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BostonIan

Red-Pillers, What Catalyzed Your Adoption of the Ideology?

155 posts in this topic
1 hour ago, Distance said:

In other words, TRP is a predatory movement that shields with victim mentality by blaming Feminism for their personal woes. Quite the clusterfuck of cognitive dissonance. I can see why this movement would appeal to a goodly number of INTJ males since they're prone to substantial ego defense shield walls.

Distance, perhaps you'd be easier to understand if you dropped the pretentious try hard psychobabble from your vocabulary.  

How is what you highlighted controversial?  Everyone tries to act in what they perceive their best interests in all facets of life - your claim to Mother Theresa-hood notwithstanding.  We all have limitations in the efficacy of how are actions affect those interests and our perceptions of what those interests are though.

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15 minutes ago, icon41gimp said:

Distance, perhaps you'd be easier to understand if you dropped the pretentious try hard psychobabble from your vocabulary.  

How is what you highlighted controversial?  Everyone tries to act in what they perceive their best interests in all facets of life - your claim to Mother Theresa-hood notwithstanding.  We all have limitations in the efficacy of how are actions affect those interests and our perceptions of what those interests are though.

Meh, that's a strawman since I never stated that it was controversial or any claim to being a martyr/saint.  But when a movement fails the same bars that it sets up for feminism, then that exceeds reasonable levels of self-interest and moves into raging hypocrisy territory.

Simply admit that TRPers are raging self-centric assholes and have done with it.

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TRP fulfills INTJ Te-aux lusts because on some general level "it works" because it's about power dynamics, and INTJ love seeing things work. It's self-validating that way.

Where is fails is that it probably leads to INTJ Fi-rot. There is some Fi-looping ego-stroking victim complex involved that in general makes such INTJ (and other types) who are too into this "movement" insufferable and just.. extremely stupid.

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On 4/26/2017 at 0:21 PM, icon41gimp said:

Distance, perhaps you'd be easier to understand if you dropped the pretentious try hard psychobabble from your vocabulary.  

How is what you highlighted controversial?  Everyone tries to act in what they perceive their best interests in all facets of life - your claim to Mother Theresa-hood notwithstanding.  We all have limitations in the efficacy of how are actions affect those interests and our perceptions of what those interests are though.

Did it occur to you that nobody wants a relationship with someone who has a serious attitude problem? 

If you believe the purpose of a relationship is for both sides to attempt to manipulate each other for their own advantage, it's no wonder you're having so many difficulties. 

A couple is a team. 

 
 
...... added to this post 10 minutes later:
 
On 4/19/2017 at 0:45 AM, elsdfr said:

Which is why I pointed out the modern feminism is also destructive and why they are in many ways just reflections of each other.

 

1700 females responded.. pubmed is a bit low on red-pill content.

 

By traditional I mean first-wave, but by strict definition and if you are serious then being pro-marriage kind of disqualifies you as being a traditionalist.

 

Well where is your 'scientific methodology regarding your assertion that red-pillers are 'destructive' and shitty'?

All I have really seen is "I've got myself a unicorn, therefore those red-pillers are stupid".. but from my understanding, I don't think RPs want unicorns, picket fences and marital bliss.  

Demanding scientific evidence after all of the baseless assertions you have made so far is a bit rich, but hey, I'll play along..

Look at this: Please login or register to see this link.

Women's Sexual Strategies: The Evolution of Long-Term Bonds and  Extrapair Sex

Please login or register to see this link.

 

I'll break down their conclusions and attach the relevant TRP lingo where appropriate:

Across all cultures, women deploy a dualistic sexual strategy: Coupling (beta bux) and Dual Mating (alpha fucks)

Coupling (beta bux), meaning the formation of a long-term 'monogamous' relationship with a provider, is necessitated by human infants requiring long years of high resource expenditure before they are independent.

Evidence indicates that for the purpose of Coupling (beta bux), women seek out men that display characteristics like ability to provide (bux), kindness and reliability. When selection is constrained, women will prioritize the ability to provide (bux).

Women will display Commitment Skepticism (shit testing and comfort testing) with their Coupling partner (beta bux), requesting a variety of displays on his part (failed shit tests) to gaurantee he'll be willing to commit once they have coupled (and she's likely pregnant). This is because a wrong investment on the woman's part would prove disastrous for her, leaving her without her Coupling mate's resources (beta bux).

Dual Mating (alpha fucks) is a strategy in which women seek to reproduce with men offering better genes (alpha) than their Coupling partner (beta), while retaining the commitment (bux) of the Coupling partner

Women are specifically drawn to Dual Matin during the fertile phase of the ovulatory cycle, and women in long-term relationships display a larger attraction to Dual Mating than otherwise

For dual mating, women prefer men with the following (alpha) characteristics: body and facil symmetry, facial masculinity (large jaw, prominent brow), dominance, deeper voice, physical size (in relation to their partner)

Evidence of Dual Mating is the adaptation to sperm competition (the relatively large-sized testes in men follow the pattern in other primates of larger testes = more sperm competition), the commonality of extrapair mating (cheating, with around 20% of women admitting to at least one lifetime instance), and the development of jealousy (which is not ubiquitous among primates) in males, including to the point of violence

Conclusions:

alpha fucks, beta bucks is evolutionarily ingrained in human females and guarantees their best reproductive success

the scientific evidence for it is multi-dimensional and overwhelming

alpha and beta characteristics are hardwired, not cultural; cultural and social context can add something on top but can never replace or overcome instinctual behaviour

LIFT, become assertive and learn to speak with a proper voice

Please login or register to see this link.

 

So now we have evidence of red-pillers using this evolutionary psychology in order to make themselves more attractive.

Not to mention, females have their own methods of making themselves more attractive, so why can't red-pillers? Why is appealing to the other sex, in whatever way, suddenly bad when men do it?

And when does red-pill cross 'the line' (in your opinion), and become a destructive ideology? Rather than simply being individual cases of damaged and toxic individuals hiding a behind movement of which you want to tarnish the whole group.

 

 

This is flawed logic. Red pillers don't fit either of these categories. They are neither alpha nor responsible betas. 

Most of these men are completely unwilling to provide, incapable, emotionally unavailable, and weak minded. 

Since they are also not physically competitive, they cannot ever be the alpha. 

Red pills are men who pretend to be Betas. They are trying to convince women they are good enough to settle for. Because most of them aren't even good enough that women would even consider them as a stable partner in the first place. 

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Posted (edited)

#1. I don't identify as an RP'er and I by and large equate it to radical 3rd wave feminism...which I think is hi-jacked philosophy that sprung from the correct initial gender rights movement(s) like 1st wave feminists.

That said, early in my own adult life once I started dating I too recognized that the curtain needs to be pulled away from this false notion that women aren't or can't be just like men. Manipulative, attention seeking, inconsistent, hypergamous, selfish, arrogant, entitled, etc.. It's just that they play the game differently and the deck is stacked in their favour in western civilization in those critical years when everyone is making critical life decisions (career, marriage, etc.). I saw a need for a proper Men's movement to address and counter balance these inequities and sort some things out that are applicable to the actual real world we are living in which is no longer the 1950's. 

But what sprung from that were things like the RP and MGTOW and I think they both miss the mark in critical ways. I find their philosophy repulsive, as I find 3rd wave feminists repulsive. 

All you have to do I think is simply look past gender and see that everyone is a human being and we are driven towards different things but just because women are naturally socially manipulative doesn't mean that men aren't...it just plays out different because their interests/gender roles in society are different. These philosophies are driving us further and further apart ultimately I think as they are inherently antagonistic and selfish in nature...and also blind and unwilling to identify and settle on an equitable balance by positioning the follower in a pretentious position of transforming their entire personality to that of a committed method actor. It's just weird.

 

Edited by EndGame

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