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wizardblues

INTJ and Avoidant Personality Disorder

I thought I had found a thread here before where someone was saying that the two are often connected. But after some searching couldn't find it.

Thoughts on this relation? I know I have extreme avoidance issues. I always thought it was because of the way I was raised, and how my mind formed during that time. But it could be related to that and my personality type. It's interesting to think about.

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I have approach avoidance issues and it sabotages me in some severe ways. I don't know how to fix it.

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i think avoidant personality disorder would be the result of classical conditioning.

Because everytime an introverted person is around a group, he gets judged hardcore (or believes he does), and it never ends well.

Until something good comes out of social interaction, then an introverted person has no reason to engage in it.

But that leads to never gaining anything out of social interaction (because that person never socially interacts)

so, the end conclusion is, you got to risk it, and just engage in social interaction, despite what your instincts tell you, so that you can eventually gain something from it, and therefor nullify the classical conditioning

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I think that the presence of avoidant personality traits in INTJs is the result of our being trained by others at the earliest stages of life to think that there is something wrong with our nature. As we become more comfortable with ourselves and aware that there isn't anything wrong with us, we become less avoidant, because we no longer see ourselves as being a problem.

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i think avoidant personality disorder would be the result of classical conditioning.

Because everytime an introverted person is around a group, he gets judged hardcore (or believes he does), and it never ends well.

Until something good comes out of social interaction, then an introverted person has no reason to engage in it.

But that leads to never gaining anything out of social interaction (because that person never socially interacts)

so, the end conclusion is, you got to risk it, and just engage in social interaction, despite what your instincts tell you, so that you can eventually gain something from it, and therefor nullify the classical conditioning

I must be stoned, plastered, daft, or missing something. What's the second stimulus necessary for classical conditioning?

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I must be stoned, plastered, daft, or missing something. What's the second stimulus necessary for classical conditioning?

I think negative feedback loop is probably a better description than classical conditioning.

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I must be stoned, plastered, daft, or missing something. What's the second stimulus necessary for classical conditioning?

The association relates social interaction with past rejection. You think about interacting socially and Bam! the association hits you and you feel bad about interacting socially so you don't do it. Negative feedback loop is a good way to explain it too.

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I've accepted recently that I'm a recluse. I don't like coming out because people put me on edge. Even when I cover all the bases and use the best of my manipulation skills, there are just too many variables left unchecked. I don't trust people at all and it shows with how many people I attempt to even interact with. I have the social skills necessary to do basic things in a "personal" atmosphere with other people. In the professional atmosphere I can do most anything because it is task oriented.

I have thought about seeing if I could be classified with this disorder but I'm not sure if it is just a choice that is played on by my paranoia or an actual disorder.

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Wow. Another "disorder"?

"You don't adhere to some conventional notion of normalcy disorder".

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The association relates social interaction with past rejection. You think about interacting socially and Bam! the association hits you and you feel bad about interacting socially so you don't do it. Negative feedback loop is a good way to explain it too.

That’s operant conditioning, reinforcements, law of effect. Not classical conditioning.

---------- Post added 05-08-2012 at 03:41 AM ----------

I think negative feedback loop is probably a better description than classical conditioning.

In what ways? I'm asking out of curiosity.

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In what ways? I'm asking out of curiosity.

Negative social experiences lead to reduced social exposure causing reduced/poor social skills which leads to more negative social experiences; loop.

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I thought I had found a thread here before where someone was saying that the two are often connected. But after some searching couldn't find it.

Thoughts on this relation? I know I have extreme avoidance issues. I always thought it was because of the way I was raised, and how my mind formed during that time. But it could be related to that and my personality type. It's interesting to think about.

Personality construct is the result of nature and nurture. Caregivers responsible for raising you, being primary socializing agents play a large role influencing the formation of your basic personality. Two siblings can begin on the same foot but depending on environmental forces that later come into their lives at school, play, and work, their personalities will then diverge. If avoidance is the result of upbringing, IMO it will then resolve, continue, or worsen itself further down the road.

You didn’t elaborate on the kind of extreme avoidance issues you’re experiencing.

If common trademarks in less developed INTJs include aversion or difficulties in developing close emotional bonds, an over-whelming need for independence and self-sufficiency, negative views and trust issues with people, then it can most certainly be correlated with existing theories about insecure attachment styles in adults (especially dismissive-avoidance, fearful-avoidance).

---------- Post added 05-08-2012 at 04:40 PM ----------

Negative social experiences lead to reduced social exposure causing reduced/poor social skills which leads to more negative social experiences; loop.

Thanks for explaining. Yea... I think it's possible that people excuse themselves for prospective failure in social situations, believing it to be a strategy for preservation of self-esteem which, unfortunately, produces obstacles more often that helps in negotiating successful experiences.

It's interesting, the odd measures humans take to protect themselves.

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"You don't adhere to some conventional notion of normalcy disorder".

Does everything have to be about social norms with you? Jesus Christ, talk about "when you're hammer, the whole world looks like a nail." The fact that people with AVP genuinely suffer and lead highly restricted emotional and social lives as a result should be sufficient for some consideration of abnormality. Because then at least a pursuit of improvement is possible.

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Supposedly DSM-V is meant to reduce the "on/off" disorder diagnostic style, which is probably what folks like Zibber find distasteful. I believe it's meant to be replaced with assigning degrees to tendencies, so you might find yourself possessing a very high degree of avoidance, rather than being labeled with a disorder. This way, you can have a clearer picture of your tendencies, and determining if that's a tendency which you would benefit from addressing is dependent upon your life context.

The problem with "Everyone is broken" and "Nobody is broken" is they are both polarizations. I'm glad DSM-V is taking steps to interpolate these two poles.

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This way, you can have a clearer picture of your tendencies, and determining if that's a tendency which you would benefit from addressing is dependent upon your life context.

Nah, all it's going to do is create confusion for people with "high degrees" of a disorder. All in the name of political correctness - the "I'm ok, you're ok" infantilized reality.

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Nah, all it's going to do is create confusion for people with "high degrees" of a disorder. All in the name of political correctness - the "I'm ok, you're ok" infantilized reality.

Well. I'm sure all the professionals are wrong, and you're right.

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Well. I'm sure all the professionals are wrong, and you're right.

Oh, a Millenial favorite. As if no large-scale institutional changes have ever had some pretty crappy unintended consequences, oodles of "experts" notwithstanding.

And if you think "experts" are never influenced or pressured by PC fads, then well, live a bit longer.

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Well. I'm sure all the professionals are wrong, and you're right.
Oh, a Millenial favorite. As if no large-scale institutional changes have ever had some pretty crappy unintended consequences, oodles of "experts" notwithstanding.

And if you think "experts" are never influenced or pressured by PC fads, then well, live a bit longer.

You both make good points. But ultimately there may be something to be said about keeping the idea of disorders around. If there is a problem in someone's life that they cannot seem to correct for on their own, a disorder might be an appropriate label for such a predicament. It's an efficient way to classify the types of problems someone may be facing, and as such, would help indicate known methods for reducing or eliminating those problems.

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I used to think I must have this. I asked my therapist though, once I finally went to one, and she said I didn't have and never had had a personality disorder.

She did say I was avoidant, but not personality disorder avoidant. Just normal avoidant, and I've "fixed" that now. It took me awhile to figure out that it was fixed because I'm still quite asocial. That's just personality though, and not disorder. I don't make decisions based on fear any more, at least not as much as I used to.

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The only diathetic disorder afflicting me out of my myriad of given mental disorders, so do I think my avoidant personality disorder is a coincidence with my happening to have a temperament perfectly consistent with said-disorder and have that particular disorder? No. I wouldn't be surprised if virtually everyone with my temperament had avoidant personality disorder. As far as MBTI goes, meh, whatever, MBTI isn't the ultimate typology so much as my MBTI type is a correlate of my temperament but it's probable that the temperament causing my MBTI result is also personally causative of my avoidant personality disorder.

Edited by Zombicide

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Whatever. Calling it a disorder may just be a useful way to label and talk about it. Everything's a construct anyway.

More on topic, I'm not as socially avoidant as a lot of INTJs (and unfortunately, I'm WAY more confrontational than most. You know, in person.) But. I USED to be terribly socially hesitant when I was younger. To the point of having panic attacks. I kind of dealt with that accidentally by getting into work positions where I had to deal with many people in many different types of situations and I had manage many of them.

This may sound weird, but I think I have a fear of success.

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I used to think I must have this. I asked my therapist though, once I finally went to one, and she said I didn't have and never had had a personality disorder.

She did say I was avoidant, but not personality disorder avoidant. Just normal avoidant, and I've "fixed" that now. It took me awhile to figure out that it was fixed because I'm still quite asocial. That's just personality though, and not disorder. I don't make decisions based on fear any more, at least not as much as I used to.

At what point is it a disorder instead of just being avoidant?

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The only diathetic disorder afflicting me out of my myriad of given mental disorders, so do I think my avoidant personality disorder is a coincidence with my happening to have a temperament perfectly consistent with said-disorder and have that particular disorder? No. I wouldn't be surprised if virtually everyone with my temperament had avoidant personality disorder. As far as MBTI goes, meh, whatever, MBTI isn't the ultimate typology so much as my MBTI type is a correlate of my temperament but it's probable that the temperament causing my MBTI result is also personally causative of my avoidant personality disorder.

Turns out avoidant personality disorder is not diathetic. Just clarifying years later. Although the temperament may prone the potentially afflicted, I was probably just mixing up my temperament with the disorder after developing the later, since even they are both two different things, that may aid the OP in not conflating e.g. MBTI with avoidant personality disorder ... though Wizardblues is probably not active on the site anymore.

Edited by Zombicide

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I dont think I have avoidant personality disorder, but I do have a habit of simply avoiding things as I fear it might later become an issue. I do participate in activity's when I am asked to join them though. In fact anything I have ever been invited to do I have said yes to and it really does not matter what the activity is, if I was asked to come, I would probably go. Simply avoiding things though does not mean you understand how to solve them when you are forced to deal with them. So weaseling out is not always the best policy.

There is a character from a show I watched I think is avoidant personality. Which the best case I can think of is Yukitaru from "Future diary".

His GF Yuno Gasai I believe is codependent.

latest?cb=20131130175211&path-prefix=protagonist

Yukiteru_Amano.png

Yuno:Pink haired girl

Yukitaru(Yuki):Brown haired boy

Edited by LeeRoy

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