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Ambra

What are things a boy can only learn from his dad?

37 posts in this topic

Or a girl from her mom? A girl from her dad, or a boy from his mom?

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From a purely theoretical standpoint, nothing.  A woman can teach her son how to shave, a man could show a girl how to put a tampon in or braid her hair or do her make up, etc. etc.  But those are probably just some practical examples of things that the dad/mom typically do.  I'd say the biggest thing though is the perspective.  Anything a mom teaches her son will always be from a female perspective, whereas anything that comes from a dad will be from the male perspective.  In my opinion, it can tilt the worldview of the child to only receive one side.

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I'll tell you what a man can't teach his son- how not to piss all over the damn toilet seat. Little shits.

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Through unconscious mirroring, how to act towards women. 

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11 hours ago, AlwaysEurus said:

Through unconscious mirroring, how to act towards women. 

Not only uncouncious, also concious.

Men teach their sons how to behave towards women, how to be sexually aggresive, how to relate to the other gender, the expectations and their worth.

Women cannot teach that to their sons. They can try, but it would be a female version of it... how "they think" all this should be.

The same is true for women to men.

(Not necessarily a father/dad, it is more a paternal/male model).

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20 hours ago, Ambra said:

Or a girl from her mom? A girl from her dad, or a boy from his mom?

Nothing.

Particularly in this day and age of the internet anything can be learned online or through some other means.

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At the outermost level nothing

 
 
...... added to this post 0 minutes later:
 
15 hours ago, AesSedai said:

I'll tell you what a man can't teach his son- how not to piss all over the damn toilet seat. Little shits.

Lmao

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Posted (edited)

His dad's secrets. And stories about his dad's past that only he knows. His paternal family history if no one else is alive to tell it.

Edited by INTJoe

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17 hours ago, AesSedai said:

I'll tell you what a man can't teach his son- how not to piss all over the damn toilet seat. Little shits.

Come now. That's not nearly as bad as when they wiped kackee all over the walls.

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I've never met him, so I really can't tell you.

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How to behave as a mature man in society, particularly in interacting with other mature men.

 

IMO, the phenomenon of adult-boys in our society is largely a byproduct of our increasingly fatherless families. With no responsible men to imprint upon, boys grow up guessing how an adult man should act...and the results usually put them in prison.

---

I've been blessed with multiple successful male role models in my life, both straight and gay. TBH, young gay men often seek older gay men romantically for this sort of mentorship.

 

 

 
 
...... added to this post 1 minute later:
 
2 hours ago, ischulte said:

Nothing.

Particularly in this day and age of the internet anything can be learned online or through some other means.

And your son will learn how to be a man from Stormfront.

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35 minutes ago, eagleseven said:

TBH, young gay men often seek older gay men romantically for this sort of mentorship.

Explains the practice of older men having sex with young boys in the Pashtun.

Makes you wonder why Brits and Americans are so dead set against Middle-Easterners doing it.

 

Quote

Particularly in this day and age of the internet anything can be learned online or through some other means.

38 minutes ago, eagleseven said:

And your son will learn how to be a man from Stormfront.

Explains why none of the extremely racist people I've met IRL, ever mentioned it to me.

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Come to think of it I dont know anything special that I learned from my father. Nothing that I couldnt not learn otherwise. Both me and my brother were rather rebellious and individualistic. All we got that was worth something was getting a good beating here and there when we were out of line instead of having police or authorities involved.

But we were always smart enough to know where the line is. We knew not to cross it not because we had good parents, but because we had some common sense in our selfs.

I think parenting is overrated and bad or clueless, albeit well meaning parents, are far worse than no parents. There are things we learn from others as well. Family isnt the only place where we learn to interact and see values of society. Id say home is only one third of it all. But to be honest I believe that we are all different and I believe we all get influenced differently by different people. Perhaps some kids really benefit from parenting.

I think most parents like to believe that they are really some special influence, but its not really that much true. Its more about the place you live in and the community you live in and schools you go to and friends you have  and so on. SOme super controling parents might be of influence on kids, but most parents have no clue how to influence their kids. At some point kids grow their own mind and break the chains of parents and just go their own way and do everything their own way. Parents usually cant handle the fact that they have very little influence on their kids.

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Come to think of it I dont know anything special that I learned from my father. Nothing that I couldnt not learn otherwise.

I don't recall much that I learned from my father. He had cancer from when I was born, was in and out of hospitals all the time, and died when I was 14. I spent so much time there visiting with my family that I knew the hallways of the Middlesex Hospital better than I knew the hallways of my school.

When he was at home, he didn't say very much to me.

But what I can see, is that I picked up on his habits and attitudes. He was always reading and studying, and as a kid, my head was always in a book. He was quiet and soft-spoken. So was I. The few things that he did say or write to me, really struck home, and were very well worth listening to.

He had done so many things that I could have learned. He had been a soldier, a farmer, a lecturer, a writer, and in his last year, an antique dealer. I sometimes wish we'd spoken more. But then, maybe that all I really needed was an example of what a man could be, and he was all that and a bag of chips.

Edited by scorpiomover

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No idea. I can't think of anything, and don't buy any of the examples mentioned by others so far. I could see how a difference in perspective may make some things more challenging to relay, but this does not  mean it's impossible. 

 
 
...... added to this post 14 minutes later:
 

There also seems to be an implicit assumption by many here that the nuclear family format is something more than a relatively recent invention or represents something of a "default" bestowing all sorts of benefits. It isn't, and for the vast majority of history this was not actually the norm. People got by just fine. 

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22 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

No idea. I don't buy any of the examples mentioned by others so far.

Though I answered it more like a riddle, my examples are accurate.

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Just now, INTJoe said:

Though I answered it more like a riddle, my examples are accurate.

:laugh: Ya got me. Yes, but only by definition. 

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20 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

I don't recall much that I learned from my father. He had cancer from when I was born, was in and out of hospitals all the time, and died when I was 14. I spent so much time there visiting with my family that I knew the hallways of the Middlesex Hospital better than I knew the hallways of my school.

When he was at home, he didn't say very much to me.

But what I can see, is that I picked up on his habits and attitudes. He was always reading and studying, and as a kid, my head was always in a book. He was quiet and soft-spoken. So was I. The few things that he did say or write to me, really struck home, and were very well worth listening to.

He had done so many thing that I could have learned. I sometimes wish we'd spoken more. But then, maybe that all I really needed was an example of what a man could be, and he was all that and a bag of chips.

Yes, I managed to pick up few things from my father. Unlike your experience my father was trying to influence us a lot. He was active father and did a lot of things with us. Taught us a lot, but my point was nothing of what he did was necessarily impossible to learn else where.

As for habits and attitudes I think I picked up only one thing and that was neuroticism. I cant think of anything that I have in common with my parents. My father is ENTJ and a very stereotypical one. I am INTP and very stereotypical one. More like INXP if we want to be more accurate, but I always lean towards INTP. My brother was always ISTP and very stereotypical one.

For example my father would always argue with people and always act like he has got all the answers. I used to do that when I was a kid and completely abandoned that sort of habit. My father always aims to win an arugment. Hes like that. Even when he has no clue what he is talking about he will argue on and on until the other person just gives up arguing. Most people just dont have the nerve to argue with him all day about something. Thats not to say he is stupid. He knows a lot, but he can be just as argumentative about stuff he has no clue about. I can do the same thing, but I never aim to win an argument. If I disagree its to force the other person to lay out his reasoning not to make him give up. If they layout their reasoning I will happily agree with them if it looks like what they say makes sense. Not my father. He will nitpick an arugment until people just cant take it anymore and just shut up.

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17 hours ago, eagleseven said:

How to behave as a mature man in society, particularly in interacting with other mature men.

 

IMO, the phenomenon of adult-boys in our society is largely a byproduct of our increasingly fatherless families. With no responsible men to imprint upon, boys grow up guessing how an adult man should act...and the results usually put them in prison.

Please, from my experience it actually seems the opposite. Most of the worst men in our society are that way because they grew up learning misogyny and racism from their fathers.  Men who grew up being largely raised by their mothers have significantly more respect for women, and other minorities than those who grew up viewing their father as some kind of super hero. Better to be raised without a father, than to be raised by a racist misogynist father.

17 hours ago, eagleseven said:
And your son will learn how to be a man from Stormfront.

Again ludicrous. You look at virtually all the young men today that support Republicans, and across the board they are the product of right wing extremist fathers, and even if they were divorced the father was around often enough to foster their hatred for women and minorities.

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19 minutes ago, ischulte said:

Please, from my experience it actually seems the opposite. Most of the worst men in our society are that way because they grew up learning misogyny and racism from their fathers.  Men who grew up being largely raised by their mothers have significantly more respect for women, and other minorities than those who grew up viewing their father as some kind of super hero. Better to be raised without a father, than to be raised by a racist misogynist father.

We have ~7 million felons, the vast majority being from single-parent homes.

Atlantic: The Real, Complex Connection Between Single-Parent Families and Crime

I think murder/pimping/drug dealing are bigger crimes than posting offensive opinions on INTJf, but YMMV. 

Quote

Again ludicrous. You look at virtually all the young men today that support Republicans, and across the board they are the product of right wing extremist fathers, and even if they were divorced the father was around often enough to foster their hatred for women and minorities.

131218_lowry_pajamaboy.jpg

 

The phenomenon of adult-boys are not limited to any political party. Is the gentleman above 10 or 25? Can you imagine him on the shores of Iwo Jima?

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1 minute ago, eagleseven said:

We have ~7 million felons, the vast majority being from single-parent homes.

Poverty stricken single parent homes.  The problem here isn't the lack of a father, it's the fact that the father himself is likely out of the picture because he's in prison, 

1 minute ago, eagleseven said:

I think murder/pimping/drug dealing are bigger crimes than posting offensive opinions on INTJf, but YMMV. 

131218_lowry_pajamaboy.jpg

 

The phenomenon of adult-boys are not limited to any political party. Is the gentleman above 10 or 25?

Is the gentleman above the one doing all the murdering, pimping and drug dealing?  Is he reading stormfront?  He's obviously not joining the Klan, voting for Trump, or posting anti-gay hate speech all over the internet.

While you may not particularly like the guy in your picture, I'm willing to bet that he is well educated, gainfully employed, and has a lot more respect for women and other minorities than this young man...

alg-ted-mann-ted-nugent-jpg.jpg

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13 minutes ago, ischulte said:

Poverty stricken single parent homes.  The problem here isn't the lack of a father, it's the fact that the father himself is likely out of the picture because he's in prison,

Go to your nearest minority community and look around: the pillars of the community will be patriarchal families built around Baptist churches, while the blight of the community will be street gangs run by confused men with no fathers. 

 

Quote

Is the gentleman above the one doing all the murdering, pimping and drug dealing?  Is he reading stormfront?  He's obviously not joining the Klan, voting for Trump, or posting anti-gay hate speech all over the internet.

While you may not particularly like the guy in your picture, I'm willing to bet that he is well educated, gainfully employed, and has a lot more respect for women and other minorities than this young man...

alg-ted-mann-ted-nugent-jpg.jpg

I live in a "redneck" town where everyone drives pickups, owns guns, and voted heavily for Trump. Those guys look like my neighbors. The local Kroger plays country music, and is common to see men with long beards and overalls shopping (local farmers). My barber has a giant "Don't Tread on Me" flag hanging on the wall, and you can get a bourbon with your cut n' shave.

 

Our homicide-rate is 0. The median income is $62k, and the median house price is $160k. We own all the guns, yet nobody gets shot: incredible!

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4 minutes ago, eagleseven said:

I live in a "redneck" town where everyone drives pickups, owns guns, and voted heavily for Trump. Those guys look like my neighbors. The local Kroger plays country music, and is common to see men with long beards and overalls shopping (local farmers).

 

Our homicide-rate is 0. The median income is $62k, and the median house price is $160k. We own all the guns, yet nobody gets shot: incredible!

Did you move from Columbus?  

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4 minutes ago, Holli said:

Did you move from Columbus?  

Grove City, which has expanded towards Columbus. Everyone calls it "Grovetucky" for a reason. 

Best part: I'm just a 20-minute drive from downtown Columbus via 71. Dunno why everyone wants to live on the north side.

 

...I had no idea this was all down here when I first moved to Columbus. Screw living in the ghetto.

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