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Old 04-09-2012, 04:29 AM   #1
AlfredSchnittke
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What. The. Fuck.

I don't listen to music really, and I did some research and found out this song is very popular.

The song blatantly glorifies school shootings. Indeed, not even for such reasons as being bullied or ostracized, no, but simply because a a kid couldn't afford, or his parents wouldn't by him the newest version of some stupid, trendy shoes.

Holy shit. Has society become this destitute? Such social messages make me long to live in Hitler's Germany...

Yet when I asked those on the streets listening, "so, you think that Columbine was a very funny, or cool affair?" They say I must be "evil" or "fucked up" for asking such a question. When I point out they are listening to a song glorifying those actions, there is no reply.

How is it possible for everyone to be so utterly stupid?

Or how is it that society is now so utterly decrepit as to make me weep?

Can anyone else explain this abomination?
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:38 AM   #2
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/sigh


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Actual research.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:43 AM   #3
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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Can anyone else explain this abomination?

Turn down the T, and turn up the F.

It's a good song.
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plays on feelings, not linear reality.

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Old 04-09-2012, 04:44 AM   #4
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I did.

The trite bullshit expressed in that interview is meaningless.

Worse, it's entirely irrelevant. So what, the poor moron intended to be "ironic"? Oh well, he's simply a moron then. He got rich off of prostituting his "irony" (which is about as complex an irony as a two-year old could come up with) to major record labels, radio stations, etc...

I'm talking about how the audience receives it.

Maybe the stupid, pathetic little shit really thinks he "made a difference", hah. He didn't. He just made everyone think it was cool to listen to pop songs about school shootings.

If anything, now it's much more acceptable, since he put a nice veneer over the ugliness of it. Good job.

---------- Post added 04-09-2012 at 01:50 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by anticlimatic
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Turn down the T, and turn up the F.

It's a good song. Music plays on feelings, not linear reality.

Meaningless sentences.

Or else you've said "hey man, the song makes you feel good about school shootings man, chill out and enjoy some school shootings bro!"

So again: What. The. Fuck??

Are you actually so morally deranged that thanks to this song, you now feel it is "cool" or perhaps "funny" to take a gun and go blow a bunch of people away because you're having a slightly bad day?...

And your 'defense' of this attitude is something like, "bro, you can't think about stuff like this, you just gotta, like, feel it and stuff" ?

No, I am incapable of feeling such things. Indeed, the song is clearly making it a much more dangerous world given this state of affairs. Everyone is now being encouraged to simply go kill a few people if they are feeling poorly?

I never thought I would be envious of the moral standards upheld in Hitler's Germany, yet I now find myself longing for such security in society. My God, with such vibes going through the society, I am glad I don't go out into public places too often...

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Old 04-09-2012, 04:50 AM   #5
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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I did.

The trite bullshit expressed in that interview is meaningless.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But your initial argument that it glorifies violence is completely wrong.

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Old 04-09-2012, 04:55 AM   #6
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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No, I am incapable of feeling such things. Indeed, the song is clearly making it a much more dangerous world given this state of affairs. Everyone is now being encouraged to simply go kill a few people if they are feeling poorly?

You know who else is incapable of feeling such things? People who would shoot up their school.

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Old 04-09-2012, 05:00 AM   #7
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I'm pretty sure people that shoot up their school are very capable of feeling the "cool vibes" of shooting up a school.

Otherwise, one wonders how they should come to be shooting up a school.

Do you think before you make your posts, or just type words at random? (I am honestly unsure).

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, perhaps you could be more considerate in the future?
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:05 AM   #8
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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I'm pretty sure people that shoot up their school are very capable of feeling the "cool vibes" of shooting up a school.

Otherwise, one wonders how they should come to be shooting up a school.

Do you think before you make your posts, or just type words at random? (I am honestly unsure).

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, perhaps you could be more considerate in the future?

For someone so against violence, you seem pretty eager to pick a fight...
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:05 AM   #9
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  Originally Posted by Vox
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That's your opinion, and your entitled to it. But your initial argument that it glorifies violence is completely wrong.


My argument was not about the artist's intent.

It was about how it is presented, and received by society. Society metabolizes it as cool, and the people I heard listening to it thought it was a song about something "cool". This other fellow on this very thread is saying now that the song is "cool", and about "cool vibes" and the like.

Perhaps the poor, destitute artist was trying to really make a point...sadly, he has no control over how his audience receives his art work, or how it is interpreted.

He has unwittingly made school shootings seem "chill", "cool", and even, as several people have told me, "funny".

It does not bode well for society from my perspective. Do you feel more, or less comfortable knowing that many (most?) people around you now views shootings like that to be "cool" and "funny"?

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Old 04-09-2012, 05:12 AM   #10
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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My argument was not about the artist's intent.

Do you feel more, or less comfortable knowing that many (most?) people around you now views shootings like that to be "cool" and "funny"?

You should repost this as a poll, to find out how many people think school shootings are cool and funny. Then, when most people answer yes, as you think they will, you can commence with a real argument, and not one that's just in your imagination.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:20 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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Such social messages make me long to live in Hitler's Germany...

As you seem quite bent on censorship, propaganda, and dictating the order of things...I'm not surprised.

As it stands, the only link between liking that song and committing mass murder is in your imagination, and you've yet to provide anything that might lead one to any other conclusion.

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Old 04-09-2012, 05:55 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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My argument was not about the artist's intent. It was about how it is presented, and received by society.

No, be honest. You said:

  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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The song blatantly glorifies school shootings. Indeed, not even for such reasons as being bullied or ostracized, no, but simply because a a kid couldn't afford, or his parents wouldn't by him the newest version of some stupid, trendy shoes.

Your original post clearly states the song glorifies violence, not the perception of the song.

What I find odd is how you're vehemently against a society that finds school violence trendy, but also desire to live in Nazi Germany, a society which actively practiced and glorified genocide.

Also, I just want to say that neither I nor my friends ever viewed this song as promoting school violence. We all felt the emotions the song's creator intended; sadness, empathy, and complete outrage.

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Old 04-09-2012, 08:24 AM   #13
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Listening to something, understanding something, and agreeing with something are three independent things.
To assume someone finds -- and I quote -- "Columbine [...] a very funny, or cool affair" because of the lyrics of a song to which they enjoy listening is a massive leap of faith; one which I would personally hesitate to make.

For example, I have read and (humbly) understood your argument, as well as everyone else's, but that doesn't necessitate that I support everyone's points of view.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:40 AM   #14
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Alfred never owned pumped up kicks, so I think he's lashing out.

But seriously. I dig the tune, not the lyrics. Couldn't give a shit for the lyrics. I just like to feel the groove, that's it. So sue me. Wait, no, sue the band. Wait, no, sue society. Fuck, sue the shoes? Maybe the guns?

I understand the message you're trying to relay. That people can chill to a tune about such a thing is a bit disturbing. But most people who enjoy 'popular music' never make connections between 1 and 2. They just sing 1- the verses and 2- the chorus, and don't make correlations because they're too busy groovin'.

Plenty of other songs touch on controversial issues. Go hate them too.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:46 AM   #15
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Apparently, the glorification is not as blatant as you make it seem.

The song brings awareness of the emotional depth that can lead to such a tragic event with an ironically catchy beat. However, most people are just going to bob their head and enjoy the catchy beat.

I assume you were one of those rallying to ban Grand Theft Auto as well?

Someone should censor all this violent media because society cannot handle it.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #16
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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The song blatantly glorifies school shootings. [...] Or how is it that society is now so utterly decrepit as to make me weep?

It sounds as if you've suffered a sheltered existence away from the world, which, you'll find - should you ever venture outside of the Shire - is too diverse to actually resemble anybody's moral ideal. When a person of the crusade supposes that art should always set its good example, what they are advocating in effect is that art ought to consist of lies rather than communication.

The matter of course eschewing of documentary in aesthetics is one description of propaganda.


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Are you weeping?

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:14 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by stasis
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It sounds as if you've suffered a sheltered existence away from the world, which, you'll find - should you ever venture outside of the Shire - is too diverse to actually resemble anybody's moral ideal. When a person of the crusade supposes that art should always set its good example, what they are advocating in effect is that art ought to consist of lies rather than communication.

The matter of course eschewing of documentary in aesthetics is one description of propaganda.


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Are you weeping?

No, I am well aware of all of the "bad" things in society.

If Art is going to touch these subjects, it should be ugly, and expose the hideousness of the subject matter. Consider Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima. One can scarcely conjure up a more horrific event in human history, yet here it is, being portrayed in musical form. Ah, but did Penderecki get up on a mic and spit some "sick rhymes" over a "cool beat" about how "awesome shit was"?... No. He made the horror of the event manifest in the music. One is left with the documentation of the horrors that we as a species can commit against one another after hearing the piece, and is set much against the use of nuclear bombs.

Art that deals with such issues should NOT make light of the subject matter, or glorify it, as the song under discussion does. Perhaps I go too far in supposing this song to be art...well, popular entertainment will have to do. Or are there no ethical standards for popular entertainment?...

Sure, there are many other songs that are offensive, and, as some snide person said in this thread, "controversial". This song is not that. This song advocates, and presents as "cool", school shootings. As far as I know, the act of taking a gun and murdering a few dozen people because you couldn't get new shoes is not a "controversial" issue, as, prior to the "good vibes" that this song emitted towards the act, nobody thought it was a good thing to do.

Oh, so yes, perhaps now it IS controversial, because now many people think that school shootings ARE good things to do. But this can hardly be a counterargument to what I am saying, indeed, it just is what I've been saying.

I do appreciate your snide ad hominem though, nice touch, and probably just subtle enough to escape detection by the moderators, heh.

---------- Post added 04-09-2012 at 09:20 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by overexc
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Listening to something, understanding something, and agreeing with something are three independent things.
To assume someone finds -- and I quote -- "Columbine [...] a very funny, or cool affair" because of the lyrics of a song to which they enjoy listening is a massive leap of faith; one which I would personally hesitate to make.

For example, I have read and (humbly) understood your argument, as well as everyone else's, but that doesn't necessitate that I support everyone's points of view.

What the hell?

Why would they listen to the song then?

The only thing that is of even mild interest in popular music is the lyrics. I hear it all the time from fans of pop music, "the lyrics mean everything to me!" "It's all about the lyrics!".

People that like "beats" tend to listen to things like "dubstep" or what have you.

I don't buy it.

Even worse if you are correct, and everyone allows the lyrics that glorify school shootings to enter their minds without even thinking about it. This surely is affecting them on a subconscious level, thus making them more prone to violence at the slightest discomfort. This is hardly any better than the situation where they are consciously thinking school shootings are "cool". It still makes society a rather more dangerous, and dreadful place.

---------- Post added 04-09-2012 at 09:27 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by anticlimatic
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You are so empathetic, and kind! Worrying over a perfect stranger like that. Mother Theresa would be proud...



As you seem quite bent on censorship, propaganda, and dictating the order of things...I'm not surprised.

As it stands, the only link between liking that song and committing mass murder is in your imagination, and you've yet to provide anything that might lead one to any other conclusion.

Simply look up the song's lyrics, and you will see they are, indeed, about mass murder.

Simply listen to the song and you will see that the subject matter is presented as "cool" (the music), while the voice seems very cheerful, happy, etc...

The Nazi State actually did most of it's killing surreptitiously, leaving it to the SS, and certain designated factions. I would rather live in that society than one where even the popular media is promoting mass murder at the slightest discomfort in society.

Finally, the paragraph you quoted from my prior message shows nothing to your point. It is, admittedly, ambiguous as to what it being addressed, but it isn't obviously "about the intent of the artist". When I say the song glorifies school shootings/violence, it does so on its own, as social object, regardless of whatever the poor artist did.

It's far more troubling that it is well-recieved by society than that some sap of an "artist" would produce such irresponsible crap. What do I care if a single solitary artist wants to make some songs about how much he loves school shootings? But one would hope it would only have 20 views on youtube, and not 20 million while being promoted by major music labels.

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:38 PM   #18
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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If Art is going to touch these subjects, it should be ugly, and expose the hideousness of the subject matter. Consider Penderecki's Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima. One can scarcely conjure up a more horrific event in human history, yet here it is, being portrayed in musical form.

It's interesting that you select this particular example. As I understand it, Penderecki applied that title to the piece well after he'd finished composing it. This is to deal with aesthetic things-in-themselves first and foremost, and with events as secondaries, rather than setting out to provide a moral narrative for events.

Similarly, had the author of "Pumped Up Kicks" instead selected something more like "The Appropriation of Tragedy in Esteem-Narratives Within the Pop Cultural Mainstream" as a title for their piece, we might be having a good chin-scratch about the work instead of clutching furiously at pearls and bemoaning the
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:45 PM   #19
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Holy shit. Has society become this destitute? Such social messages make me long to live in Hitler's Germany...

I take it you've never been to a GWAR concert or heard of G.G. Allen.

 
Can anyone else explain this abomination?

There will always be a counterculture that remains outside of, but in direct relationship to society. It is a source of art and individuation.

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Old 04-09-2012, 12:53 PM   #20
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I didn't read through the posts, but I interpreted the song as it being the mentality of the killer, and the calmness as they're doing it. Aka, to them (the guys that do school shootings) it ISN'T frantic and it's actually calm and maybe even a little cheery (as terrifying as that may be to imagine). Then you have to think about what most of the shooters are: Really smart people that seem to have felt like they were picked on for being smart ("Different" in child lingo) and finally had enough of the "bullshit" from their perspectives.

I was never driven to shoot bitches, but I do understand what it's like to be picked on and made fun of and to never feel like I fit in because I was "bad at sports" and "weird" soo, it made a lot of sense to me. Makes me understand them in a sense, but I can't quite imagine the intensity of the ridicule to push them to kill people. That's gotta take a LOT of torment to actually go through with it, or maybe they never thought about the value of individual human life, or maybe they did and decided to still go through with it.

Who knows~

Edit: As far as "all the other kids with the pumped up kicks," I'd say that IS the reason why this message is so strong. Other kids (especially when young) differentiate what is "cool" and what is "not cool" based upon the most trivial of reasons. "You don't have a red shirt? Loser!" For kids that don't think, this is no problem at all, but I'm more than willing to bet other INTJs remember the feeling of being excluded back then and thinking "this does not make sense" but accepting that it seems to just be the way it is.

If anything, this makes me want to get parents to fucking educate their children on how to see through the bullshit other kids say (though blissfully ignorant when they do so, so no real "finger of blame"). It's a messy problem with many sources feeding into the equation. This social concept of "innocence" seems to be a poorly formulated facade for: "I don't know how to articulate complex interactions to my child that has a limited vocabulary. I also want them to believe in false illusory stories to "make life fun" because my ass HATES life and wishes things like that were real." When really...if you're never fed illusory-sweet, how can you know reality-sour? Wut dat? Reality check for America101.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:00 PM   #21
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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The only thing that is of even mild interest in popular music is the lyrics. I hear it all the time from fans of pop music, "the lyrics mean everything to me!" "It's all about the lyrics!".

People that like "beats" tend to listen to things like "dubstep" or what have you.

I don't buy it.

You're so comically, arrogantly ignorant here that I'm having a hard time taking your OP seriously at this point. Not a flame - really, I am fucking
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reading that. Please realize that your comment is a sweeping generalization with zero objectivity.

It takes a lot of artistic balls to write a song this provocative and taboo. For that alone I'd commend Foster, even if he didn't know that the song was gonna blow up when he wrote it. He has always referenced Truman Capote's In Cold Blood when he's been questioned about the subject matter.

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Old 04-09-2012, 02:38 PM   #22
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Point #1--

I'm pretty sure that the lyrics have almost nothing to do with the song's success. Shit is just catchy as hell...you have heard it right, and not just read the lyric sheet? He could be singing anything, it would hardly matter. Most pop music is about the music/beats/background, not the lyrics (hence the obvious reason why pop music lyrics are typically so stock, juvenile, and meaningless). Pumped Up Kicks was one of those songs with good, pop radio-friendly music, that just so happened to have a bit of a deeper, controversial meaning.

Point #2--

People that do take the song seriously, who could relate to the type of mentality that might go on a similar killing spree, will not be encouraged to do so by the song-- much the opposite. The emotional connection will help alleviate such pressures. One of art's primary functions is just that-- emotional release through perceived empathy. I realize that your hitler-youth mentality probably doesn't understand emotion all that well, but make no mistake, it's there, and there are
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to back it up.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:52 PM   #23
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ooh, pooh! A band with lyrics that you don't find to be politically correct! What a travesty, really.

The lyrics have little to do with the success. It's a good song. I didn't even know what the lyrics were until I'd listened to it a few dozen times and finally got curious enough to look up the full lyrics.

They lyrics are meaningful. Maybe not to you, and maybe not to reality, but to so many people. Seems to have its meaning in absentee parenting producing kids with overactive, violent imaginations. That's what I take away from it, anyway.

But yeah, I think it's a beautiful song. For comparison in arts, people tend to think that the art on display at the Denver Airport is violent, fucked up, and full of secret meanings. It's still beautiful though.

Foster the People has recently become one of my very favorite bands. It's an excellent album.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:55 PM   #24
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  Originally Posted by Scrotus
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I didn't read through the posts, but I interpreted the song as it being the mentality of the killer, and the calmness as they're doing it. Aka, to them (the guys that do school shootings) it ISN'T frantic and it's actually calm and maybe even a little cheery (as terrifying as that may be to imagine). Then you have to think about what most of the shooters are: Really smart people that seem to have felt like they were picked on for being smart ("Different" in child lingo) and finally had enough of the "bullshit" from their perspectives.

This is exactly how I interpret the song. It's true that people who commit school shootings or shootings in general think they are doing something right, or at least just. The song is giving us a glimpse into that kind of thought-process.

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Old 04-09-2012, 03:03 PM   #25
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  Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke
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Yet when I asked those on the streets listening, "so, you think that Columbine was a very funny, or cool affair?" They say I must be "evil" or "fucked up" for asking such a question. When I point out they are listening to a song glorifying those actions, there is no reply.

Sounds like they don't understand the meaning of the lyrics, and also that they still think school shootings are, as they said, "evil" or "fucked up". You provided evidence that directly counters your point, basically.

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