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BostonIan

Red-Pillers, What Catalyzed Your Adoption of the Ideology?

155 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

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There's another active thread psychoanalyzing Red-Pillers, and it might be a useful for Red-Pillers to share in that analysis. So, tell us the story.

What factors do you think led to your adoption of the Red Pill philosophy? What made the philosophy compelling, when did the transition happen?

I'll play if this gets a few earnest responses. Feel free to ignore the off-topic trolling, the main threadline should be the factors leading up to and reinforcing the choice of philosophy.

 

For the uninitiated, the top 'Urban Dictionary' definition for "Red Pill".

Quote

"Red Pill" signifies the recognition of the true nature of female behavior, including her attraction to traits of dominance, preference for men with status, attraction to men who have been pre-selected by other women, and hypergamous nature.

Red Pill men are aware that women are strongly influenced by the culture and that their attraction cues are often outside of their conscious awareness. Increasingly, modern women, and especially Western women, indulge in one-night stands and short-term relationship in their 20s with alpha males, followed by seeking out a beta male provider in their late 20s and early 30s.

Red Pill men are aware of this phenomenon and develop a sexual strategy to benefit from a woman's promiscuity as well as avoid the financial peril of marriage. Married men can also be Red Pill, as their awareness helps them handle female [fitness] tests and maintain attraction with their partner.

A man who has taken the Red Pill is committed to self-improvement and adapting to the reality of female behavior whether that be through the application of game in his relationships and/or withdrawing from LTRs.

Edited by BostonIan

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Posted (edited)

I don't know what you're hoping to get from this, but if want to actually understand it just break it down part by part.

attraction to traits of dominance

Who isn't swayed by dominance? Even men gravitate to charismatic leaders. It's comforting following an influential persons lead, especially if you agree with them on core beliefs.

preference for men with status

Society values status, power dynamics effect every relationship whether you want them too or not.

attraction to men who have been pre-selected by other women

If 9/10 dentists recommend Colgate aren't you going to use it? It's a reasonable shortcut and humans gravitate to what they see their peers valuing.

Hypergamous nature

Not a women thing, Men are the biggest social climbers of all.

Guess my overall point is that women are human too, we're all influenced by shit we don't control. The best way to "red pill" yourself is understand people are driven by fundamentally irrational forces. If your red pilling is based on a desire to understand then learn up, if it's based on bitterness, then grow up.

And to answer your actual question, I wouldn't consider myself a red piller per se, but the idea is somewhat based on truth considering the "progressive" direction society is going that tries to ignore out basic human tendencies. What convinced me was seeing people deny gender differences because of the way our current society values (and in some people's eyes over-values) male traits, even though men are statistically much less happy and healthy than women. We obviously have a problem and the solution isn't funding more diversion garbage.

Edited by Soobpar

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It doesn't seem like a red pill, just another layer of delusion spurred on by people that want to spread their own bitter world views onto others. What's the point of keeping yourself trapped in a cycle of negativity like that?

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9 minutes ago, Soobpar said:

I don't know what you're hoping to get from this..

Self-aware stories, with pronouns and past tenses. When would you have started agreeing with the statements above, and what factors do you believe contributed?

 
 
...... added to this post 2 minutes later:
 
4 minutes ago, catzama said:

It doesn't seem like a red pill, just another layer of delusion spurred on by people that want to spread their own bitter world views onto others. What's the point of keeping yourself trapped in a cycle of negativity like that?

Off-topic.

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6 minutes ago, BostonIan said:

Self-aware stories, with pronouns and past tenses. When would you have started agreeing with the statements above, and what factors do you believe contributed?

Gosh, if you wanted to have a circle jerk you could've saved yourself the extra effort and whipped yours out first.

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25 minutes ago, BostonIan said:

Self-aware stories, with pronouns and past tenses. When would you have started agreeing with the statements above, and what factors do you believe contributed?

 

Well "the statement above" just describes human nature. Is it necessarily meaningful/valuable that men put a disproportionate amount of value on a woman's physical attractiveness? Or is that just human nature? Red pilling loses me when it obsesses over the sexual aspect of gender diversity, if that's all you care about I think you'd find sociopathy more appealing.

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Posted (edited)

Redpill: A group of dinosaurs from the victorian era that require justification for being the man hating cuck that plays gimp to a SJW woman in this less than objective politically correct generation.

Example: That guy at a party whom rants loudly beating his chest about hypothetical women that he has never met then pretends he is a waiter when any girl so much as flutters her eyelashes his way. Possibly Bipolar, definitely masochistic.

Perhaps INFP? I have never seen an INFP in a situation they could not weasel out. They are so charismatic that I could see them having a complete meltdown when an unstoppable force meets an immovable ice queen.

If they are in fact INFP then I am most likely far too sober and reading this literature all wrong. If I switch the man with the woman and tried masturbating while crying maybe it would make more sense... This is getting far too theoretical for me! Peace out guys.

Edited by Dohavior

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I will bite on this.  For the record, I'm not a red piller or a MGTOW (maybe I am, I've just deluded myself into thinking I'm not), so the only question of the 3 you've asked that apply to myself is the "What made the philosophy compelling"?  

There was a time after I was cheated on for the umpteenth time and had another long term relationship end, all while watching my friends go through hell with their divorces,  that I went looking for answers, externally.  I started reading books like "They Myth of Monogamy", or digesting infidelity statistics as I would try to match objective observation with my subjective experiences in the quest for wisdom.

The information I exposed myself too often led me to other angry men like MGTOW or red pillers,  men who were blaming an entire gender for their own failures.  It was easy and lazy to find this community compelling.

Around the same time, I discovered INTJforum and in the G&A and R&D sections, this topic was/is hot around here.  The critical thinkers here, my people, especially my women people, set me straight pretty quickly.    

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Let's see... I'll start by telling you that I'm not a full-blown TRPer. I still have a lot of work to do, but adopting the beliefs has gotten me far more success than I ever had before. 

I can tell you the catalyzing moment for me, directly followed an incident you can find here Please login or register to see this link.  but that was just the final incident. Like anything there's context required. 

I was never much of a socialite. In middle school to freshman year high school, I got pinned with a burden that would make me a social untouchable. This made me miss out on years of necessary social practice, what I would call the "fitting in" years. I never learned to fit in, like the rest of middle schoolers. I became close friends with a group of oddballs in high school, at which point I basically fell in adolescent love with a girl in the friend group which lasted the rest of high school, we'll call her R. Never ever admitted I liked her. I met a brilliant, beautiful ginger 'N' by cosmic chance at a friends party I wasn't going to attend 2nd year. We connected immediately, liked all the same things, thought and felt the same way. She was my first girlfriend and first kiss. I was so feminism brainwashed that I was too afraid to ask her out on dates, because I thought "that'd mean I only want to sleep with her". So after months of doing nothing, she broke it off. Today N's still the gold standard in my life that I doubt any girl will ever match me better. 

At the end of high school I started to realize that 3 friends in the group had crushes on me. I was dense as a rock though, so I never took those anywhere and really didn't connect the dots until College. I decided to go away to college to get away from my divorce-grieving mother. 1st semester I decided to delete my facebook and disappear from the lives of all my past friends. Complete social reset. I did this because I had such a painful crush on R that I couldn't bear to think about her or anyone that reminded me of her.  I made a couple friends in college despite my lack of social skills, one of which was the next girl I'd have a terrible crush on. She was a young, brilliant, adorable INTJ, and probably the closest person I ever had to my soul. That relationship was friendzoned though. After college ended I deleted her from my life as well, same reasons as R. 

When I was finished with college I moved back home, got a job, moved out. I had no friends. After years of college I had no skills required to get friends, and no hobbies or places to meet friends. I was incredibly lonely. For 2 years I worked 60 hours a week and played videogames the rest of them. Still being told "you'll find someone", "the right girl will like you for who you are". I had tried multitudes of dating sites, it was miraculous if one of the "stuck up bitches" would so much as grace me with a reply. Despite that I still dated a couple girls over the course of those dark years, but nobody decent. I didn't, and still really don't have the social skills to meet people and make friends. 

I was really a good sweethearted kid, but years of loneliness and frustration brought my brain into a darker reality, towards the tipping point. I tried playing the nice guy. I tried playing the sweetheart. I tried playing the guy who just needs a hug. I tried all these things, translating them to dating site profiles, women didn't give a shit. If you follow my past post history, my blog, you can see me spiral down into the depths of negativity over time.

Us humans are sexual beings. You can't spend years without a single female on the planet showing any interest and not feel like absolute shit. Especially when you're young and horny. I thought I had it rough, this is from the TRP sidebar (the sidebar is basically the TRP "bible") Please login or register to see this link.  . This gentleman very well expresses what was my frustrations and problems with women/today's culture. The whole thing is absolutely essential to my story and experience, and I recommend reading it.

Quote

 

The funny thing is i practiced feminism to the letter, and by treating women as human beings and respecting them as prescribed. I loved women and cared for women. I did all those nice things not simply to get into their pants, but because i was a decent human being, a human male, and someone who *wanted* to get into  a loving relationship with a woman.

And by loving women the way feminism asked, i was nearly destroyed for it.

Misogyny. No child was ever born with it.

 

I finally started messaging with the girl mentioned in the link at the top of this post. Lonely, frustrated, and this smart, beautiful, dorky, godsend of a girl was chatting with me. Talking romance with me. I was desperate and hadn't experienced affection like that. She was a temptress and I just fell in. And when she pulled "the fade-out". That was it, the last failure that broke my back. I wasn't going to fail and hurt like that again. I was done trying to be the yuppy, the purist, the sweet guy with nothing to hide. No more mr. good boy. I went to pickup forums. I found my way to TRP. At first I was disgusted as a person with socially normal beliefs would be. I started reading the sidebar, and it was sick, and I was very angry, but it made sense, it was a revelation. The world and the way I knew it came crashing down and I rebuilt every system model and understanding in my mind. All my years of frustration and failure started to make sense. After several weeks of fury I reached acceptance, and I finally relaxed. The world made sense and it was a huge relief. Even better, I now knew what I had to do to get what I wanted in life, to get a woman to so much as talk to me, and I went to work doing it. I had a path and that made me confident. Got a hobby, started working out. Started approaching girls, worked on my social skills. Started wearing nice clothes, styling my hair. The world and the way it interacted with me changed. My father offered to set me up on dates with friends daughters, girls started talking to me, I became much much happier and escaped the negative spiral to suicide my life was headed down. Hell, just last night I was at a cocktail party and 3 girls I know from work basically told me they were staring at my ass. 

That all went down about a year and a half ago. I'm a much better man now. In shape, not jacked because I've honestly neglected lifting properly and can barely gain a pound worth a damn. I've dated over a dozen different girls over the past year. Some I've slept with, some I'm still booty calling over every other week. I've hooked up with one of my unmentioned exes and turned her into a fuckbuddy using Please login or register to see this link. , and it worked by the book. Don't bullshit me TRP doesn't work, I've tested it. Monogomy is dead to me, but it's much better than being dead myself. 

All in all TRP may not be correct, and maybe there were other ways to pull me out of my hell. TRP was the kick in the ass that worked though. For that I believe in it. 

 

 

Now, most people who come to this forum to comment on TRP say the same things. "Frustrated, angry incels". There's anger in TRP. When the world as you know it comes crashing down there's going to be anger. People come to TRP frustrated, when they start immersing in it they become angry. Some people there remain in angry mental masturbation forever, it's true. Others reform themselves to succeed in their newly understood world, and undergo much discipline and self improvement to do so. A TRPer in the final phase is a successful, happy, improved man who sleeps with beautiful women and accepts them for their socially unadmitted shortcomings. TRP's primary remedy for attracting women is self improvement in various forms. Many of these final-phasers contribute tips back to the community. Guides on lifting, self improvement, navigating corporate-landia, and of course maintaining female attraction. That's what TRP is to those who actually give it a chance, and read more than just the first, most offensive angry thing they can find. It's a brutally honest, kick-in-the-face, foul languaged no-frills guide to understanding women and succeeding in life. 

 

 

Edited by razgrim

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As a young teenager I was ridiculously successful with girls... at least assuming that the standard expressed by many guys here is any valid measure for comparison. There were lots of dates and lots of very positive and memorable experiences with multiple girls for several consecutive years. Oddly enough though, that success did not continue after I moved for college, and at first I didn't think anything of it. After a couple years my desire to repeat those former experiences eventually reached a breaking point, and I finally started experimenting (for the first time) with blind approaches  and messaging girls on dating sites; of course, the overwhelming reaction among the women I blindly reached out to was profound disinterest

My former success would also mean that I would have no problems at all talking to the women I worked or went to school with; I can't tell you the number of times when I'd sit next to a female class mate only to have the same story unfold time and time again; we'd get to talking and they'd compliment me, inquire about my relationship status, smile and make eye contact, casually touch me on the shoulder, laugh at my jokes, share personal information... I'd naively interpret this generic flirting behavior as interest and ask them out, and they'd accept and agree to go out with me 100% of the time. I would eventually learn that all hell would break lose at precisely whatever time we scheduled the date, which as an isolated occurrence could easily have been dismissed as non-consequential. Though time and time again this flaking behavior would repeatedly persist with multiple women, and oddly enough, it's something I never experienced as a teenager and didn't even know there was a word describing it until I looked it up

The night and day difference between before and after I moved made me think, what's changed? My physical features hadn't drastically changed, my intelligence/ personality/ humor hadn't changed significantly, and on the upside I was also working out and excelling in work and academia.  Yet seemingly overnight, I literally went from having different girls on more than one occasion showing up at my house uninvited to girls not wanting to give me their number to save my life. 

After going over all the variables again and again and enlisting online resources for help, in the end this paradoxical and spontaneous shift of success has only been adequately explained by red pill theory.  I had success with a girl, and this success was a fluke (it was very rare or unlikely to happen, our chemistries just happened to align perfectly). Other girls saw us together and witnessed her public offerings of affection, and this sparked an insatiable curiosity that was perhaps augmented by my partner's ideal anatomical proportions. I was spoken for, vouched for, seen as safe and as a result I was able to experience immense success with multiple girls. I witness additional evidence for this general principle today when women seem to be more likely to flirt with married men and find them more attractive (interesting note: men are mostly immune to this effect in the sense that it doesn't matter what type of guy a woman they are not attracted to is with; guys are still going to be disinterested in the woman they initially perceived  to be unattractive).

Anyway, this was a key revelation for me that wouldn't have been possible without the help of red pill philosophy, as not only did it adequately explain the profound mystery but it also implied that, given the fluke-like reason for the initial success, if I wanted to relive those experiences again then I'd have to alter anything and everything I thought I once knew about approaching women. My previous experience makes me very motivated to make the approach, and I will be very confident if anything worthwhile ever results from that approach, but obviously the approach itself still needs work and the feminists here who repeatedly offer advice such as "just be yourself" come across as maliciously attempting to force a lifelong involuntary celibacy sentence upon men (which is ironic considering that a common criticism  of feminism that feminists repeatedly deny, is that feminists hate men).

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I'm a hardcore, brainwashed, feminist "blue-piller" according to the red pills. I'm even a "nice guy".

I'm getting married in October, have sex constantly, and have an absolute perfect relationship with zero problems.

I'm doing everything "wrong" by red pill standards and yet have found complete success in this whole relationship thing. I shouldn't exist, according to them. And yet, I'm far from a unicorn.

On 3/17/2017 at 8:40 AM, Fishism said:

The information I exposed myself too often led me to other angry men like MGTOW or red pillers,  men who were blaming an entire gender for their own failures.  It was easy and lazy to find this community compelling.

This is very poignant. Thanks. I'm glad you're seeing the dangers in this crap for what they are.

From what I have observed, you're dead on: Red Pill is the easy, lazy, comfortable community for angry men to lick their wounds and hide behind.

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With all the purported 'improvements' for red pillars, how come they're not happy people? Hmm....

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The path they're on, they should keep going. If you're really about truth, well okay, then keep your eyes open. When people start talking like them, I say keep talking. The worst is when they get comfortable.

Looking at their forums, there's much to dislike, but every ten threads or so, a gleam of human frailty shines through and you can see it all within the big picture.

See, you really can't let yourself start seeing them as monsters. Not because they're not, but because you're one too.

When they say "the truth about x" it's really "the truth about my experience". These people aren't scientists, they want a friend and to be vulnerable with someone who understands them. It's like a modern exhibit of just how isolated men are.

A mistake is to blame women. Not that some women haven't wronged them, but it's only half the equation. Everyone has wronged everyone and we're paying for it.

I mean, fuck, the lengths these guys go just to feel intimacy and acceptance, all because it seemed impossible to just say "look, there's something I need to talk about, but I'm afraid you'll hate me if I try."

So, you have a monster in you and it has to be acknowledged before it can be tamed. If there's a red pill you need to take, I think it's the one that reveals your own monster before the monsters of others. That's the only one you've any hope of taming, and if everyone did that, much of this bitching about "women" and "men" would disappear.

Good luck, crazy people.

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Cool answers given, so I'll play. For me, Red Pill just rings truer than conventional dating advice. When I listen to healthy, functional people give their wholesome relationship advice, I chuckle in my head thinking about certain people and situations.

From the first, I'd always noticed that many of the sought-after women tended to end up involved with rougher kinds of guy, the names-changing story of women ending up in bad spots due to attractions that worked against their interests. Because: "love!" Always, of course. Gangsters' wives also stuck in my head as a riddle to be solved - the ones I knew were almost always sweet, semi-sane, and devoted.

I'm low-empathy and social enough to experiment on people, and did some of that in my teens. Acting like a horrible human worked fairly well for drawing kindness out, better than kindness itself; insults also worked better than compliments to get a date. I could pit some groups of friends against eachother, and barter different girls' affections to get to some target. Party tricks for ego and an odd hookup, but there was a counterintuitive social system that could be hacked. 

Long-term dating, when it happened, was a sabbatical. Depending on the couple, it's possible to have Blue-Pill in your relationships and not get eaten by pirañas. Softer skills also work, and it's been odd to see Game evolve to wrestle with things like massage, music, cuddling, and vulnerability.

Shorter-term dating, though, is very Red. You spend time with someone else's current, former, and future darlings - and most idealization doesn't survive inspection. Also, the more you date, it gets incredibly arbitrary what the market rewards. Toggling Beard, Hair Length, and Clothing Style can flip the attraction switch in either direction. Other varyingly inane triggers: obscure physical skills, having an accent, knowing a topic, wearing a color. Like a bird finding bright ribbons during mating season. 

Fun, in your spare time, to dig through the murk on some biomechanical and psychological lines of thought - the tend & befriend stress response, estrogen's impact on oxytocin vs testosterone's, hybristophilia, Coolidge effect, novelty, imprinting, brain structures and hormones related to social hierarchy, animal mating behaviors involving hierarchies and/or aggression.

Trade-offs. I've lost women to BP men. I've taken women from BP men. Objectively, I'm not a good partner - arrogant, selfish, prone to cheating. Objectively, I've never had a bad partner. Some women are immune. Many women don't fit the paradigm in action or intent. Some women really do need you to trust first and be real or nothing happens and you lose out.

Both sides, BP and RP, own a piece of reality. We won't know the full stats breakdown until FaceGoogle starts live-streaming everybody's daily lives. The older I get, it seems like RP owns the base impulses, BP owns the sublimation of them and the muting of them.

 

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I think I see where a lot red-pill men are coming from now. Thank you guys for sharing your stories. 

Does the red-pill philosophy only apply towards dating? Because I think I've red-pilled myself on several topics I slightly wish I wouldn't have.

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I'm seeing Red Pill used almost interchangeably with PUA/game here. Now, they do tend to go hand in hand. But PUA can be more practical and targetted, deliver tips for first social interactions, breaking the ice, as well as basic personal improvement and self esteem, without devolving into a whole worldview about female and male nature and how to keep people under control.

Basically what I'm asking is, are the guys posting here really talking about adhering to RP mindset as a whole, or about how PUA-type advice has helped or might help them get laid? Or do you not see a difference?

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Maiohmy said:

I think I see where a lot red-pill men are coming from now. Thank you guys for sharing your stories. 

Does the red-pill philosophy only apply towards dating? Because I think I've red-pilled myself on several topics I slightly wish I wouldn't have.

Ideally it's a lifestyle. A lot of recommended "attractive" things are major lifestyle changes like getting buff or owning your own business, that help you in the dating market but also make positive changes in other parts of your life.

People can and will take what they need from it though. If they needed nothing but some PUA "game" tricks to get where they wanted to be, that may be all they adopt.

Edited by razgrim

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Posted (edited)

On 3/17/2017 at 1:42 AM, BostonIan said:

There's another active thread psychoanalyzing Red-Pillers, and it might be a useful for Red-Pillers to share in that analysis. So, tell us the story.

What factors do you think led to your adoption of the Red Pill philosophy? What made the philosophy compelling, when did the transition happen?

First, let me just say that I am not at all a red-piller, and I am very much a feminist, but as a guy I can see exactly what causes many men to gravitate this way.   

A common theme that you see in many films, television shows and what not for some time now is the concept of the good guy who truly loves a woman, but that woman is constantly dating a shitty man that doesn't deserve her.  In the end the woman always wakes up and realizes there's an amazing man right under her nose, and they live happily ever after. This leads a lot of young men to believe that simply being a nice guy and trying to be agreeable with women is all the really need to do in order to attract one. What's worse is that many women happily foster this belief in men in part because they don't want to admit certain realities about themselves, and in part because they like having a great guy friend around that gives them all the benefits of having a caring back up boyfriend while still having being able to try and tame the wild bull they're actually dating.

Eventually through experience men begin to learn that this strategy isn't really working.  They start to wonder if they're being played, and if they're wasting their time.  They start looking for sympathy, but as soon as they start complaining about it they get attacked by women for insinuating that they don't like nice guys and only date assholes.  This is where things start to go haywire.  It's bad enough to feel as though you've been used or played, but to then be attacked and told its all your fault is the final straw. They become angry, and decide it is better to be the pigeon than the statue.  They go from one extreme to the other. Sick of being played by women to wanting to be the player, they go full blown misogyny.

Part of the problem here is a lack of quality roll models in these men's lives.  They know too many asshole men who have a lot of success with women by simply projecting dominance and being an asshole, and too many nice guys failing miserably, and they don't see enough men who are able to walk the fine line in between.  They see it as an either or thing.  A zero sum game where there is no middle ground.  Their past failures make this worse by making them feel justified in making up for those failures, by over compensating the other way. These men generally go through a mid life crisis and feel like they have to make up for lost time.  If they go too far off the deep end they can be lost forever. 

Now understand this is not a justification for these men's behavior and ideas. They are disgusting and pathetic, but there are things that society and particularly women can and should do a better job of to help avoid creating as few of these men as possible.  

There are a couple of things that helped me avoid falling into this trap.  The first of which was some what chance.  I'll try to make a long story short, but essentially I met the most amazing and most intelligent woman I have ever met, and instantly fell in love with her.  Unfortunately she rejected me, but unlike other women I've missed out on in the past she did two things. One she was sympathetic about it and let me down very well.  Secondly, instead of choosing some d-bag over me she choose my best friend.  Now at first this was really difficult, but ultimately it was life changing because obviously I believed that my best friend was a really great guy.  He was about as genuinely nice of a guy as you're ever going to meet.  In fact I'd probably have to admit he was a nicer guy than me.  Unfortunately I had really no choice, but to admit that the problem wasn't with her, it was with me.  I wasn't good enough for her. 

The sad reality is that most women if given the choice between a dominate, confident, asshole, and a weak, agreeable, nice guy are going to choose the asshole.  That doesn't mean that they don't value a genuinely good guy, it just means that they're not being given very good choices, and a lot of the reason for that is due to men themselves.

The second big thing that really helped me was a better understanding the motivations of women, and why so many of them make this unfortunate choice, and it isn't because women are secretly evil gold diggers.  The biggest reason is due to the reality that many if not most women in this country are very insecure.  This due in large part to the way in which society and most men generally treat them.  They live in a world where half the people living in it with them are bigger, faster, stronger, and treat them like trophies to be won or possessions to acquire.

If you're a decently attractive woman you've experienced at a very early age all kinds of attempts by men to sleep with you.  She has almost certainly met countless men who have been overwhelmingly nice to her without her doing much of anything to earn it.  Now imagine for yourself the typical woman that would show such affection for you without requiring you do do anything for her do deserve it? Is she attractive to you?  No, she's probably incredibly overweight, and desperate to meet a guy. Well your approach appears to an attractive woman the same way that ugly girls approach seems to you. 

She wants to have to earn your affection with something more than just having a nice ass and a pretty smile.  She wants to feel like she's worked for it.  From her perspective a decent man who truly sees her as an equal wont give in so easily.  Unfortunately for many women - particularly the more insecure types - an asshole can seem like he's the most challenging and therefore the biggest prize.  And unfortunately many assholes can and do use this to manipulate women, but that doesn't make women bad people or evil people, it makes them no different than you.  After all if you're a guy that feels like you've been played you've clearly been fawning over some woman who treated you like shit while ignoring others who would have probably been nicer to you.  

Blaming women for that or using it against them isn't productive and doesn't make you a smart man or a woke man.  It just makes you a bitter piece of shit.  If you ever really did care about the women you've missed out on the right reaction is give them a better option to choose from.  It's to improve upon yourself to give them better options not to learn a different manipulation tactic.  Eventually the best women learn to see through that tactic as well.  

If you focus on improving yourself rather than blaming women for your failures you'll find that the best, most amazing, most intelligent women are going to emerge in their mid to late twenties desperately looking for a guy like you.  You'll have your choice, and you wont have to manipulate anybody. Go to school, get a decent job, take care of yourself and your health, get out of your mom's basement, quit playing video games, learn how to dress yourself, learn how to cook, clean your apartment, stop filling your car's passenger seat with McDonald's rappers.

If you believe you're a better man then prove it. Stop blaming women, and trying giving them a better choice. Given how many shitty Red Pillers and Trump supporters there are in the world it really isn't that difficult. 

 

 

 

Edited by ischulte

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8 hours ago, Seablue said:

 

Basically what I'm asking is, are the guys posting here really talking about adhering to RP mindset as a whole, or about how PUA-type advice has helped or might help them get laid? Or do you not see a difference?

I believe that PUA comes second, after accepting the RP mindset first.  One needs to dehumanize a woman to treat her so superficially as a target market, conquest or a reward for clever manipulation.

For example, let's say it's a Red Pill premise that "all women are gold diggers".  That premise must be accepted before you adhere to the PUA idea of "show off money that you don't really have and exaggerate your career".  

PUA strategies are the result of Red Pill generalizations.

  

 

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2 minutes ago, Fishism said:

I believe that PUA comes second, after accepting the RP mindset first.  One needs to dehumanize a woman to treat her so superficially as a target market, conquest or a reward for clever manipulation.

For example, let's say it's a Red Pill premise that "all women are gold diggers".  That premise must be accepted before you adhere to the PUA idea of "show off money that you don't really have and exaggerate your career".  

PUA strategies are the result of Red Pill generalizations.

I suppose it could work like that. But I don't think it's typical. I think a lot of guys who are struggling with sex and dating look for tips to solve that problem specifically, which leads them to PUA-type advice. Then they might just use what little they need to be a bit more confident, a bit more attractive, approach girls, etc, get laid or get a girlfriend, and go away to lead normal lives. Or they might go far down the rabbit hole for a number of reason.

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4 minutes ago, Seablue said:

I suppose it could work like that. But I don't think it's typical. I think a lot of guys who are struggling with sex and dating look for tips to solve that problem specifically, which leads them to PUA-type advice. Then they might just use what little they need to be a bit more confident, a bit more attractive, approach girls, etc, get laid or get a girlfriend, and go away to lead normal lives. Or they might go far down the rabbit hole for a number of reason.

Of course, if they are asking "What's wrong with me? Why can't I find a woman to play with?" and they're objective and self-aware enough to accept the reasoning for their failure to be something they themselves are doing or not doing, then yes, basic logical PUA advice will be all they need.   But the source of that advice still comes from a sinister outlook that comes from those who don't look inward for responsibility.   

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2 minutes ago, Fishism said:

Of course, if they are asking "What's wrong with me? Why can't I find a woman to play with?" and they're objective and self-aware enough to accept the reasoning for their failure to be something they themselves are doing or not doing, then yes, basic logical PUA advice will be all they need.   But the source of that advice still comes from a sinister outlook that comes from those who don't look inward for responsibility.   

All too often, yes. I still think some PUAs are not sinister (and basically giving common sense advice + acting as a support group to a guy needing encouragement with his dating and personal life) but the vast majority seems problematic.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Fishism said:

I believe that PUA comes second, after accepting the RP mindset first.  One needs to dehumanize a woman to treat her so superficially as a target market, conquest or a reward for clever manipulation.

For example, let's say it's a Red Pill premise that "all women are gold diggers".  That premise must be accepted before you adhere to the PUA idea of "show off money that you don't really have and exaggerate your career".  

PUA strategies are the result of Red Pill generalizations.

  

 

You and a lot of other people here actually have it backwards. TRP came after PUA.

PUA was around before TRP. The big problem with PUA is it was shots in the dark - people knew some weird shit that worked, but they couldn't quite put together the "why's". PUA was formed sporadically by a bunch of sexually successful individuals tossing out their own tips and theories on their own websites, because of this setup these gentleman never really got together to refine their ideas into something more complete. 

TRP unified all those tips and came up with a set of theories to explain why they work. In an odd sense it's actually quite scientific (and I know many here will puke on that sentence ) - seeing evidence of what works and what doesn't, and coming up with a plausible explanation. Science isn't supposed to happen in the opposite direction. They didn't start with misogyny and come up with some pick up tricks based on it, and somehow all those pickup tricks worked. 

Read my above post again ;) misogyny isn't something any of us were born with. It was our conclusion after experiencing both failure and success.  

Edited by razgrim

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3 minutes ago, razgrim said:

TRP unified all those tips and came up with a set of theories to explain why they work. 

And as often happens when people attempt this type of thing they mistook correlation for causation. 

 
 
...... added to this post 9 minutes later:
 
47 minutes ago, Seablue said:

All too often, yes. I still think some PUAs are not sinister (and basically giving common sense advice + acting as a support group to a guy needing encouragement with his dating and personal life) but the vast majority seems problematic.

If you are referring to it as an art form then you are in fact sinister.  Learning from experience is very different from doing it just to see what you are capable of.  It's the difference between someone learning how to paint their living room without getting paint all over the furniture vs trying to paint a self portrait.  One you do for fun, the other is done out of necessity.

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20 minutes ago, ischulte said:

If you are referring to it as an art form then you are in fact sinister.  Learning from experience is very different from doing it just to see what you are capable of.  It's the difference between someone learning how to paint their living room without getting paint all over the furniture vs trying to paint a self portrait.  One you do for fun, the other is done out of necessity.

I'm using PUA as a general term - many of those guys have other names they prefer to be called but I'm not going to memorize their preferences. The comparison with an artform seems pretentious to me, but not inherently sinister.

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