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Who Is Supposed to Be the Leader in a Relationship? The Man or the Woman?

Who Is Supposed to Be the Leader in a Relationship? The Man or the Woman?   57 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is supposed to be the leader in a relationship? The man or the woman?

    • The man
      13
    • The woman
      3
    • Neither
      41

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169 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

The man should always be the leader in the relationship, 100% of the time. This is a truth that's as self-evident as they come. Sadly, I've been in several relationships with women and if it's one thing I've learned, it's that being a biological male doesn't always correlate with getting to be the man in the relationship.

Edited by Deprecator

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There are no imperatives here, "biological" or otherwise.

If this dynamic builds between two people, it will do so organically and may vary a lot between people and among individuals across relationships that they will have. Personally, I greatly dislike any sort of leader-subordinate dynamic in my relationships and tend to attract and get together with people who have a similar mindset. It's not a dynamic I can recall having pop up in any serious relationship I've had.

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1 hour ago, Nemesis said:

There are no imperatives here, "biological" or otherwise.

If this dynamic builds between two people, it will do so organically and may vary a lot between people and among individuals across relationships that they will have. Personally, I greatly dislike any sort of leader-subordinate dynamic in my relationships and tend to attract and get together with people who have a similar mindset. It's not a dynamic I can recall having pop up in any serious relationship I've had.

Well said. Viewing my significant other as my equal won't be possible if she is subordinate to me, regardless of how people try to pass it off as fulfilling "different but equal" roles. 

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps this discussion would be clearer, if people gave examples of what they meant by "being the leader in the relationship". Like, what does the "leader" do. 

There are quite a number of areas where I prefer to defer and leave all the decisions up to my wife. That includes decisions such as what groceries to buy and how to do the housework and also where to go on holiday, which hotels and flights to book etc. I also leave it up to her to organize family gatherings & outings because I am terrible at things like that.

I see her as the "leader" in these sorts of matters. However, she doesn't. She says that she is serving as my "secretary". Perspectives, perspectives .....

 

Edited by Major Chord

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Posted (edited)

This forum is so politically correct and left leaning that it shouldn't surprise me that "Neither" is killing it in the polls.

I've never once met a woman who doesn't like the man to lead. Ever.
Unless females in Australia have a fucked up view of relationships, the man leads in almost every way that is considered reasonable.

Having said that, leading doesn't mean dominating.
E.g. "We are going to X for dinner tomorrow". If she doesn't like it, she offers a suggestion "We've had Y cuisine too much, how about Z?"

It's not like:
"We are going to X for dinner tomorrow" and if she doesn't like it "How about instead of X we go to -" "NO SHUT THE FUCK IM IN CONTROL"

Edited by demoniaco

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29 minutes ago, demoniaco said:



I've never once met a woman who doesn't like the man to lead. Ever.

Oh there are various possible explanations for that. E.g you haven't met that many women. Or you like to lead, therefore tend to attract women who are followers.

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Posted (edited)

I voted "Neither", as I find the whole question of which gender is "supposed" to be the leader in a relationship to be a ridiculous one. I see no reason to force that type of dynamic on any relationship. In my opinion, if a "leader/follower" dynamic emerges within a relationship, it should be a natural development based on the characteristics of the persons in that relationship (e.g. their strengths and weaknesses) and how they complement each other. And in that case, the "leader" may not always be the man - or the woman, for that matter. The dynamic can also shift depending on the situation. 

I am personally turned off by the whole "leader/follower" dynamic when it comes to relationships... and I have no interest in being with someone who tries to impose that way of living on me. I honestly would prefer to be alone than to be in a relationship where that type of dynamic was constantly present. I'd rather not have someone I'm in a relationship with trying to make decisions for me or steer me in the direction that they want me to go, and it's not really my preference to do the same to them either. I would prefer to get together with someone who has a similar mindset to my own, otherwise I would prefer to just be single. 

Paloma described a relationship where "leadership is absent", and I think that would be my personal preference as well. 

Edited by RachelSomething
Added a word for more precision...

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On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 0:58 PM, Holli said:

And how many women have you, personally, known?

ftfy ^^ I'm all about asking the right question. 

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6 hours ago, demoniaco said:

This forum is so politically correct and left leaning that it shouldn't surprise me that "Neither" is killing it in the polls.

I've never once met a woman who doesn't like the man to lead. Ever.

...the man leads in almost every way that is considered reasonable.

Exactly. If anything the poll results just goes to show us how out of sync liberal mentality is with reality.  People are so obsessed with the notion that men and women are 100% equals in every way that on the off chance "leading" might be conflated with "superiority," people vote "neither" in the polls. 

In terms of willingness to initiate men are the undisputed leaders in virtually every way. Each and every time I'm the one striking up the conversation, I'm the one trying to get the number, I'm the one trying to set up a date and then I'm the one trying to "lead her" back to the bedroom. This is what I do, and in terms of dictating the pace that this all happens women have 100% of the power. Contrary to what the liberals would like to believe, saying that women don't ever want to take the lead isn't a bash on gender equality; it's an evidence based observation that would be further supported by their hardwired biology. 

The problem of course comes with the wording of the question. Technically no one is "supposed to be" the leader in relationships, though based on their actions women would still vastly prefer men to be the "leaders" in relationships. As such, for the sake of accuracy the question might be alternatively worded as: "Who do you prefer the to be the leader in relationships? the man or the woman?"

4 hours ago, RachelSomething said:

I have no interest in being with someone who tries to impose that way of living on me.

Even then though "leading" would still be misinterpreted, and I'll thank Rachel for providing such an obvious example. In this context, "leading" has nothing to do with imposing a way of living upon someone else, and the fact that she so readily conflates these concepts speaks wonders about the rampant liberalism on the forum. 

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16 minutes ago, Deprecator said:

out of sync liberal mentality is with reality

18 minutes ago, Deprecator said:

Contrary to what the liberals would like to believe

18 minutes ago, Deprecator said:

rampant liberalism on the forum

"The liberals" aren't a hive mind and have different opinions and views on the topic, as individuals.

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22 minutes ago, Holli said:

"The liberals" aren't a hive mind and have different opinions and views on the topic, as individuals.

Homo sapiens aren't a hive mind and have different opinions and views on topics, and yet taxonomists still believe a label is warranted. Similarity, the liberal label may or may not be "justified," but regardless it's still used to communicate specific trends and generalities within an ideology, and it's not meant to make blanket assumptions on all individuals who self-identify as liberal. All the same, I must tell you that if there was even the slightest chance that accepting your view would make me less unattractive in your eyes then rest assured I'd wholeheartedly embrace it.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Deprecator said:

Even then though "leading" would still be misinterpreted, and I'll thank Rachel for providing such an obvious example. In this context, "leading" has nothing to do with imposing a way of living upon someone else, and the fact that she so readily conflates these concepts speaks wonders about the rampant liberalism on the forum. 

Quit trying to make my post about your petty little issues with liberalism. :rolleyes: I never said that all relationships with a leader/follower dynamic involve imposing on another person, nor did I say that all persons who prefer to "lead" in their relationships are imposing on others. But if someone I was in a relationship with tried to push that type of dynamic onto me (especially with that whole "Men are supposed to lead in relationships!" argument) then that relationship would not last. I even made a distinction between that type of relationship and those where a leader/follower dynamic develops naturally (mentioned in the first paragraph of my post that you quoted, if you even bothered to read the whole thing...) and I still do not see it being a natural emergence in a relationship with me, since that is really not my kind of thing to begin with. 

And none of that's got anything to do with "rampant liberalism on the forum". It's just one random person's opinion and preference. 

Edited by RachelSomething
Fixing a typo...

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23 minutes ago, Deprecator said:

Homo sapiens aren't a hive mind and have different opinions and views on topics, and yet taxonomists still believe a label is warranted. Similarity, the liberal label may or may not be "justified," but regardless it's still used to communicate specific trends and generalities within an ideology, and it's not meant to make blanket assumptions on all individuals who self-identify as liberal. All the same, I must tell you that if there was even the slightest chance that accepting your view would make me less unattractive in your eyes then rest assured I'd wholeheartedly embrace it.

When you're referring to liberalism on the forum, I think it would be best to allow people to speak for themselves.  I doubt that most, if any, of the liberals on this forum think that men and women are "100% equals in every way" (as in "the same", not undeserving of equal rights).  The people who answered "Neither" likely understand that not every situation/couple is the same.  There are plenty of women who prefer to lead (to initiate, to dictate) and there are plenty of men that prefer to be led.  Whether or not most men lead or most women prefer men to lead, if you read the thread, the OP makes specific statements that show he believes it to be impossible that some women may prefer to lead and that she couldn't be truly happy to be the leader.  I think that's nonsense.  It's not black and white.  I also didn't associate "superiority" with this topic in any way.

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On 6/19/2017 at 0:02 PM, Holli said:

There are plenty of women who prefer to lead (to initiate, to dictate) and there are plenty of men that prefer to be led.  

Yes this is a very common tactic... whenever an argument is based on a trend, refute this claim with by mentioning exceptions as if it might any way undermine or discredit the said trend. To borrow an example I've used elsewhere, if I argued that lung cancer was a trend with cigarette smoking, would an individual claiming that they've smoked their entire life and never got lung cancer in any way discredit the originally cited trend? Absolutely not, the trend still holds regardless of whether or not you can cite a minority of individuals who don't fit the pattern.

Also, seriously? First you claim that there are plenty of women interested in NSA sex and now you're claiming that there are plenty of women who like to initiate and lead in relationships? Look Holli, I don't know what world you think you're living in, maybe there's vampires, fairy dragons, big foots, unicorns and other mystical creatures within it, but for the life of me I cannot understand how you're reaching your conclusions, and if anything you're just proving my point: liberal mentality is grossly out of sync with reality.

And clearly it's not just me: 

On 6/19/2017 at 3:37 AM, demoniaco said:

I've never once met a woman who doesn't like the man to lead. Ever.

 

 
 
...... added to this post 0 minutes later:
 
On 6/19/2017 at 11:57 AM, RachelSomething said:

It's just one random person's opinion and preference. 

Okay fine. I guess it's just a coincidence then that a person's opinions or preferences might consistently align with certain political factions. My apologies. 

Edited by Deprecator

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Even within the confines of traditional relationships, you'll note that the females lead in different ways. It's that with the patriarchy, the areas where females did lead were minimalised to insignificance.

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45 minutes ago, Deprecator said:

Yes this is a very common tactic... whenever an argument is based on a trend, refute this claim with by mentioning exceptions as if it might any way undermine or discredit the said trend. To borrow an example I've used elsewhere, if I argued that lung cancer was a trend with cigarette smoking, would an individual claiming that they've smoked their entire life and never got lung cancer in any way discredit the originally cited trend? Absolutely not, the trend still holds regardless of whether or not you can cite a minority of individuals who don't fit the pattern.

Also, seriously? First you claim that there are plenty of women interested in NSA sex and now you're claiming that there are plenty of women who like to initiate and lead in relationships? Look Holli, I don't know what world you think you're living in, maybe there's vampires, fairy dragons, big foots, unicorns and other mystical creatures within it, but for the life of me I cannot understand how you're reaching you conclusions, and if anything you're just proving my point: liberal mentality is grossly out of sync with reality.

And clearly it's not just me: 

I'm not mentioning exceptions to discredit a trend.  I clearly stated that the OP believed there are no exceptions.  This isn't the only thread/situation where he's had this or similar opinions.  He's actually gone so far as to call me a liar because my actual reality/relationships didn't mesh with his delusions (not on this topic).  Trends are one thing ... but some people actually believe that trends and stereotypes are the way it always is or should be.

I may be confusing him with someone else, but I seem to recall demoniaco (who you quoted) being a kind of traditional/masculine type of guy.  Why would he experience the type of woman who prefers to lead?  I can tell by talking to or interacting with a guy if he's someone who "initiates" or if he's someone who prefers the woman to make the move.  If a woman who prefers to lead can sense that a man also does, then she probably wouldn't initiate or be interested, so of course he's going to believe that all women he's encountered preferred the man to lead.

And I will rescind my use of the word "plenty", if it makes you feel better, because I don't actually mean "an abundant amount".  I believe you're thinking I'm talking about a higher percentage than I actually am.  

 

 

 

And what do you mean?  Vampires, dragons, and unicorns SO exist.  Next you're going to tell me there's no Santa.  *scoffs*

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The majority of the general population are SJs who are prone to adhere to conventional wisdumbs and traditions so it's unsurprising why there might be conventional/traditional trends.  This site is primarily comprised of iNtuitives so it's unsurprising how the females don't adhere to convention/traditions.

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3 hours ago, Holli said:

And I will rescind my use of the word "plenty", if it makes you feel better

Given your repeated claims that you find me unattractive, it is simply amazing that you would alter your word choice solely for the sake of making me feel better. Even if on a personal level I'd prefer you to alter your word usage for the sake of accuracy, it still really means a lot to me that you'd be so forthcoming about your consideration for my feelings. In doing so you have confirmed one my my greatest suspicions about you; that there is far more to you than what originally meets the eye. 

3 hours ago, Holli said:

because I don't actually mean "an abundant amount".

Out of curiosity, what did you actually mean then if not for "plenty"? When you say "plenty" did you really mean "an absurdly low amount that it's hardly worth mentioning"? And was this word choice used solely out of fear that the OP might be thinking in absolutes, and so as a result you felt the need to exaggerate this absurdly small amount and call it "plenty" instead? 

How very deceptive of you. And coincidentally, not completely unlike extremists who are so resolute with the belief that they're right that they feel justified to lie or exaggerate when confronted with a dissenting view point.

Edited by Deprecator

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The baby.

The baby will tell the man and the woman how long they can sleep, when they can go out of the house, what places they can go, when they can shower, when they can go to the bathroom, etc.

 

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