a overnight process for you, or some other people but for some it is.

Every person is unique so they have varing levels of control, will power, torerance to different drugs. In your case you may have a low levels of natural dopamine so that cocaine does not effect you in the same way as someone with higher natural levels.

that's like saying, "you could say marijuana is not an addictive substance, but everyone is different and there is varying levels of control/willpower/tolerance so the statement that marijuana is not an addictive substance is false." varying levels of control, will power and tolerance and intrinsic to absolutely everything. some people get addicted to poker, some people get addicted to sex, some people get addicted to marijuana; does that make saying that "addiction to poker, sex, or marijuana is not an overnight process" factually incorrect? i don't think it does.


 
I try to stay away from drugs in general, I do have to admit to having the occasional beer with supper, and when I have a bbque on the weekend if company comes over I may have a few more. As for anything harder I could never justify to myself the risk of losing my family/going to jail/getting fined/losing my job against the reward of feeling better for a hour or so.

societal indoctrination such as this makes me want to cry sometimes.

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Old 08-14-2008, 01:19 AM   #9
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It helped me to be social when I was in my twentys, now I can not figure out why I ever wanted to be social, at least not on the level I was acting on.
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Old 08-14-2008, 02:03 AM   #10
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  Originally Posted by v1cious
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that's like saying, "you could say marijuana is not an addictive substance, but everyone is different and there is varying levels of control/willpower/tolerance so the statement that marijuana is not an addictive substance is false." varying levels of control, will power and tolerance and intrinsic to absolutely everything. some people get addicted to poker, some people get addicted to sex, some people get addicted to marijuana; does that make saying that "addiction to poker, sex, or marijuana is not an overnight process" factually incorrect? i don't think it does.

I never said the statement was factually incorrect, I stated I did not agree with it. However, now that you bring it up, I will state that it is factually incorrect. In order for it not to be, no one in history would ever have gotten addicted to cocaine overnight. I do not think this is true, I also do not think you could say it about any of the things you raised in your post towards me, so I do not think that statement is true either.

edit
To be factually correct you could have said.
addiction to cocaine does not have to be an overnight process.
/edit

  Originally Posted by v1cious
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Regardless of what the DEA or DARE might have you believe, it is important to remember that every drug out there can be used responsibly.

on that same note, addiction to cocaine is not an overnight process.

So, I may have been able to phrase that a bit better but I do stand by not agreeing with the statement and for the reasons I listed. I am sorry this makes you want to cry but I still do not believe the benefit to me out weights the risks. Much like I do not believe that the few seconds I could gain on my commute home out weights the risks of an accident or ticket from running a red light during rush hour.

I have seen too many addicts, and have seen what it does to their life. The majority of addicts I have seen are addicted to some type of drug and the derogatory effects of the addiction seem to correlate pretty closely to the strength of the drug they are addicted to. Yes I know people addicted to marijuana and I have seen adverse effects on them both personally and socially. However, the "harder" or more potent drugs seem to have an escalated effect on the lives of the people addicted. To be fair I know people who use many different types of drugs and I have seen no adverse effects in them, so I am not refuting your statement on "responsible use".

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Old 08-14-2008, 02:10 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by v1cious
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societal indoctrination such as this makes me want to cry sometimes.

I can see why you would think so. However, I don't see that as societal indoctrination, but a matter of exercising absolute control over one's life, when possible. You have 3 choices:

1. Take drugs freely and THINK that you can stop at any time, but lost control in the end.

2. Take drugs occasionally. Depending on one's definition of occasionally, some will become addicted eventually, and some will be OK their whole life.

3. Absolutely do not touch the stuff. This means that even just a slight risk (of addiction, getting caught, being out of control, etc) is not acceptable. Absolute control, when it's within your power to do so, is everything. This doesn't necessarily mean that you'd avoid all risks in life. You just pick and choose wisely which risks to take, based on success rate and/or the causes you're willing to take a chance on.

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Old 08-14-2008, 02:47 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by Allie
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I can see why you would think so. However, I don't see that as societal indoctrination, but a matter of exercising absolute control over one's life, when possible. You have 3 choices:

1. Take drugs freely and THINK that you can stop at any time, but lost control in the end.

2. Take drugs occasionally. Depending on one's definition of occasionally, some will become addicted eventually, and some will be OK their whole life.

3. Absolutely do not touch the stuff. This means that even just a slight risk (of addiction, getting caught, being out of control, etc) is not acceptable. Absolute control, when it's within your power to do so, is everything. This doesn't necessarily mean that you'd avoid all risks in life. You just pick and choose wisely which risks to take, based on success rate and/or the causes you're willing to take a chance on.

that's not what i was referring to. more about it below:

  Originally Posted by Zedicus
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I never said the statement was factually incorrect,

you sure didn't, but factual incorrectness was the only reason for disagreement that i could infer from your post.

 
I stated I did not agree with it.

then state a reason for disagreement that is better than just semantics.

 
However, now that you bring it up, I will state that it is factually incorrect. In order for it not to be, no one in history would ever have gotten addicted to cocaine overnight. I do not think this is true, I also do not think you could say it about any of the things you raised in your post towards me, so I do not think that statement is true either.

then would you agree with the reasoning about marijuana being an addictive substance?

 
edit
To be factually correct you could have said.
addiction to cocaine does not have to be an overnight process.
/edit

k, so i guess you can change what i said to "addiction to cocaine is not an overnight process for the vast majority of all people." i'll let you have this shallow semantic victory.


 
I have seen too many addicts, and have seen what it does to their life. The majority of addicts I have seen are addicted to some type of drug and the derogatory effects of the addiction seem to correlate pretty closely to the strength of the drug they are addicted to. Yes I know people addicted to marijuana and I have seen adverse effects on them both personally and socially. However, the "harder" or more potent drugs seem to have an escalated effect on the lives of the people addicted. To be fair I know people who use many different types of drugs and I have seen no adverse effects in them, so I am not refuting your statement on "responsible use".

this is what i meant when i mentioned social conditioning. most drug problems in society are a direct result of this. if doing heroin was as socially acceptable as having a cup of tea in the morning or having a beer at the bbq with your mates, would we still have people gradually dropping out of society because they are forced to keep their addictions secret and eventually forced to engage in compulsive behaviour to support their habits? perhaps, but not at the rate that it is happening at today.

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Old 08-14-2008, 03:26 AM   #13
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  Originally Posted by v1cious
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then would you agree with the reasoning about marijuana being an addictive substance?

No I would not for the same shallow semantic reasons, as I would not agree with your first statement. Marijuana is an addictive substance for some and not for others. The same can be said for almost anything else except for breathing. There is always going to be people who can give something up while others cannot.

  Originally Posted by v1cious
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k, so i guess you can change what i said to "addiction to cocaine is not an overnight process for the vast majority of all people." i'll let you have this shallow semantic victory.

Thank you, but I would never phrase it like that, having no proof about the "vast majority of all people" part.

  Originally Posted by v1cious
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this is what i meant when i mentioned social conditioning. most drug problems in society are a direct result of this. if doing heroin was as socially acceptable as having a cup of tea in the morning or having a beer at the bbq with your mates, would we still have people gradually dropping out of society because they are forced to keep their addictions secret and eventually forced to engage in compulsive behaviour to support their habits? perhaps, but not at the rate that it is happening at today.

I do however agree with this statement. There would still be people who would abuse any socially accepted drug, however it would not be at the same rate as today.

I still would not use these types of drugs if it were accepted however, much for the same reasons I didn't when I was growing up and in the circle of people I did grow up in, it was accepted. I was the rebel because I would refuse to partake. I did not then or now see the benefit of an artificial sense of euphoria. If I needed to be stimulated I would do something that stimulated me not reach for a crutch.

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Old 08-14-2008, 04:24 AM   #14
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Every person I know who has used cocaine has been ruined by it. They are amazing at rationalizing their behaviour and will always say that they are in complete control. Half are now dead from overdoses and the other half are bankrupt. The ones that are still alive will be homeless soon or already are, but still believe that they can stop any time they want.

If it didnt seem like a wonderful thing to the people using it, nobody would use it enough to kill themselves.
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Old 08-15-2008, 05:41 PM   #15
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My body can barely handle caffeine without turning into a nervous wreck. I think my body would explode if I did coke.
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Old 08-15-2008, 08:44 PM   #16
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I tried cocaine once, but it was too sketchy for me to consider doing it again. The energy boost was fun, but the irrational paranoia not so much. I can understand how people can get addicted though, cocaine does have quite a pull to it.


As for the responsible use of recreational drugs, the key is to recognise that they are addictive and accept the fact that you can get addicted to it. Thus to use drugs responsibly you need to observe your urges when your sober for signs of addiction. In my experience, all additions take the same form, though the strength can vary depending on the drug. If you catch the urges from addiction early when they are the weakest, then it's not to difficult to go clean again. The danger comes if you ignore the early warnings of addiction.

Of course not everyone is capable of exercising the necessary self examination and self control required to experiment with drugs safely and responsibly. So unless you are confident that you fully understand all the risks, it's better to just avoid them entirely.
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:02 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by v1cious
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regardless of what the DEA or DARE might have you believe, it is important to remember that every drug out there can be used responsibly.

Not having any personal experience with these things, I'd be inclined to agree with you, at least on a theoretical level as far as the end-user is concerned (like how that people misuse booze and cough medicine, but I don't think those are inherently bad). I don't know about the producers, though.


Addition: Of course, you could say the same think about Nikes.

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Old 08-15-2008, 09:28 PM   #18
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  Originally Posted by v1cious
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what do the int*'s think of cocaine, or other stimulants?

from my experience, introverted individuals appreciate the cocaine euphoria much more than extroverts. i think this is due to the fact that the cocaine high for the introvert inverts the perspective and offers a look at the world from a completely different angle whereas the perspective for the extrovert remains pretty much the same.

Ha, I didn't expect the "drugs are bad" type of rant above that quickly....

I would love to try cocaine but never would in the current prohibitionist era. I vaguely recall reading ages ago that if you could get pure stuff and use a measured dose it has many positive affects and is not particularly addictive. (Feel free to flame me on this, drugs are bad, mkay)

However the reason I would not try it is not fear of jail, loss of job, etc, but that it is in a dealer's interests to soil the drug to maximise profit.

How does a dealer maximise profit? Mix the drug with cheaper and preferably more addictive substances so your once-off customer becomes a regular.

On the stimulant high query for an Introvert, I generally found on uppers that it was cool but weird, sort of like being drunk but instead of being slurry and stumbly and sleepy, I was alert and full of energy. Ah my mispent youth <insert nostalgic thoughts>.

Why are we only allowed one depressant type recreational drug that contributes to violent behaviour when there is a green alternative?

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Old 08-15-2008, 09:47 PM   #19
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I avoid all stimulants, and all drugs for that matter. I even avoid caffeine, apart from chocolate. I'm somewhat paranoid about being bound to anything, so I don't do drugs at all.

I imagine I would go nuts if I had that kind of energy.
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:06 AM   #20
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I've tried it twice. I can agree that it can be a very seductive drug for introverts, I loved the sense of euphoria, and without the bad "coming down" experience that ecstasy can give you afterwards. The morning after kind of sucks though, if you need to be up for something.

Weed is alright.
It's nice to smoke, sit back, and think about the world or flex your creative prowess. But it can make you lazylazylazy. And it isn't worth it to lose a job over (assuming you live where it's illegal).
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Old 08-18-2008, 04:57 AM   #21
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i'll just go ahead and clarify this first because it thought it was going to be obvious, but of the thread was to confirm my suspicions that introverts enjoy the drug more, not to call upon the brainwashed to tell me how bad drugs are and why they will never try them.

  Originally Posted by Zedicus
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No I would not for the same shallow semantic reasons, as I would not agree with your first statement. Marijuana is an addictive substance for some and not for others. The same can be said for almost anything else except for breathing. There is always going to be people who can give something up while others cannot.

then you are wrong to disagree about the first statement that i made. it doesn't seem like you understand the concept of degrees or generalization.


 
Thank you, but I would never phrase it like that, having no proof about the "vast majority of all people" part.

and where does your "proof" about cocaine and marijuana being addictive substances for some stem from? the fact that it is the view that is espoused by society?


 
I still would not use these types of drugs if it were accepted however, much for the same reasons I didn't when I was growing up and in the circle of people I did grow up in, it was accepted. I was the rebel because I would refuse to partake. I did not then or now see the benefit of an artificial sense of euphoria.

what is an artificial sense of euphoria as opposed to a non-artificial sense of euphoria?

 
If I needed to be stimulated I would do something that stimulated me not reach for a crutch.

right, because people that use drugs are obviously doing it to "reach for a crutch..."

  Originally Posted by SiMey
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Ha, I didn't expect the "drugs are bad" type of rant above that quickly....

I would love to try cocaine but never would in the current prohibitionist era. I vaguely recall reading ages ago that if you could get pure stuff and use a measured dose it has many positive affects and is not particularly addictive. (Feel free to flame me on this, drugs are bad, mkay)

this is actually quite true. pure cocaine has no jitteriness to it, has a very clean, extroverted high and no comedown; there's also no craving for it after you're done. there are several ways of purifying the cocaine, so it's not altogether hopeless.

the part about the greed in the current prohibitionist era is very true-- current levels of actual cocaine on the streets are 20-40%. the 60-80% of the cut that you're getting varies from ephedrine to caffeine to bc powder and i can definitely see how it can disincentivize people from ever trying it.

  Originally Posted by Airius
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I've tried it twice. I can agree that it can be a very seductive drug for introverts, I loved the sense of euphoria, and without the bad "coming down" experience that ecstasy can give you afterwards. The morning after kind of sucks though, if you need to be up for something.

Weed is alright.
It's nice to smoke, sit back, and think about the world or flex your creative prowess. But it can make you lazylazylazy. And it isn't worth it to lose a job over (assuming you live where it's illegal).

personally, i dislike weed because it makes me more introverted. i dislike downers in general, actually.

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Old 08-18-2008, 09:11 AM   #22
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  Originally Posted by Zedicus
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I did not then or now see the benefit of an artificial sense of euphoria. If I needed to be stimulated I would do something that stimulated me not reach for a crutch.

Do you see how this offends casual drug users? You talk about drugs denigratingly and implictly place yourself above users.

We could go through your daily routines and pick out stuff that could be labeled a crutch, but everyone can have their so called "crutches" if they like. For instance: you could trim your diet down to the essentials and eliminate the tastiest foods, but I don't see you ever doing that. Are the tasty foods crutches of sorts because of that? I don't need milk and Oreos, but I wouldn't give those up for a week. How are they different from my beloved marijuana? (Remember: MJ is not physically addictive.)

You can either bungee jump or snort a line, so to speak, and these activities are more similar than different in the sense that they stimulate you and/or create a sense of euphoria. Is it so radical a distinction that one of both activities involves a substance?

v1cious: I prefer weed for just that reason
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:47 AM   #23
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  Originally Posted by zibber
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Do you see how this offends casual drug users? You talk about drugs denigratingly and implictly place yourself above users.

I have to say that I am sorry it came accross that way.

Sorry.

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Old 08-18-2008, 02:57 PM   #24
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Growing up around junkies and alcoholics have ruined all that stuff for me. I've never been particularly interested and for the time being I doubt that will change - I've got much to far to fall if I get busted for drug possession. And I don't think stims would be a good choice for me. I already bounce off the walls and I don't even like how I feel coming off a coffee buzz.
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Old 08-19-2008, 09:17 AM   #25
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Cocaine puts holes in the brain with regular use, and is one of the most addictive drugs available.
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