[curiousgeorge01]

Maybe it's an INTJ thing where closeness is a pre-requisite for the first time? I think I would care for my first but not subsequent ones. Though it wouldn't have to be a deep connection for my first, just a close enough one.

[Zephyranthes]

	Originally Posted by RandomLurker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If Billy gives up now and just settles for anyone then he really did waste the last 30 years.

This is only valid if not giving up would help him in achieving this goal. It won't. He's delaying the inevitable.

[Selene]

	Originally Posted by Kratos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A uhhh friend of mine is a 30 year old virgin. My friend, let's call him Billy, has held out for someone whom he feels deeply connected with. It hasn't happened yet and he's concerned. What's a love shy guy to do?

It's my humble suggestion to Billy that if he truly wants to experience earth shattering and orgasmic sex firsthand with someone he feels emotionally connected with, it is then in his best interest to stop holding out and lose the v card soon because intercourse is usually awkward for the first timer. For benefit of the future love of his life, better start practicing.

*ducks*

[Vermillion]

Hire a hooker to teach Billy to have sex like a pro, then he'll have all kinds of kickass sexual confidence.
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[AnnaMolly]

Wow, I find most of these suggestions horrific. Have you people never heard about personal values or integrity?
Also, I hate this "omg you must be good the first time when it's important" BS pressure that's put on men. Would you give the same advice to a female 30 year old virgin?


Tell Billy that there are women out there like him, who'd very much appreciate his idealism, values and virginity. He should not give up on what's important to him. But he might become more adamant in looking for it, i.e. maybe trying to go out more, meet more people, even though that's quite the nasty idea for an introvert (I know what I'm talking about here
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).

I'm 23 and female, but otherwise in the same position as Billy. And only attracted to guys like Billy, by the way.

[MechanicalSun]

	Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hire a hooker to teach Billy to have sex like a pro, then he'll have all kinds of kickass sexual confidence. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

+

Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Wow, I find most of these suggestions horrific. Have you people never heard about personal values or integrity? Also, I hate this "omg you must be good the first time when it's important" BS pressure that's put on men. Would you give the same advice to a female 30 year old virgin? Tell Billy that there are women out there like him, who'd very much appreciate his idealism, values and virginity. He should not give up on what's important to him. But he might become more adamant in looking for it, i.e. maybe trying to go out more, meet more people, even though that's quite the nasty idea for an introvert (I know what I'm talking about here To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ). I'm 23 and female, but otherwise in the same position as Billy. And only attracted to guys like Billy, by the way.

Highly contrasting opinions!

However Billy as confused as you may be, it's clear that you should stop idealizing sex.
If Willy is concerned, must be for reason.

Go with uncle Charlie, Billy! He knows best.

[AnnaMolly]

	Originally Posted by MechanicalSun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	it's clear that you should stop idealizing sex.

"It's clear"? How come?
Stop trying to force your (mostly non-existing) values on someone else.

[Nostalgia]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm so confused. Why lament lack of sex when you should be lamenting lack of deep connection?

That is what I was thinking too...
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[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Selene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's my humble suggestion to Billy that if he truly wants to experience earth shattering and orgasmic sex firsthand with someone he feels emotionally connected with, it is then in his best interest to stop holding out and lose the v card soon because intercourse is usually awkward for the first timer. For benefit of the future love of his life, better start practicing.

Agreed. There is no such thing as earth-shattering sex the first time. It's not like in the movies. Whether you're completely in love with the person or not, the first few times are stressful, uncomfortable, awkward. Both partners aren't really in sync or attuned to one another, and neither of them know what they like or what they need the other person to do to feel pleasure. And for the girl, it usually hurts!

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you people never heard about personal values or integrity?

Having sex with a person you like but don't love doesn't make you dishonest or corrupted. What do you think of virgin counterfeiters or burglars?

[Vermillion]

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Having sex with a person you like but don't love doesn't make you dishonest or corrupted. What do you think of virgin counterfeiters or burglars?

What's a virgin burglar? Is that like a rapist who goes after virgins?
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[mrhat]

Sure its your friend
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But idk its up to him. All I know is that I have learned not to be too idealistic about relationships. A lot of people are lazy, don't think for themselves, aren't ambitious, don't have a ton of self respect, etc. That is why it is best to not look for the perfect person, because you'll most likely end up disappointed. If he wants to get the deed done, which he should at 30, then get his ass out there in social situations.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What's a virgin burglar? Is that like a rapist who goes after virgins? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


virgin: a person who has not experienced sexual intercourse

burglar: one who commits burglary (i.e. who enters a building or other premises with the intent to commit theft)

virgin burglar: a person who commits burglary and has not experienced sexual intercourse

[AnnaMolly]

Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Agreed. There is no such thing as earth-shattering sex the first time. It's not like in the movies. Whether you're completely in love with the person or not, the first few times are stressful, uncomfortable, awkward. Both partners aren't really in sync or attuned to one another, and neither of them know what they like or what they need the other person to do to feel pleasure. And for the girl, it usually hurts!

And that's why it makes no sense for him to sleep with lots of other women, because the first time with a new partner is always gonna be a bit awkward at first, since, as you say, one is not yet attuned to one another.

So the idea "sleep around, so when you actually at some point meet a woman you're in love with, you'll be able to give it to her real good" makes very little sense.

Either you're saying it's near impossible for him to meet a woman he really likes, then the question is whether he might be fine with having casual sex for the rest of his life.
Or, you're saying, you might likely meet her, but you should still practice in advance, so that she won't run away
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in that case, I put it to you that the woman in question was not really a good mate to begin with.

If a woman really likes him and is compatible to him, she's going to be understanding and won't judge him on his ""performance"" on an act that should be intimate and as far away from the idea of a "performance" as can be.

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Having sex with a person you like but don't love doesn't make you dishonest or corrupted. What do you think of virgin counterfeiters or burglars?

Strawman fallacy. I never said that virgins are morally perfect, or anything close to that. Of course virgins can be humungous assholes. You're trying to imply I said something I didn't, to argue against something I actually said. Doesn't work.

What I said that his personal values involve having his first sexual experience with someone he's deeply connected with. So to hire a hooker or otherwise "just get it over with" would infringe his personal values. The fact that in this thread these suggestions are nevertheless given out as if his values meant nothing, led me to ask the question you quoted.

	Originally Posted by mrhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	All I know is that I have learned not to be too idealistic about relationships. A lot of people are lazy, don't think for themselves, aren't ambitious, don't have a ton of self respect, etc. That is why it is best to not look for the perfect person, because you'll most likely end up disappointed.

So you're fine to be in a relationship or have sex with a person who doesn't think for themselves?
I can hardly believe that someone would actually consider that a better option than continuing to look for someone who does think for themselves.

	Originally Posted by mrhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If he wants to get the deed done, which he should at 30, then get his ass out there in social situations.

Why?
Because you say so?

[Income]

Just fly to Amsterdam, visit a coffeshop and smoke some weed, then go to red light district and find a nice whore, have sex with her, after that you can enjoy the great city and travel back home when you feel like it. I think the best time to go to Amsterdam is in the spring, about now would be a perfect time to go. Some things can change a persons perspective on things, I think that my advice is perfect because it will probably change your perspective. You might be a different person when you come home.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And that's why it makes no sense for him to sleep with lots of other women, because the first time with a new partner is always gonna be a bit awkward at first, since, as you say, one is not yet attuned to one another. So the idea "sleep around, so when you actually at some point meet a woman you're in love with, you'll be able to give it to her real good" makes very little sense.

There is middle ground between waiting for "the one" and sleeping around. He could find an understanding "friend with benefits" who is perhaps in a similar boat, and stick with that person and learn stuff with her until either of them meet someone they want to be in a relationship with.

Either you're saying it's near impossible for him to meet a woman he really likes, then the question is whether he might be fine with having casual sex for the rest of his life. Or, you're saying, you might likely meet her, but you should still practice in advance, so that she won't run away To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in that case, I put it to you that the woman in question was not really a good mate to begin with.

No. If he meets a woman he really likes, there's a better chance that things will work out if both of them have acquired some skill and self-knowledge in the sexual department. A student-teacher relationship in the bedroom would suggest a potentially unequal relationship and power issues in other departments as well.

	If a woman really likes him and is compatible to him, she's going to be understanding and won't judge him on his ""performance"" on an act that should be intimate and as far away from the idea of a "performance" as can be.

It's not just a matter of performance but also a matter of sexual compatibility, which can't be determined if the guy still hasn't had the chance to figure out what he likes giving and receiving, how and how often, etc.

	What I said that his personal values involve having his first sexual experience with someone he's deeply connected with. So to hire a hooker or otherwise "just get it over with" would infringe his personal values. The fact that in this thread these suggestions are nevertheless given out as if his values meant nothing, led me to ask the question you quoted.

Again, it doesn't have to involve a hooker or "getting over with it". But perhaps wanting a deep connection for his first time (which he is still struggling to find), while valid, might not be realistic given his age and the modern society we live in, which doesn't value virginity so much.

On a personal note, I'm 43 and have yet to find someone who truly gets me and who I'd want to spent most of my free time with. But at least the handful of FWB relationships I've had in my 20s and 30s have allowed me to figure out what I like and how to please a partner in bed, so I won't appear to be clueless if I do ever meet "the one".

[Lilie]

I'm not a virgin but I might as well be. The idea of seeking out some random so I'll be in top form for fucking when I meet someone I actually like makes me feel queasy.

I don't go for the idea of sex as a performance either. I've had sex like that, all focused on what people were doing and how good they did it, and it sucked. I'd rather just not have sex.

[RandomLurker]

	Originally Posted by Zephyranthes To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is only valid if not giving up would help him in achieving this goal. It won't. He's delaying the inevitable.

That really depends on what the goal is. If the goal is to just have sex with anyone then yes, this doesn't help him achieve that goal. What if the goal is to stand by whatever principles carried him this far and hold out to find a great person while recognizing that there's a possibility that person may not ever cross his path?

Maybe we should let Billy tell us what his goal is.

[Beezlebub]

DO IT DUDE!!!!

Sex is like riding a bike. The more you do it the more comfortable you are doing it, and once you got it down you never forget it.

Just go out and smash random sluts. They're pretty easy to find at bars near closing, wearing skimpy clothes sitting alone with a drink that looks like it didn't do damn near a good enough job of drowning her daddy issues. Spit some game, take her home, and stab her with your meat sword.

Plus it feels good man.

[IotaNull]

	Originally Posted by RandomLurker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If Billy gives up now and just settles for anyone then he really did waste the last 30 years.

True, but only because he's wasted the last 30 years no matter what he does. It's already lost time, and there's no sense in throwing good time after bad.

	Originally Posted by stoopidkitty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm 25, super shy and awkward too, but even I've managed to have sex with a few ladies. I never initiated it either, and I'm far from being a hawt studmuffin.

BS. And I'm pointing this out not because of some personal crusade, but because one of the least helpful things that can be done on this topic (short of deliberate sabotage) is to offer false hope that doing nothing is a viable strategy for those of us that aren't physical demigods.

As for my advice: Billy needs to find something better to occupy his time. If he were going to lose his virginity, it would already have happened over a decade ago -- he's "missed the boat". And even if I'm wrong, actively pursuing it certainly isn't the most effective approach anyway.

[Zephyranthes]

I'm kind of amused that people think the primary reason behind him being a virgin is not giving in to sleeping with her. It's very likely she doesn't want to sleep with him. If guys could sleep with whomever they wanted with relative ease, most of this subforum probably wouldn't exist.

---------- Post added 05-09-2012 at 08:14 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	BS. And I'm pointing this out not because of some personal crusade, but because one of the least helpful things that can be done on this topic (short of deliberate sabotage) is to offer false hope that doing nothing is a viable strategy for those of us that aren't physical demigods.

Maybe your theories aren't so right if something like this could slip through. :P Maybe she's crazy! Maybe he's an exception or really tall or something!

[Ghostwheel]

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be able to derive confidence about my sexual ability from being with someone who's being paid to feed me bullshit and who wouldn't be there at all if it wasn't for that.

Prostitution is legal in certain counties in Nevada, and there are a number of brothels there. I would suspect that some of their clients are first-timers, and if he visits with "initiation" in mind, they'll set him up with a girl that can show him the ropes, as it were, without bullshitting him.

The obstacle here is he'll have to overcome his embarrassment and explain his situation to the brothel madam so that she can find someone compatible for him.

[Beezlebub]

	Originally Posted by RandomLurker
	If Billy gives up now and just settles for anyone then he really did waste the last 30 years.

You've put pussy on a pedestal. Sex, and certainly not vagina, is not special and it doesn't matter who you have sex with as long as it isn't a swamphog or a person with diseases.

Quit living in a fairy tale. Sex is sex. It's a gross biological function no different than eating or defecating. It just happens to feel really good and if you score with a hot girl there's a lot more bragging rights in it than what you ate or the quality of your morning stool.

[RandomLurker]

Originally Posted by Beezlebub To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You've put pussy on a pedestal. Sex, and certainly not vagina, is not special and it doesn't matter who you have sex with as long as it isn't a swamphog or a person with diseases. Quit living in a fairy tale. Sex is sex. It's a gross biological function no different than eating or defecating. It just happens to feel really good and if you score with a hot girl there's a lot more bragging rights in it than what you ate or the quality of your morning stool.

Yup. Only your worldview is valid.

[Osmobot]

I think you guys are ignoring the fact that there is a lot of gray area between "just some piece of ass", and the love of someone's life. I find it hard to believe that Billy has gone 30 years without meeting a nice woman that he respects and cares about, who he feels comfortable enough around to open himself up to. That's who he should be looking for.

[Kratos]

Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Wow, I find most of these suggestions horrific. Have you people never heard about personal values or integrity? Also, I hate this "omg you must be good the first time when it's important" BS pressure that's put on men. Would you give the same advice to a female 30 year old virgin? Tell Billy that there are women out there like him, who'd very much appreciate his idealism, values and virginity. He should not give up on what's important to him. But he might become more adamant in looking for it, i.e. maybe trying to go out more, meet more people, even though that's quite the nasty idea for an introvert (I know what I'm talking about here To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ). I'm 23 and female, but otherwise in the same position as Billy. And only attracted to guys like Billy, by the way.

Wow... there has been a lot of great perspectives thrown out there(Thank you all) but this has struck a major chord with me. Thank you. I wish this breed of people weren't so hard to find.

The emotion does exist, I felt it briefly.

The level of communication was amazing. The intricacies of our interactions were beautiful. It was a feeling of intense and mutual understanding. This is what I crave. This is worth dying for.

... I'm sooooooo fucked.