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"It's just that sometimes people use thought to not participate in life" None
Old 08-14-2011, 03:49 AM   #1
staticjenn
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This is a quote from the book 'The Perks of Being a Wallflower'. The passage this quote was taken from was :

"Do you always think this much, Charlie?"
"Is that bad?" I just wanted someone to tell me the truth.
"Not necessarily. It's just that sometimes people use thought to not participate in life."
"Is that bad?"
"Yes."

I often feel like this. Is this true for all INTJ's? Do you think it is bad? How so?
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:25 AM   #2
Purgatid
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It's true for some INTJ.
It's not true for other INTJ.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:46 AM   #3
stasis
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As if I need some kind of excuse to not participate in life.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:50 AM   #4
Bluecrux
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The only way someone doesn't participate in ljfe is when fear takes control of him/her and he avoids taking the plunge.
If due to a person's own conditioning or layers of mental blankets, which make his/her vision blurry and narrow and he does not see possibilities openly because of some misinformation he has gathered that has settled around his head.

Otherwise, the problem here is we live in a world, where our way of participating in life is so different than all other people. Due to the overwhelmingly increasing number of extroverts, who dread being alone, and term it as something unhealthy, this is increasingly becoming the general opinion. How do you define being happy? We all think, having a good social life, putting up a good face and being very actively involved with the society.

I enjoy thinking a lot and I like people who do that because they have such a rich inner life. I do not have this mental blockade or preconceived notion of the term 'fulfillment' or 'participation', that only if I do that, I am supposed to be happy and fulfilled. Everything is just an idea ultimately. It's which idea you want to ride on, and build a world around.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:10 AM   #5
Odie
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An unfortunate side effect of our powers of reason are the addictive qualities of imagination. Thoughts inspire emotion, the stronger the thought, the stronger the emotion. Enjoyable thoughts can be pleasant, one can grow addicted to the imagination. In this type of society especially, where no one is ever truly challenged, and thus never learns the value of sanity, this is a very common occurrence. To be perfectly honest, I see humanity as crippled by it for the time being.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:49 AM   #6
MrFox
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Hello Jenn,

You don't tell us how old you are - that's kind of important.

If you're well over 40, well what the hell - withdraw if that makes you happier. You've seen plenty of life already.

If you're well under 40 - it seems risky to withdraw so soon.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:57 AM   #7
peppersasen
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Oh. Interesting. I was just about to start a thread about "making life simple". I wrote this draft:

 
As I endured the pain of a Brazilian wax today, I thought: "what if this were the worst of my concerns? The heat of wax and having my body hair pulled off?"

The fact that I even went out to get a wax was because I simplified my logistics by only leaving the house when I want to (I'd normally spend Sundays running errands, like being at the supermarket--I didn't do that today, instead I got prettified and got skin care products at
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). What if I stopped caring about all the big things I used to care about? Like human rights for instance? Or how
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?

It would be like that song "
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" by Strokes where they sing "and your problem is you can't find your remote control".
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What if all I worried about was having flawless skin, watching films, enjoying music, achieving skin so flawless the only make-up I'd use would be lip gloss/mascara, finding a boyfriend? I'd stop reading about politics and stop wanting to "fix" the world (as desribed in
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). My concerns would be petty, my life would be simple. The less I care, the I'm distressed, the less I expect the less disappointment I suffer from.

What do you think? Good idea? Bad idea? Would I be happier if I gave less a shit about life and took it easy?

So... I also am considering on quitting participation! I don't know if it's a phase. But I like the idea of being a simple person living the simple life.

---------- Post added 08-14-2011 at 01:59 PM ----------

Besides, participation is voluntary. *paints nails and reads Pride & Prejudice whilst waiting for the polish to dry*

---------- Post added 08-14-2011 at 02:04 PM ----------

Just my iPod and I. On the beach... Hm.

---------- Post added 08-14-2011 at 02:08 PM ----------

"When I grow up, I want to study international law, learn who really runs the UN, and then be someone's trophy wife and read international law and human rights academic journals on the beach, bitch." So simple. So beautiful. So... Oh.

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Old 08-14-2011, 11:55 AM   #8
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  Originally Posted by peppersasen
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Oh. Interesting. I was just about to start a thread about "making life simple". I wrote this draft:
So... I also am considering on quitting participation! I don't know if it's a phase. But I like the idea of being a simple person living the simple life.

---------- Post added 08-14-2011 at 01:59 PM ----------

Besides, participation is voluntary. *paints nails and reads Pride & Prejudice whilst waiting for the polish to dry*

---------- Post added 08-14-2011 at 02:04 PM ----------

Just my iPod and I. On the beach... Hm.

---------- Post added 08-14-2011 at 02:08 PM ----------

"When I grow up, I want to study international law, learn who really runs the UN, and then be someone's trophy wife and read international law and human rights academic journals on the beach, bitch." So simple. So beautiful. So... Oh.

I think someone on this forum made the argument that society is always encouraging you to find yourself.

Then he argued, after finding yourself and being so aware of everything (much like you are), it is time to lose yourself. Lose yourself in whatever you love doing and focus on that. In you case, maybe save up for a camera and do so some short movies
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.

@OP I think that person is equating thought=laziness. There are obviously great things that came about from people's thinking. I don't know if you could argue that thought is escapism in some form.

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Old 08-14-2011, 02:17 PM   #9
judymrad
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I have always felt like I experience my life more as the narrator behind the scenes rather than the person actually living it. It has been very hard to describe this to other people and even to myself at times.

I am in therapy now for a variety of reasons and this has helped me to recognize that I do this so that I won't have to feel anything if something doesn't go right. I just think about things over and over, before it happens, as it is happening, and after it has happened, trying to find a nice rational box to put all my experiences in to make sense of them.

This means I waste a lot of life thinking about all the implications rather than participating in life -- whether enjoying something fully if it is pleasurable or learning something if it's not so great. I think it is better for me in my core relationships and for myself, to get out of my head as there is only one pass through life (my view), so why cut yourself off from experiencing it?

As to the comment about if you are over 40, what the H, just do what you want, I have to say learning is much easier when you are over 40 because you have more tools in your life toolbox and hopefully, more financial/social resources to help you if you want to make changes.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #10
Anima Mundi
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If I had a choice, I'd rather be a spectator of life than a participant.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:10 PM   #11
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Life is mundane, boring, and loud. I think/learn because it is much more interesting and quieter.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:14 PM   #12
kikimora
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It's definitely true for me. I do it deliberately when I'm bored. If done too much it might be a bad sign - I hear that a lot of Fantasy fans, for example, use it to withdraw from reality because they aren't comfortable with it or with themselves. It is probably better to work on your faults than to withdraw from them.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:49 PM   #13
Luciferus
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That's the goal of life according to Schopenhauer...to suppress the Will by knowledge and become the spectator of life.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:57 PM   #14
Hobbesrevenge
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  Originally Posted by staticjenn
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This is a quote from the book 'The Perks of Being a Wallflower'. The passage this quote was taken from was :

"Do you always think this much, Charlie?"
"Is that bad?" I just wanted someone to tell me the truth.
"Not necessarily. It's just that sometimes people use thought to not participate in life."
"Is that bad?"
"Yes."

I often feel like this. Is this true for all INTJ's? Do you think it is bad? How so?

Lovely quote. I can relate and found that this also applies to quite a few people in my life. I've always found that much to my dismay that thinking, as wonderful as it is and can be sometimes, is often times a real hindrance in what it means to really live. I've found that getting out of my head and getting out there is one of the real crazy truths in experiencing a good and fulfilling life. That said, I'm an INFP and always will be so, a balance is crucial, I also need that time in my head to break things down and analyze.

In terms of INTJ's, I believe this could be the case in my limited experience, yet I also feel everyone is different, it probably wouldn't be wise to generalize.

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Old 08-14-2011, 09:31 PM   #15
Chameleon
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It's not that I use thought to not participate in life; it's that I have already lived my life in my thoughts.
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:20 PM   #16
Haumea
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Do you think it is bad? How so?

You can think and talk yourself out of doing just about anything. And then you miss out on opportunities to grow. Ultimately it's just fear. It's more fruitful to just recognize one's fears and to find a way to deal with them.

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Old 08-14-2011, 10:52 PM   #17
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The only way to stop participating in life is to commit suicide.

Otherwise the original claim is fallacious.

Unless, of course, we understand it colloquially instead of literally.
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Old 08-15-2011, 01:03 AM   #18
CyanideSoda
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All the time. I am happy spending time in my imagination, making up stories and resolving plot points in my head then write them. I do give up a percentage to "living" my life but the thought-time is my perfect time. I've rarely had a better time out of my head than in.



  Originally Posted by Sphinx
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The only way to stop participating in life is to commit suicide.

Otherwise the original claim is fallacious.

Unless, of course, we understand it colloquially instead of literally.

I think the OP just means that they prefer to think about stuff rather than do stuff in life.

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Old 08-15-2011, 01:06 AM   #19
Distance
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If you have a chance, take a look at Enneagram theory. Many INTJs and INTPs are enneagram 5s who are seekers of knowledge, who withdraw from life to maintain control.
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Old 08-15-2011, 01:14 AM   #20
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The strange part is that we're participating in the first place.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:11 PM   #21
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We live in our heads for a reason: we've seen day to day life and it's damn boring. Am I right?
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:00 PM   #22
roninpro
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I think that it's the opposite. People avoid thought in order to avoid participating in life. (I think the phrase is "burying your head into a hole in the ground".)
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:09 PM   #23
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We live in our heads for a reason: we've seen day to day life and it's damn boring. Am I right?

I definitely agree with this. Reality can never come even close to what my imagination and thoughts can conjure up - that which is much more meaningful and substantial than any mundane 'reality'.

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Old 08-15-2011, 09:29 PM   #24
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Several good points. Thinking is not a sign of escaping in my opinion for the simple fact that the Earth might still be the center of the universe if it wasn't for someone thinking. Ahhemhem...Galileo.

Though the voices in my head tell me to drown out the incessant noise from the diseased exrtoverts.
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Old 08-16-2011, 12:27 AM   #25
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  Originally Posted by staticjenn
This is a quote from the book 'The Perks of Being a Wallflower'....

We got this down to an art form...wallflowers.

Aside from that, some of us have a duty to uphold. Those walls would come tumbling down, if our backs were not there to provide support. We are the pillars of strength, you know.
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So, for example, standing still, is conductive to thinking, and our thoughts contribute to actions/results that may be beneficial in life, in some form or fashion, even as a wall support column!

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