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BostonIan

Red-Pillers, What Catalyzed Your Adoption of the Ideology?

41 posts in this topic

Thinking more on this, I suspect many men pedestalize women and then have to "hate" them to generate the necessary downward force to have a real relationship with them.

The conclusion that despite attraction and fantasy, women can be shitbags just like men seems like one worth reaching, though that may be a ugly process.

Perhaps love isn't real or whatever but I've always heard that love persists in spite of flaws, not due to a lack of them. Once one has fallen from the pedestal can you still love them? Is it worthwhile to try? That might be the key moral question for redpillers and the like. Like yeah you hate them for not being what you hoped for but after that dust settles what is a woman worth to you? In my dumb optimism I still reckon most of these guys will "love" again. Yeah, I know, barf.

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"I was nice to women to be a decent being and not just to get in their pants, but they still wouldn't sex me. Bitches." - TRPers

At least be honest with yourselves, if not with anyone else. My main problem with the movement is that it attracts defectives, both the men and a large number of their marks/sexual partners. No one I've ever met who seemed chill and attractive bought into TRP. Seems to be for uggos, poors, and dumbs.

Edited by Weltschmerzer

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I find it curious that men who hate/mistrust women (dem bishes) revolve their lives around them while claiming dominance over them! :laugh:

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On 3/16/2017 at 11:07 PM, Soobpar said:

If your red pilling is based on a desire to understand then learn up, if it's based on bitterness, then grow up.

/thread. because boom, correct. and all anyone needs to know.

On 3/19/2017 at 9:54 PM, BostonIan said:

Cool answers given, so I'll play. For me, Red Pill just rings truer than conventional dating advice. When I listen to healthy, functional people give their wholesome relationship advice, I chuckle in my head thinking about certain people and situations.

From the first, I'd always noticed that many of the sought-after women tended to end up involved with rougher kinds of guy, the names-changing story of women ending up in bad spots due to attractions that worked against their interests. Because: "love!" Always, of course. Gangsters' wives also stuck in my head as a riddle to be solved - the ones I knew were almost always sweet, semi-sane, and devoted.

I'm low-empathy and social enough to experiment on people, and did some of that in my teens. Acting like a horrible human worked fairly well for drawing kindness out, better than kindness itself; insults also worked better than compliments to get a date. I could pit some groups of friends against eachother, and barter different girls' affections to get to some target. Party tricks for ego and an odd hookup, but there was a counterintuitive social system that could be hacked. 

Long-term dating, when it happened, was a sabbatical. Depending on the couple, it's possible to have Blue-Pill in your relationships and not get eaten by pirañas. Softer skills also work, and it's been odd to see Game evolve to wrestle with things like massage, music, cuddling, and vulnerability.

Shorter-term dating, though, is very Red. You spend time with someone else's current, former, and future darlings - and most idealization doesn't survive inspection. Also, the more you date, it gets incredibly arbitrary what the market rewards. Toggling Beard, Hair Length, and Clothing Style can flip the attraction switch in either direction. Other varyingly inane triggers: obscure physical skills, having an accent, knowing a topic, wearing a color. Like a bird finding bright ribbons during mating season. 

Fun, in your spare time, to dig through the murk on some biomechanical and psychological lines of thought - the tend & befriend stress response, estrogen's impact on oxytocin vs testosterone's, hybristophilia, Coolidge effect, novelty, imprinting, brain structures and hormones related to social hierarchy, animal mating behaviors involving hierarchies and/or aggression.

Trade-offs. I've lost women to BP men. I've taken women from BP men. Objectively, I'm not a good partner - arrogant, selfish, prone to cheating. Objectively, I've never had a bad partner. Some women are immune. Many women don't fit the paradigm in action or intent. Some women really do need you to trust first and be real or nothing happens and you lose out.

Both sides, BP and RP, own a piece of reality. We won't know the full stats breakdown until FaceGoogle starts live-streaming everybody's daily lives. The older I get, it seems like RP owns the base impulses, BP owns the sublimation of them and the muting of them.

 

i admire that you've taken such an intelligent, empirical, scienc'ish approach. <--- not mockery

usually i stay out of these threads. but this one does seem less douchey.

the main thing i don't like is right there in soobpar's statement, on both sides of it. most of those young hetero dudes coveting pussy don't want to confront the undercurrents of bitterness and misogyny. and everyone else doesn't want to confront unsavory information that is (regrettably) fairly valid.

an interesting side note is that young hetero dudes coveting pussy, who feel lightly about the context rather than bitterly, who like women in their foibles rather than resent them, will get way more pussy. it's not that women like a sense of humor per se. it's that it's exhilarating to feel freed. for men too.

the human animal is a human animal. no amount of metacognition will free you from that part. suppose some hot, super smart, super self-aware female sends me a photo of herself in a string bikini. let's assume that i know all of the things that this may yet mean, and may never mean. let's assume that she knows too.

i know that she knows that i know that she knows that i know that she knows that...

...in one respect, this type of understanding is extra sexy on top of the extra sexy...

...but we're still left in the same context as if we were ignorant: what shall i do? shall i choose to be grateful for what she shared? shall i choose to dislike being provoked so unsubtly (i can choose what i will do, but i can't really choose not to be provoked internally) ? of course i don't ever have to answer these questions, but i have no say in that they were brought to me.

 

i believe in angler fish and cuckoo birds more than i believe in souls. i can see that driving hapless folks to mechanistic solutions. 

but what if a couple of dolphins or crows really love each other?

way more better.

 

 

 

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Quote

"Red Pill" signifies the recognition of the true nature of female behavior, including her attraction to traits of dominance, preference for men with status, attraction to men who have been pre-selected by other women, and hypergamous nature.

Um...I'm interested primarily in dudes, but still...duh. Life isn't an ABC sitcom.

 

To paraphrase my partner, I'm a vindictive asshole who thinks about sex and fighting far too much, yet paradoxically that seems to have caused a number of people to fall in-love with me. I don't see that as some special philosophy, just that if you want anything in you life you must fight for it. 

If you wait around for good things to happen because you're a nice/kind/gentle person, you'll be waiting for a long time.

 

 

 
 
...... added to this post 3 minutes later:
 
3 hours ago, Whoops said:

...but we're still left in the same context as if we were ignorant: what shall i do? shall i choose to be grateful for what she shared? shall i choose to dislike being provoked so unsubtly (i can choose what i will do, but i can't really choose not to be provoked internally) ? of course i don't ever have to answer these questions, but i have no say in that they were brought to me.

You're overthinking things above. If you like what she has to offer, be proactive and take it. Gratitude or dislike doesn't factor in.

 

A funny thing I've discovered: if you tell someone that you would fuck them, and want to fuck them...you'll end up fucking them. Most of the time, at least.

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On 3/19/2017 at 9:54 PM, BostonIan said:

Cool answers given, so I'll play. For me, Red Pill just rings truer than conventional dating advice. When I listen to healthy, functional people give their wholesome relationship advice, I chuckle in my head thinking about certain people and situations.

From the first, I'd always noticed that many of the sought-after women tended to end up involved with rougher kinds of guy, the names-changing story of women ending up in bad spots due to attractions that worked against their interests. Because: "love!" Always, of course. Gangsters' wives also stuck in my head as a riddle to be solved - the ones I knew were almost always sweet, semi-sane, and devoted.

I'm low-empathy and social enough to experiment on people, and did some of that in my teens. Acting like a horrible human worked fairly well for drawing kindness out, better than kindness itself; insults also worked better than compliments to get a date. I could pit some groups of friends against eachother, and barter different girls' affections to get to some target. Party tricks for ego and an odd hookup, but there was a counterintuitive social system that could be hacked. 

Long-term dating, when it happened, was a sabbatical. Depending on the couple, it's possible to have Blue-Pill in your relationships and not get eaten by pirañas. Softer skills also work, and it's been odd to see Game evolve to wrestle with things like massage, music, cuddling, and vulnerability.

Shorter-term dating, though, is very Red. You spend time with someone else's current, former, and future darlings - and most idealization doesn't survive inspection. Also, the more you date, it gets incredibly arbitrary what the market rewards. Toggling Beard, Hair Length, and Clothing Style can flip the attraction switch in either direction. Other varyingly inane triggers: obscure physical skills, having an accent, knowing a topic, wearing a color. Like a bird finding bright ribbons during mating season. 

Fun, in your spare time, to dig through the murk on some biomechanical and psychological lines of thought - the tend & befriend stress response, estrogen's impact on oxytocin vs testosterone's, hybristophilia, Coolidge effect, novelty, imprinting, brain structures and hormones related to social hierarchy, animal mating behaviors involving hierarchies and/or aggression.

Trade-offs. I've lost women to BP men. I've taken women from BP men. Objectively, I'm not a good partner - arrogant, selfish, prone to cheating. Objectively, I've never had a bad partner. Some women are immune. Many women don't fit the paradigm in action or intent. Some women really do need you to trust first and be real or nothing happens and you lose out.

Both sides, BP and RP, own a piece of reality. We won't know the full stats breakdown until FaceGoogle starts live-streaming everybody's daily lives. The older I get, it seems like RP owns the base impulses, BP owns the sublimation of them and the muting of them.

 

If so, why are there so few distinctly male or female brains?

http://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468.full

Quote

 

Significance

Sex/gender differences in the brain are of high social interest because their presence is typically assumed to prove that humans belong to two distinct categories not only in terms of their genitalia, and thus justify differential treatment of males and females. Here we show that, although there are sex/gender differences in brain and behavior, humans and human brains are comprised of unique “mosaics” of features, some more common in females compared with males, some more common in males compared with females, and some common in both females and males. Our results demonstrate that regardless of the cause of observed sex/gender differences in brain and behavior (nature or nurture), human brains cannot be categorized into two distinct classes: male brain/female brain.

Abstract

Whereas a categorical difference in the genitals has always been acknowledged, the question of how far these categories extend into human biology is still not resolved. Documented sex/gender differences in the brain are often taken as support of a sexually dimorphic view of human brains (“female brain” or “male brain”). However, such a distinction would be possible only if sex/gender differences in brain features were highly dimorphic (i.e., little overlap between the forms of these features in males and females) and internally consistent (i.e., a brain has only “male” or only “female” features). Here, analysis of MRIs of more than 1,400 human brains from four datasets reveals extensive overlap between the distributions of females and males for all gray matter, white matter, and connections assessed. Moreover, analyses of internal consistency reveal that brains with features that are consistently at one end of the “maleness-femaleness” continuum are rare. Rather, most brains are comprised of unique “mosaics” of features, some more common in females compared with males, some more common in males compared with females, and some common in both females and males. Our findings are robust across sample, age, type of MRI, and method of analysis. These findings are corroborated by a similar analysis of personality traits, attitudes, interests, and behaviors of more than 5,500 individuals, which reveals that internal consistency is extremely rare. Our study demonstrates that, although there are sex/gender differences in the brain, human brains do not belong to one of two distinct categories: male brain/female brain.

 

Notice all the crossovers and how the vast majority of brains reside in the intermediate zone?

F1.medium.gif

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I thought the reddit site was an interesting read (albeit hyper-focused on sex) until I got the the small paragraph saying "Reminder: No doesn’t always means no, it means keep going or try again later. But no does sometimes means stop. Know the difference." Big glaring red flags here!

I was open to the idea and understood where this came from but I see a lot of issues with the philosophy.

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I've yet to determine if it is right about there being significant differences between the genders, but I like that alot of the content is like dog training for people. 

Edited by Sk8ordude

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Red Pill Philosophy =  Pua Angst Culture = MGTOW.  

Nothing new. Nothing compelling. Same emotion spurred. Same reaction to that emotion. 

The main take from all this:  

Regardless of our hormonal tides, most boys (often the non-super-popular kids) grow up with some honest form of chivalry in their hearts. 

As we grow, Chivalry clashes with Reality. For those in the lower 75% range of attraction...reality often hurts. Reality can make you feel stupid and embarrassed. The few with a pump-dumping mindset since freshman year HS avoid this clash. College and beyond is their playground, and they play the game well.  You don't play it well. Worse, you've never treated it like a game, which suddenly means you're a stupid beta white-knight pussy.  Feelings ensue. 

What's funny, is the response: The extreme objectification of females. If you can't love em with your heart, fuck em. Literally and metaphorically.

The realm of attraction shifts from an emotional event, to a logical game. Something to be deduced and exploited. 

A hilariously predictable experience to behold, often leading to a malignant growth of character. You won't become a suave happy motherfucker, or some revamped, driven, Brad Pitt-esque persona taking life by the balls all of a sudden. You're chewing on the wrong foot fellas. Tainted meat. RIP Bob.

Edited by Socra Maat
typo

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18 hours ago, eagleseven said:

A funny thing I've discovered: if you tell someone that you would fuck them, and want to fuck them...you'll end up fucking them. Most of the time, at least.

i find this mostly to be so. but it may say more about the specific humans (the one choosing and the ones chosen) than it says about 'humankind'.

Edited by Whoops

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