Reply
Thread Tools
Cultures which accept pedophilia? None
Old 02-04-2010, 11:00 PM   #1
Mogura
Core Member [182%]
I am not the droid you're looking for...
MBTI: INFJ
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,285
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
You know there are cultures where kids are allowed to run around naked, right?

And there are cultures where pedophiles are allowed to run around free, sadly...

Mogura is offline
Reply With Quote

Old 02-04-2010, 11:03 PM   #2
Synamon
Core Member [465%]
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18,614
 

  Originally Posted by Mogura
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
And there are cultures where pedophiles are allowed to run around free, sadly...

Instead of a vague platitude, would you care to name those cultures where paedophilia is acceptable?

Synamon is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2010, 11:05 PM   #3
Kisai
Core Member [403%]
Mad, bad, and dangerous to know.
MBTI: XXXX
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,144
 

  Originally Posted by Mogura
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
And there are cultures where pedophiles are allowed to run around free, sadly...

There are cultures where pedophilia isn't a demonized thing. I'm reading a book on how an American scientist went to New Guinea and was delighted that the indigenous peoples didn't have these taboos while he worked on curing their diseases. One wonders whose culture is 'correct' in these matters.

Kisai is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 02:21 AM   #4
INTJDownUnder
Member [04%]
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened." (Mark Twain)
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 164
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
There are cultures where pedophilia isn't a demonized thing. I'm reading a book on how an American scientist went to New Guinea and was delighted that the indigenous peoples didn't have these taboos while he worked on curing their diseases. One wonders whose culture is 'correct' in these matters.

Delighted? Not intrigued in an academic sense, but delighted? Delighted?

Sounds like the American scientist you mention may have had a sexual predilection for children himself...

INTJDownUnder is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 12:14 AM   #5
Kisai
Core Member [403%]
Mad, bad, and dangerous to know.
MBTI: XXXX
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,144
 

  Originally Posted by INTJDownUnder
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Delighted? Not intrigued in an academic sense, but delighted? Delighted?

Sounds like the American scientist you mention may have had a sexual predilection for children himself...

Yes. Delighted as in 'indulged himself'. I am talking about Nobel Prize winner Daniel Carleton Gajdusek.

Kisai is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 01:19 AM   #6
Scatterbrane
Member [12%]
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 514
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
There are cultures where pedophilia isn't a demonized thing.

Good. It's not the desire that's the problem, lots of adults have that... problem? It's child molestation that is problematic. Although, I have a sneaking suspicion that's what you're really talking about...

Scatterbrane is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 03:10 AM   #7
INTJDownUnder
Member [04%]
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened." (Mark Twain)
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 164
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Yes. Delighted as in 'indulged himself'. I am talking about Nobel Prize winner Daniel Carleton Gajdusek.

He might be a Nobel Prize winner but that doesn't mean his intentions were benign. The Noble Prize means is that he's gifted and made a noteworthy scientific contribution. It doesn't mean he cannot be a paedophile. Take Roman Polanski for instance. He's a paedophile but he's also an artistic genius, has won many awards and is in the upper echelon of his field.

Is this scientist a paedophile? I don't know. But to me it's a cause of concern that he 'took delight in' or 'was indulged by' an encounter with a society which had no taboo against paedophilia. Major red flag. Remember this scientist is a Westerner and was brought up in a society where most of us believe paedophilia is a twisted, evil act of perversion. If he wasn't disgusted on some level then it's a worry.

INTJDownUnder is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 05:08 PM   #8
Kisai
Core Member [403%]
Mad, bad, and dangerous to know.
MBTI: XXXX
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16,144
 

  Originally Posted by INTJDownUnder
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
He might be a Nobel Prize winner but that doesn't mean his intentions were benign. The Noble Prize means is that he's gifted and made a noteworthy scientific contribution. It doesn't mean he cannot be a paedophile. Take Roman Polanski for instance. He's a paedophile but he's also an artistic genius, has won many awards and is in the upper echelon of his field.

I'm not using the Nobel Prize as a license or even a smidgen of an indication of ethical behavior. I'm using it to show that this man has some notoriety.

Roman Polanski raped a 13 year old girl. I saw the grown woman in question give testimony about it. She was exploited and abused. Gajdusek went to a culture where men and boys regularly give each other fellatio, was 'delighted' and normally went from place to place surrounded by throngs of young boys. Thirty of these boys he adopted and brought back to America where he oversaw their education and even helped one buy a house. He did not exploit or abuse (in my opinion) these children. Their parents gave the boys to his care willingly as far as I can tell. Most were loyal to him, but apparently he PO'ed one of them and was reported to the FBI and plea bargained to a year in prison.

Kisai is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 07:36 AM   #9
INTJDownUnder
Member [04%]
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened." (Mark Twain)
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 164
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm not using the Nobel Prize as a license or even a smidgen of an indication of ethical behavior. I'm using it to show that this man has some notoriety.

OK, my bad.

 
Their parents gave the boys to his care willingly as far as I can tell. Most were loyal to him, but apparently he PO'ed one of them and was reported to the FBI and plea bargained to a year in prison.

PO'ed?

What was the charge the FBI booked him for?

INTJDownUnder is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 09:36 PM   #10
trader7891
New Member [01%]
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 67
 
Just a food for thought, not that I'm a paedophile or anything, I despise them by the way.

But just a thought, is it right that we 'judge' these people? Its just the way our culture and laws raised us? Like eating dog meat? Some people scrunch their face at that, but in cultures like China, its just chicken.

And while many may be okay with eating beef, other cultures view beef as a sacred animal.

I mean, I don't know, shoot them for all I care, just a thought.
trader7891 is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 09:43 PM   #11
Vagrant
Core Member [162%]
Bananaphone. Boop boop boo-doo-ba-doop!
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,480
 

  Originally Posted by trader7891
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Just a food for thought, not that I'm a paedophile or anything, I despise them by the way.

But just a thought, is it right that we 'judge' these people? Its just the way our culture and laws raised us? Like eating dog meat? Some people scrunch their face at that, but in cultures like China, its just chicken.

And while many may be okay with eating beef, other cultures view beef as a sacred animal.

I mean, I don't know, shoot them for all I care, just a thought.

I feel kind of the same way -- many times it's a result of the way our culture portrays youth. Youth is considered hot. It's considered sex. Age is not. Is it much of a surprise that some people ended up being attracted to those younger than the legal limit?

Vagrant is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 09:50 PM   #12
TheLastMohican
Core Member [189%]
MBTI: ENTJ
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,570
 

  Originally Posted by Vagrant
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I feel kind of the same way -- many times it's a result of the way our culture portrays youth. Youth is considered hot. It's considered sex. Age is not. Is it much of a surprise that some people ended up being attracted to those younger than the legal limit?

Most people find hallmarks of fertility attractive. Those happen to be present in youth, and less so as people age past their primes, but that does not mean that youthfulness is the deciding factor. Pedophilia is an attraction to those who have not yet developed the physical features that most people find sexually attractive.

TheLastMohican is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 10:21 PM   #13
Rohsiph
Member [29%]
MBTI: xxxx
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,196
 

  Originally Posted by trader7891
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Just a food for thought, not that I'm a paedophile or anything, I despise them by the way.

But just a thought, is it right that we 'judge' these people? Its just the way our culture and laws raised us? Like eating dog meat? Some people scrunch their face at that, but in cultures like China, its just chicken.

And while many may be okay with eating beef, other cultures view beef as a sacred animal.

I mean, I don't know, shoot them for all I care, just a thought.

It worries me that it's so common to feel the need to begin and end with statements as you have when discussing pedophilia, among other "taboos."

Cultural relativism notwithstanding, I tend to think immediate judgment that it is highly criminal to even look at pictures (taken by others, in the past--damage, if any, already done) of post-pubescent women / men who happen to fall below the prescribed numerical age of consent is problematic.

And I wish it wasn't such a touchy issue, that we could get to the bottom of it minus all the "Oh ho ho, not that I'm a pedophile or anything" language. The extent to which nearly everything to do with the topic is criminalized in the US comes dangerously close to policing persons for having certain thoughts or ideas. Fortunately (as far as I know) it has never gone that far, that someone was effectively convicted only for thinking and not acting, but if it ever does that might just be a motivation for me to become a political activist.

  Originally Posted by TheLastMohican
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Most people find hallmarks of fertility attractive. Those happen to be present in youth, and less so as people age past their primes, but that does not mean that youthfulness is the deciding factor. Pedophilia is an attraction to those who have not yet developed the physical features that most people find sexually attractive.

The best definitions I find seperate pre- and post-pubescense--in a way, the necessity for fertility. The problem is folk perception seems to often define it as "anything below the legal age of consent."

Added a few hours later: mormeguil is right about the deeper moral problem regarding pedophilia itself; the problem I'm considering is more a self-censorship issue in regards to how we discuss the deeper problem.

Rohsiph is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 11:31 PM   #14
Still Standing
Core Member [138%]
MBTI: Isfp
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,533
 

  Originally Posted by trader7891
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
But just a thought, is it right that we 'judge' these people? Its just the way our culture and laws raised us? Like eating dog meat? Some people scrunch their face at that, but in cultures like China, its just chicken.

Making any person have sex with you either forcefully or through manipulation is disrespectful and a violation of their integrity, no matter the age, gender or cultural background of said person. The problem with pedophiles is not their sexual attraction towards children but their acting out on it and the means they use to achieve their goal. The fact that it is socially acceptable in a particular culture to abuse a child's innocence and use them as a sexual object does not make it any less barbaric and disregardful of human life.

Still Standing is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:20 AM   #15
mormeguil
Member [32%]
MBTI: Intj
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,295
 
The real problem is that it's hard to know when a child is truly consenting. If a culture does not think consent is needed for sexual relationship. It might be subjectively immoral, but I strongly believe that any culture where someone does not have control over they're own body is not one that makes sure it's population is happy.

We also face the same problem concerning zoophilia. It's hard to tell if an animal is truly willing.
mormeguil is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:35 AM   #16
Yhor
Member [24%]
MBTI: InTj
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 987
 
My mother legally married in the US at the age of 14. The laws and taboo we have now is a recent ruleset; not a culture clash, but conditioning by certain groups.

I'm not advocating a 30 year old man marrying a girl under the current age of consent, just to make that clear. Society has changed so much in the past 30 years, the 'sheltering' of children into 'adulthood', not giving them the responsibility to make responsible choices only strengthens most people's view that the age of 18, or maybe higher soon, is a reasonable age.

Not to mention that in the law's eye, you are breaking the law by -not- sheltering your child from many conversations and education regarding sexual responsibility.
Yhor is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 02:09 AM   #17
Alsaru
Member [02%]
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 117
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I'm reading a book on how an American scientist went to New Guinea and was delighted that the indigenous peoples didn't have these taboos while he worked on curing their diseases. One wonders whose culture is 'correct' in these matters.

If that community really exists, instead of sitting here and writing we better send some troops there. And don't tell me about the genocide because I will tell you about Iraq, Serbia, Hiroshima and so on.

---------- Post added 02-11-2010 at 09:11 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by mormeguil
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The real problem is that it's hard to know when a child is truly consenting. If a culture does not think consent is needed for sexual relationship. It might be subjectively immoral, but I strongly believe that any culture where someone does not have control over they're own body is not one that makes sure it's population is happy.

We also face the same problem concerning zoophilia. It's hard to tell if an animal is truly willing.

It is not hard to know that the psychic of every child on this earth is the same everywhere, no matter the culture or of the norms of morality.

Alsaru is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 02:22 AM   #18
Nemesis
Core Member [352%]
Shhhh
MBTI: XXXX
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,114
 

  Originally Posted by Kisai
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
There are cultures where pedophilia isn't a demonized thing. I'm reading a book on how an American scientist went to New Guinea and was delighted that the indigenous peoples didn't have these taboos while he worked on curing their diseases. One wonders whose culture is 'correct' in these matters.

I think the culture you may be referring to is the Keraki. As soon as young males begin to show the first signs of puberty, they have a big celebration then the boys are confined in a longhouse for up to a year where the elder males come by and have their way with them. As in most cultures who have similar practices (for boys and girls), these are considered rites of passage from childhood to adulthood. Although I can't remember the name of the people, there's a group in Africa in which young males perform fellatio on older males because they believe that semen contains the essence of manhood, and that ingesting it increases one's prowess as they enter adulthood. This one is also practiced in parts of the Southern United States and most of Saskatchewan... kidding.

The thing is though, this is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is, by definition, an erotic sexual preference towards prepubescent children. That is, pedophilia is a stable pattern of erotic preference. The cultures in which such things occur have utilitarian (from their perspective) spiritual or social purposes for these acts that are not strictly erotic leanings. In general, the adults who perform these acts only do so in the context of the rites. In fact, it's very difficult to try and slot these acts into western definitions. To muddy up the waters even more, the kids/teens who go through these rites rarely show signs of trauma or distress. To them, it's simply a cultural norm.

Of course, we cannot be expected to observe these things and not be grossed out, but the perspective is much different on the other side. I'm not sure we can claim one side is "right" and the other is "wrong". I'm really not sure if we can really push past a relativistic perspective on these things.

Nemesis is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 03:17 AM   #19
INTJDownUnder
Member [04%]
"I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them have never happened." (Mark Twain)
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 164
 

  Originally Posted by Nemesis
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The thing is though, this is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is, by definition, an erotic sexual preference towards prepubescent children. That is, pedophilia is a stable pattern of erotic preference.

I think for what you say to be true you'd need to prove that none of those elderly men were sexually aroused. Which would be a difficult sell.

I think it's still paedophila. Just paedophilia wrapped up in long standing culture and tradition.

I don't think paedophilia needs to be a stable pattern of behaviour. If I manipulate a young child into a secluded spot and rape them, I'd be a paedophile. In the legal sense if not in a more general sense too. Even if that was the only time I did that and I was normally sexually attracted to women.

INTJDownUnder is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 06:08 AM   #20
zibber
Core Member [484%]
 
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 19,380
 
I want to explain why 90% of this thread is mindnumbing ethnocentrism, but I'm afraid I'll get jumped by eight rabid westerners.
zibber is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 08:20 AM   #21
Nemesis
Core Member [352%]
Shhhh
MBTI: XXXX
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,114
 

  Originally Posted by INTJDownUnder
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I think for what you say to be true you'd need to prove that none of those elderly men were sexually aroused. Which would be a difficult sell.

I think it's still paedophila. Just paedophilia wrapped up in long standing culture and tradition.

Well, yes... the men were likely aroused. That tends to be a required precursor to busting a nut. But, under the psychological definition of pedophilia, these acts are not pedophilic, regardless of whatever personal definition you may have. The presence of a stable trend of behaviour and sexual arousal by prepubescent children is required. Even the legal definitions of pedophilia are not as cut and dry as one would like to believe, and the legal definitions do differ by country. As Zibber pointed out, much of this discussion is very much rooted in an ethnocentric bias.


  Originally Posted by INTJDownUnder
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I don't think paedophilia needs to be a stable pattern of behaviour. If I manipulate a young child into a secluded spot and rape them, I'd be a paedophile. In the legal sense if not in a more general sense too. Even if that was the only time I did that and I was normally sexually attracted to women.

No. You would be labeled a child molester. Pedophilia and child molestation are mutually exclusive things, although they are often related. Again, the (legal and psychological) definitions of these things, even here in the west, are no simple matter.

Within cultures such as the Karaki, these rites are not a matter of manipulation and rape... they are the standard accepted societal norm. As I noted earlier, the boys who go through these ceremonies show no signs of trauma as a result. To them, it's just a rite of passage. Despite your speculation that these are all dirty old men trying to get a piece, the evidence observed within the culture seems to suggest otherwise. To them, this is a spiritual matter... not a sexual one. Keep in mind, that western forms of spirituality are somewhat unique in the sense that combining sexuality with spirituality is taboo. Even in non-western religions like Hinduism (and Islam to a lesser extent), sexuality and spirituality often go hand in hand, although there are distinctions between the two. Again, the revulsion we experience when viewing parcitices in cultures such as the Karaki are the result of an ethnocentric bias rooted in where we draw the line.

Also, if you want to get really technical, these would be acts closer to our definition of ephebophilia, not pedophilia (although still falling short of the required stable pattern of behaviour and arousal). These may seem like semantic quibbles, but that's exactly my point. Trying to shoehorn practices from other cultures into our own paradigms and definitions often falls flat.

As cringe-worthy as we (myself very much included) find these practices, it's very important to realize that our unease is rooted in a cultural bias. Even trying to define such acts within our frame of reference is extremely difficult. Because of that, I again would argue that we are forced into accepting some measure of relativism.

Nemesis is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 09:05 AM   #22
Weber
Member [29%]
Life is a tragedy for those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,169
 

  Originally Posted by trader7891
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
But just a thought, is it right that we 'judge' these people? Its just the way our culture and laws raised us? Like eating dog meat? Some people scrunch their face at that, but in cultures like China, its just chicken.

And while many may be okay with eating beef, other cultures view beef as a sacred animal.
.

If human sacrifice were considered a sacred ritual (as it has been in many religions all over the world) should we respect this and have no issue with it continuing?

  Originally Posted by mormeguil
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The real problem is that it's hard to know when a child is truly consenting. If a culture does not think consent is needed for sexual relationship. It might be subjectively immoral, but I strongly believe that any culture where someone does not have control over they're own body is not one that makes sure it's population is happy.

We also face the same problem concerning zoophilia. It's hard to tell if an animal is truly willing.

You're right; it can be hard to tell when a child is truly consenting, but that's why we have laws to ensure a person cannot give consent until they have reached a certain age. Some individuals may be mature enough to give it before this legal age, but all in all I think it's preferable to have the age limit a little too high than a little too low
Interestingly, where I live (Denmark) bestiality is completely legal as long as the involved animal isn't "harmed", but what exactly that means can be hard to assess in an animal.

  Originally Posted by zibber
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I want to explain why 90% of this thread is mindnumbing ethnocentrism, but I'm afraid I'll get jumped by eight rabid westerners.

It would be great if you could actually explain instead of making an unsupported statement and setting up a strawman of aggression.

  Originally Posted by Nemesis
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Well, yes... the men were likely aroused. That tends to be a required precursor to busting a nut. But, under the psychological definition of pedophilia, these acts are not pedophilic, regardless of whatever personal definition you may have. The presence of a stable trend of behaviour and sexual arousal by prepubescent children is required. Even the legal definitions of pedophilia are not as cut and dry as one would like to believe, and the legal definitions do differ by country. As Zibber pointed out, much of this discussion is very much rooted in an ethnocentric bias.

I see, so these traditions have no root whatsoever in a general sexual attraction towards children in the ones who have created, developed and perpetuated these rituals through centuries? Hard to definitely determine, of course, but it sounds unlikely to me.

  Originally Posted by Nemesis
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Again, the revulsion we experience when viewing parcitices in cultures such as the Karaki are the result of an ethnocentric bias rooted in where we draw the line.

If by "ethnocentric bias" you mean an opinion founded on modern psychology telling us when a human being is emotionally capable of dealing with the implications of sexual intercourse, then yes.

Weber is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 10:11 AM   #23
Zsych
Core Member [383%]
MBTI: XNTX
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 15,342
 
I wonder if pedophilia is referring mainly to pre-adolescents here.

There are parts of Japan where the age of consent is 13. Can a 13 year old give consent, as much as an 18 year old... I'd almost think yes. Perhaps a 13 year old would be easier to pressure or manipulate, but a good manipulator can manipulate people much older than 18 also.... may as well have complicated tests to prove your maturity and ability to give consent
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I definitely know at least one married girl who is 25, and who I would never think deserved the right to be making her own decisions... She has this massive little girl air, and comprehension that seems to be about that level.

I remember reading some danish research to suggest that in cases where (non-violent) pedophilic relationships were not discovered and participants grew to adulthood, there seemed to be little negative effect and the child and adult often maintained a positive relationship. I think there may be an issue here in how children are raised in different parts of the world, and also in cases where the action is caught... how the child and adult are treated afterward.
In a non-violent relationship assuming the child wasn't averse to such actions by an adult, I would assume that the negative reaction of respected adults, convincing the child that an experience he/she enjoyed with a person he/she likes and respects, should be considered very unpleasant and harmful... might cause confusion. Unfortunately emotions are messy things, and messed up emotions lead to strange behavior. In other words, I personally think that mishandling by parents after a discovery, might be part of what causes problems in cases of pedophilic relationships.
(Not to say that there aren't pedophilic relationships that aren't genuinely harmful to children, and I think that even without physical violence, use of force or coercion would cause problems... but I personally think that the effect on self-esteem of such an experience should be similar to that of being randomly beaten as a child)
Zsych is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 10:11 AM   #24
Nemesis
Core Member [352%]
Shhhh
MBTI: XXXX
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,114
 

  Originally Posted by Weber
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I see, so these traditions have no root whatsoever in a general sexual attraction towards children in the ones who have created, developed and perpetuated these rituals through centuries? Hard to definitely determine, of course, but it sounds unlikely to me.

Based on what? Your assumption?

Also, it looks strangely like you are trying to call the culture or tradition itself pedophilic. This doesn't work... only individuals can be labeled as pedophiles. As I have mentioned before, the older males that have sex with the boys in this rite only do so within the context of the ritual. Apart from the context of the rite itself, sex between the older men and young boys has not been observed as being common at all. Thus, these individuals cannot be labeled as pedophilic, even by our own definition.

  Originally Posted by Weber
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
If by "ethnocentric bias" you mean an opinion founded on modern psychology telling us when a human being is emotionally capable of dealing with the implications of sexual intercourse, then yes.

Interesting that you mention modern psychology, because the field does recognize that there is a great deal of flux between cultures, and that culture does have a significant impact on one's psychology. Even the DSM-IV-TR recognizes the importance of cultural context in labeling anything. This is why something like a diagnosis of GID (Gender Identity Disorder) cannot be given to a person whose culture accepts third-gender categories (like the Hijra). Within that cultural context, this pattern of behaviour does not represent a "disorder". In fact, modern psychology is extremely stringent on recognizing unique cultural and societal norms as a parameter for what is considered normal patterns of psychological adjustment.

And, as I'll outline for a third time, these boys show no signs of trauma as a result of this tradition. Why? Because the context of the tradition, to the Keraki, is spiritual, not sexual.

Nemesis is offline
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 11:34 AM   #25
trader7891
New Member [01%]
MBTI: INTJ
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 67
 

  Originally Posted by Rohsiph
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
It worries me that it's so common to feel the need to begin and end with statements as you have when discussing pedophilia, among other "taboos."



Ahh, my apologies, I just felt the need to declare my stance that I'm not nor do I care to be associated as one of those people. But thank you, will try and paraphrase such that it doesn't seem to obvious that I'm still actually, a bit touchy over sensitive topics, too much government repression on the internet I'm afraid

  Originally Posted by Still Standing
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Making any person have sex with you either forcefully or through manipulation is disrespectful and a violation of their integrity, no matter the age, gender or cultural background of said person. The problem with pedophiles is not their sexual attraction towards children but their acting out on it and the means they use to achieve their goal. The fact that it is socially acceptable in a particular culture to abuse a child's innocence and use them as a sexual object does not make it any less barbaric and disregardful of human life.

Agreed, if its forced, then yes, I reemphasize, shoot those perverts. However, if its consensual, then when do we draw the line, a 30 year old men 'woos' a 13 year old girl, she says she's in love and it was all consensual, and that man is tried for statutory rape, as he would been in my country. Jail time plus caning.

Would a child still be considered innocent, if at that point of time in their life, they felt what happened to them was beautiful, even if by our standards it was sick and twisted? And what if the man says he loves her and will marry her? Technically in the eyes of the law, he's a paedophile, but from the ground level, he may be truly in love withher, and she with him, is that a crime then?

  Originally Posted by Weber
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
If human sacrifice were considered a sacred ritual (as it has been in many religions all over the world) should we respect this and have no issue with it continuing?

Well, honestly, and really honestly if you ask me, I would say that if the human sacrifice was of a willing one, we should respect it even if we do not like it. People have been blessed with the gift of freewill, and that is the only thing we have left. "Human Sacrifice" aka sucides is something that we can try to talk someone out of, but ultimately, if they're gonna jump, they're gonna jump.

But if you say someone is dragged to the ritual, and doesn't want to, there is an issue with it, and not respect it.

If however the act of human sacrifice comes at a cost of others, then no, we should not condone it. (Terrorism in the name of islam)

trader7891 is offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, Myers-Briggs, and MBTI are trademarks or registered trademarks of the
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Trust in the United States and other countries.