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pinkroger

Schizophrenia and high IQ

51 posts in this topic

Is there a correlation between schizophrenia and high IQ? I am personally schizophrenic and my IQ is genius-level, so I am left to wonder if this coincidence.

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Not really, schizophrenia can often be detrimental to an individuals mental faculties. Perhaps you display traits associated to schizophrenia without physiological deterioration of the brain. It is rather coincidental that mental disorders are in a relative percentile to the INTJ personality type. As for correlation however, It would definitely be more coincidence than correlation, but if I can assist, I will try to research it further and get back to you at a later date.

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There have been cases of INTJs being misdiagnosed as schizophrenic on the surface because a lot of us talk about the "voices" but there is a vast difference between the voices that tell a schizophrenic person to kill someone because they are an alien (the end spectrum of schizophrenia) and the "voices" that demand an INTJ to take something apart to see how and why it works the way it does.

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Not really, schizophrenia can often be detrimental to an individuals mental faculties. Perhaps you display traits associated to schizophrenia without physiological deterioration of the brain. It is rather coincidental that mental disorders are in a relative percentile to the INTJ personality type. As for correlation however, It would definitely be more coincidence than correlation, but if I can assist, I will try to research it further and get back to you at a later date.

I think many of us would be interested in what you might discover about this question. Correlation might be hard to get stats on, but I'll bet there are some studies that estimate conditional probabilities or likelihoods.

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From what I tracked down over the web it appears that schizophrenia typically correlates to low IQ.

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This is only an assumption, because I cannot claim to have read study sheets or statistics to prove this; but I believe that your case of schizophrenia and high IQ are seperate entities to your being. The only reason that you are questioning its correlation is probably because at a single moment you were aware of both its presence and sought to bridge a connection of sorts. For instance, I might ask a question like, does high IQ have any correlation to long fingers, because I have both. The fact that both parts belong to me does not necessarily have anything to do with each other.

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That's odd then, as I have read several studies (I will share them if I can find them) that correlate psychosis to high IQ; and one must first be psychotic to be schizophrenic.

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So then the logical progression of thought would be:

Psychosis a possible influence over level of IQ; results in level above average --> psychosis a requisite for schizophrenia ---> and therefore, schizophrenia a possible influence over IQ

Now, a person with psychosis is defined as such:

"People experiencing psychosis may report hallucinations or delusional beliefs, and may exhibit personality changes and disorganized thinking. This may be accompanied by unusual or bizarre behaviour, as well as difficulty with social interaction and impairment in carrying out the activities of daily living."

Certain parts of the extract suggests schizophrenia. Can I then say that having schiz is a result of, or a complement of having a high IQ in accordance to what I pointed out above?

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I was just having a conversation about this. One of my best friends had a maternal grandfather diagnosed with schizophrenia. My cousin told me she considers this friend to be VERY smart, and my friend was valedictorian, honors student, pretty sure she's an INTJ, GRE and SAT-champion, etc. I am still open to the idea that having a 'novel way' of looking at things may be the genetic factor in question, despite my having to admit that in seeking a coorelation, I was starting out with a faulty assumption. I was talking with a woman who's actually a therapist & she said that with Schizophrenia, traits can be passed down.

This is a highly specialized forum we're on, so this report of another intelligent person w/Schizophrenic traits could actually be inconsequential as proof & it's actually interesting for me to posit that it may be because we are both INTJs that we've been wondering about this.

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That's odd then, as I have read several studies (I will share them if I can find them) that correlate psychosis to high IQ; and one must first be psychotic to be schizophrenic.

"There was a highly significant association between low IQ scores and the subsequent development of schizophrenia"

"The results confirm the importance of low intellectual ability as a risk factor for schizophrenia and other psychoses."

"However, analyses of WISC-III factor profiles suggested that early onset schizophrenia patients may have more global IQ deficits than non-organic, non-affective psychoses when examined recently after illness onset."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16626945?ordinalpos=115&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9403903

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17827411?ordinalpos=20&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mksg/acn/2002/00000014/00000003/art00002

!!http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1805734!!

Perhaps you should share your articles. I don't really doubt you as it doesn't seem to be a completely cut and dry issue and how IQ correlates to psychosis and schizophrenia seems to depend on severity of symptoms (duh!), age of onset and even the diagnosis criterion used (as illustrated by the last article I linked).

However, even though my personal research was far from exhaustive, I was unable to locate a single source which would substantiate the claim that either psychosis or schizophrenia correlates to a high IQ.

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Are you sure you weren't misdiagnosed? I don't want to go beyond my current understanding but I was always given the impression in school that schizophrenia was a broad classification that needed to be narrowed down and was probably made up of several different disorders. It was also hinted at that it was sometimes used as a catch all.

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I am personally schizophrenic and my IQ is genius-level

Are you and is it? Just wondering (based on prior postings) whether you base this on online tests or something more solid, no disrespect meant.

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Then what should come off the example of John Nash?

The lesson that you can't form a theory from a single case.

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Hello,

I have an IQ of 150 or higher (tested by a professional psychologist) and I have schizophrenia.

Your question is very interesting but there is a problem: If you really want a statistic about genius level schizophrenics (not gifted schizophrenics) finding cases is very hard. Let’s say that about one in a thousand has a genius level IQ.

If the prevalence of schizophrenia is not higher than in the normal population every hundred of those should have schizophrenia. That means ten in a million. Furthermore some of those people might never have been tested for IQ.

I have also read that schizophrenia is more common in people with low level IQ. But maybe it is simply stronger in them and therefore more obvious?

The statistic that I really would welcome is: If you have a higher IQ does this give you better prospects for your illness to be cured?

So fare my IQ did help me to get out of many troubles. But this time I really seem stuck.

Yesterday I read a hilarious article which claimed that some of the genes which are allegedly associated with schizophrenia where over long periods positively selected by evolution. This means that they must give a sort of competitive advantage. The only problem is to figure out what kind of advantage that might be...

If we want to go on hunting this rare bunch of people Mensa should be the place to start.

.

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For what I have read about geniuses, it makes sense to me. People "smarter" than the average see things others can't... it might relate to the "simulator" thread, where we can put too much info inside our heads and simulate... usually putting too much effort on detecting the failures... it can drive some people insane.

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First post here, even though I discovered I was an INTJ a few years back.

Just thought I would share my own experience of Mental Illness being an INTJ with an IQ of 147

When I was 15 I had a psychotic experience no voices but severe paranoia over a period of one weekend that resulted in me being drugged up to my eye balls on anti psychotics and left practically in a state of coma for a month.

I did'nt drink or smoke and was pretty much a loner at school into reading fiction and with a passion for home computers.

Unfortunately the episode I had just happened near my final school exams and as I did not really know what happened to me or why and also had very little self confidence, I just scraped through my exams without making college.

I got into computer sales and ended up being very successful and ended up setting up my own business when I was 20.

To cut a long story short I have still have no degree but it never hindered my career as I have worked for a couple of multinational tech firms and have always rose to the top with my "Outside the Box" thinking and dedication.

Unfortunately the monkey on my back decided to come back to haunt me, about 7 years ago I was on business abroad and was returning home sitting waiting to take off on a airpalne and my thoughts started getting erratic, the paranoia returned for some strange reason I thought the Devil himself was after me and ended up getting off the flight and had to get my Mother fly over to bring me back, which was scary for her as I was in a very bad state with all my senses being affected, sight, smell, the works. Stephen Spielberg could not beat the special effects your mind can create.

I was signed into an Psychiatric unit for my own good and ended up being there for 3 weeks (I was fine after a couple of days after meds but they keep you in anyway).

It was strange waking up with someone in the bed beside me with a Pet Rock....

Well currently I am married with 2 kids and a lovely wife, and have done pretty well for myself between property endeavors and online ventures, the odd time I get the compliment of being a genius from friends but I think sometimes I really am not far off just being plain mad.

Anyone other INTJ's out there with a similar affliction?

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Could'nt tell you, but when your in that zone 2+2 could = 60 and did you ever see a square circle?

Well the consultant psychologist was pretty impressed at the time with the score considering I was on pretty heavy medication at the time, personally I think theres angles to intelligence, like the way some people are street wise and some are not, like the way some people don't pick up on body language and some people can read you like an open book.

To be honest I still do not know what caused my affliction or why it occurred or will it happen again.

Just would love to know if anyone else out there has experienced anything similar.

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I think many of us would be interested in what you might discover about this question. Correlation might be hard to get stats on, but I'll bet there are some studies that estimate conditional probabilities or likelihoods.

Well there are problably two things going on here:

1.) Smart people see the world differently than normal people, and over historical time some "sane" smart people were probably labled crazy by normal people. An atheist in Medival Christian Europe would be one example.

2.) The genious brain is physically more complex, and thus has more that can go wrong with it. Any system that has a lot of complexity also has many points of failure.

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According to psychological research schizophrenia tends with correlate to lower IQ. PsychINFO could give you the information you want on this subject.

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2.) The genious brain is physically more complex, and thus has more that can go wrong with it. Any system that has a lot of complexity also has many points of failure.

Yes, I have more data to back this theory up. My entire immediate family range on tested scores from a mere "above average" to genius level intelligence. But all of us are extremely complicated... even without all the things we have been diagnosed with.

I mentioned some of it on a differant thread, but it wouldn't hurt to re-post it here:

(5 person family)

person #1- ADD, personality quirks

person #2- ADD, chemical depression

person #2- manic/depressive bipolar

person #4- bipolar/ADD/chemical depression, anxiety disorder

person #5- no diagnosed issues, but personality quirks, and possible OCD

*laughs* My family dinners are the stuff legends are made of. :laugh:

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Could'nt tell you, but when your in that zone 2+2 could = 60 and did you ever see a square circle?

Well the consultant psychologist was pretty impressed at the time with the score considering I was on pretty heavy medication at the time, personally I think theres angles to intelligence, like the way some people are street wise and some are not, like the way some people don't pick up on body language and some people can read you like an open book.

To be honest I still do not know what caused my affliction or why it occurred or will it happen again.

Just would love to know if anyone else out there has experienced anything similar.

Your story certainly has extremely captured ahold of my intrest. Would you mind telling us how you feel about it? How did you feel at the time? What did you see or hear or smell on the second round. How has it affected your schema on religion, where are you heading and where all of us are heading.

If you feel that its too personal to say anything, I understand.

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Second Round

Smelled Sulfur (Which I thought was Brimstone) hence the Devil etc.

Going through Airport People's facial features looked disfigured.

Sitting on plane I could see 666 burned into the back of the seat in front of me.

Pulled out a magazine from the pouch in the chair in front of me and "Fat Bastard" was written on it.

Was absolutely convinced the plane was going to explode on take off.

Amazingly enough I kept my composure, by reciting in my head that passage from the bible "Though I walk through the valley of Darkness, No Evil Shall I fear".

When I got home the following day I was checked into the local Psych unit at this stage I thought I was the second coming and was brought into some poor doctors office who had to check me out, I demanded to meet a "political leader" come 12pm no sign of my demand being met so I slapped her computer monitor (CRT) which hopped off the wall about 6 feet behind her. (seemed to possess amazing strength in this state which the 5 male nurses who came in the door two seconds later discovered).

At this stage about 5 Male nurses entered and they had a job and a half trying to hold me down, once I got the injection of (accuphase I think it was called) that really brought me back down to earth.

RPMcMurphy added to this post, 4 minutes and 59 seconds later...

As for Religion

I am not very religious, only go to church for weddings Births and funerals.

As for believing in God, sometimes I do, Sometimes I do not and that goes for the Devil too.

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I'm not sure if there's a direct connection between schizophrenia and high IQ, but I found this paper which might be of interest.

Genetic variation in DTNBP1 influences general cognitive ability

Abstract

Human intelligence is a trait that is known to be significantly influenced by genetic factors, and recent linkage data provide positional evidence to suggest that a region on chromosome 6p,
previously associated with schizophrenia, may be linked to variation in intelligence
. The gene for dysbindin-1 (DTNBP1) is located at 6p and has also been implicated in schizophrenia, a neuropsychiatric disorder characterized by cognitive dysfunction. We report an association between DTNBP1 genotype and general cognitive ability (g) in two independent cohorts, including 213 patients with schizophrenia or schizo-affective disorder and 126 healthy volunteers. These data suggest that DTNBP1 genetic variation influences human intelligence.

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Very interesting about how a more physically complex brain can go wrong in more ways. That is the most straightforward way I have seen it expressed anywhere.

As for the the "type" of schizophrenic that I am, I don't hear voices, I don't see things, but, A. I don't often feel emotions (and I am told that my spectrum of emotions is different from the "normal spectrum of emotions", this is the opinion of a professional psychologist), and B. I have been known to just snap. Like those people that just pick up a gun all of a sudden and start shooting at anything. Of course, I try to stay away from weapons as much as possible for this reason. This may not seem like schizophrenia, but I have had two psychologists say on separate occasions that I am schizophrenic.

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