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Ricardo Diaz

Diesel in Gasoline car...

Very wary now, I might have fucked up. Tanked up my car (an old petrol hatchback) with what may have been diesel.

40 fucking liters. It was nearly empty so it's close to 100% diesel now.

It died on me on the way back home (about 4km) but started back up when I switched off the lights and AC and gave gas while cranking the engine. It does that sometimes, but very rarely, due to a bad battery. I am really hoping that this is a bad battery.

Some other clues.

I'm fucking colorblind but the nozzle was right next to the Diesel nozzle and looked painted the same (dark greenish?), whereas the Gasoline nozzles were painted yellow and clearly said Gasoline. This fucking thing said Super or Supreme or something but it just may have been a better Diesel, right? Why paint it as such and put it near that or else?

Of course the attendant was retarded and didn't speak a word of English.

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I checked my pockets and I've gotten $65 change back for a 100 for 40 liters of whatever they put in the car. That's about $34 and it's fair enough that the guy stole a dollar for himself. If it were Diesel it should have been closer to $30 and I don't think he'd pocket an extra $5 like that.

3350KHR per liter works out to about $34 for 40 liters and that's the change that I got.

So this is my plan for now: Drive around for a couple of hours tomorrow (assuming it starts) and hopefully burn up half the tank (assuming it still runs) and then top it off with premium gasoline. Repeat a couple of times and just try to forget about this.

Or is there any way I can check for sure if it's diesel or petrol? I know one is thinner and smells different blah blah, but is there any sure-fire way to tell, like mixing something else into it to check the color for example? And if there is, would I even want to know... I am not going to try to burn it.

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Aren't the diesel and gas nozzles different sizes?  Here, the diesel nozzle will not fit into a gas tank.

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10 minutes ago, Warrior said:

Aren't the diesel and gas nozzles different sizes?  Here, the diesel nozzle will not fit into a gas tank.

I hope so man. I just hope the fucking thing runs until I leave this country in 3-4 months.

 
 
...... added to this post 0 minutes later:
 

It makes me sick how stupid people can be. If you're a gas station attendant how could you possibly fuck this up.

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If it was diesel, your car likely would have stopped when the gasoline in the system got burned off and it's not going to start again. A gasoline engine can't run on diesel.

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is it the middle of winter where you are?

 

try heating up your car somehow,

if its really cold the diesel will turn into jelly and it wont burn.

id assume your car doesn't have glow plugs.

itl also evaporate slower and is heavier so you may have trouble starting.

 

If you get the gas engine too hot it will "diesel" (run via compression ignition) and you won't be able to shut it down.

 

just go back, ask the guy what petrol comes out of that nozzle and point at it.

 

you sound like you live in a dodgey place as well.

maybe its homebrew diesel tha's why its so cheap?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil_fuel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_oil_recycling

 

Quote

Fuel laundering

Organised crime gangs may "launder" low-price dyed fuel, removing the dye and selling it illegally to unsuspecting motorists at the higher price of undyed fuel. Paramilitary groups connected to political unrest in Northern Ireland have established laundering plants on both sides of the Irish border. In 2004, Northern Irish police discovered an illegal facility capable of removing the dye from 12 million litres of fuel per year.[5] In 2009, customs officials shut down a plant capable of removing the dye from 6.5 million litres of fuel per year.[6] In 2011, a plant capable of processing 30 million litres was discovered.[7]

 

 

 

http://www.autofuelfix.com/blog/diesel-in-a-petrol-car-guide-and-video

Quote

If the car is started the diesel will clog up the spark plugs and fuel system, causing the vehicle to misfire, smoke and possibly stop running. After the contaminated fuel has been flushed from the system, the bike or car should start fairly quickly. You will initially see smoke whilst the diesel residue is burnt off, after this the vehicle should run as before the incident.

Auto Fuel Fix Recommends: If you have put any quantity of diesel in your petrol tank, use a specific additive to remove any diesel residue left in your fuel system.

 

clean your spark plugs after

 

 

Edited by king con

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 diesel in a gas car just makes it smoke bad and shut off.  Gas in a diesel is catastrophic.  If it's starting at all and not fogging out all of southeast asia its probably not diesel.  You're not going to burn through half a tank of diesel, hahaha.  

 

Probably got sold shit gas with garbage in it that plugged your fuel filter.  Or water.  Water would be problematic.

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I would not drive the car if i was you. Driving a engine on the wrong fuel causes catastrophic damage. Putting diesel in a petrol car can destroy your pistons inside your cylinders, this is due to the fact that the diesel is a lot more dense than petrol. Petrol is like an acid where as diesel is like a oil,  this thicker fuel does not compress properly in a petrol engine. Because the fuel can not be ignited with the spark plugs in a petrol engine the diesel fuel will build up in the cylinder and as the vehicle runs it will be trying to compress this fuel in the cylinder this can cause your pistons to bend or snap. Not only this but because you have a mixture and are able to run the vehicle it makes it even more of a problem, as some of the petrol is still present it will be making the engine run but out of time as the mixture of fuel will adjust the petrol/diesel mixtures flash point, this can cause the engine to run "out of timing" creating internal damage to the cylinder walls. If there is too much of a diesel mixture this will coat the spark plugs and cause the engine to stall as the spark plugs will no longer be able to cause a spark. 

This problem however happens around once every 4 minutes. The best advise i could find is to get the fuel drained and the lines flushed. 

please see bellow. 

http://wrongfuel-recovery.co.uk/?q=content/petrol-diesel-car

http://wrongfuel-recovery.co.uk

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I also wouldn't drive it and also, insurance can cover this, depending on your plan. So check that.

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I can't imagine a gas station attendant doing such a thing :facepalm:

You'd think he'd have learned to distinguish gas from diesel in his first few minutes of training.

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Posted (edited)

Anyone know if using fuel with dye removed can cause what op is experiencing? 

I've only ever heard about ithe dye removal process and never heard what it can cause to the engine.

The fuel is usually red afaik, according to the wiki link I posted different countries use different dyes and some places dye diesel.

Edited by king con

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Siphon it out into cans. Put the right fuel in  Change your fuel filter. 

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On 09/01/2017 at 1:53 AM, James Green said:

I would not drive the car if i was you. Driving a engine on the wrong fuel causes catastrophic damage. Putting diesel in a petrol car can destroy your pistons inside your cylinders, this is due to the fact that the diesel is a lot more dense than petrol. Petrol is like an acid where as diesel is like a oil,  this thicker fuel does not compress properly in a petrol engine. Because the fuel can not be ignited with the spark plugs in a petrol engine the diesel fuel will build up in the cylinder and as the vehicle runs it will be trying to compress this fuel in the cylinder this can cause your pistons to bend or snap. Not only this but because you have a mixture and are able to run the vehicle it makes it even more of a problem, as some of the petrol is still present it will be making the engine run but out of time as the mixture of fuel will adjust the petrol/diesel mixtures flash point, this can cause the engine to run "out of timing" creating internal damage to the cylinder walls. If there is too much of a diesel mixture this will coat the spark plugs and cause the engine to stall as the spark plugs will no longer be able to cause a spark. 

This problem however happens around once every 4 minutes. The best advise i could find is to get the fuel drained and the lines flushed. 

please see bellow. 

http://wrongfuel-recovery.co.uk/?q=content/petrol-diesel-car

http://wrongfuel-recovery.co.uk

The above is utter, utter, nonsense.  While putting gasoline in a diesel is catastrophic (because of gasoline's much more explosive nature and the much higher compression ratio used by diesel engines), putting diesel in a gasoline engine will just make the engine either stall or smoke worse than a 40-year-old Trabant.

And there's just no possible way that you could build up so much diesel in a cylinder that it would cause hydro lock.  That's got to be one of the most ridiculous and absurd things I've ever heard, and I've been working on cars long enough to have heard some absolute whoppers.

On 27/11/2016 at 11:21 PM, Drawkcab said:

 diesel in a gas car just makes it smoke bad and shut off.  Gas in a diesel is catastrophic.  If it's starting at all and not fogging out all of southeast asia its probably not diesel.  You're not going to burn through half a tank of diesel, hahaha.  

 

Probably got sold shit gas with garbage in it that plugged your fuel filter.  Or water.  Water would be problematic.

This is correct.  Listen to Drawkcab.

 
 
...... added to this post 10 minutes later:
 
On 09/01/2017 at 1:10 PM, king con said:

Anyone know if using fuel with dye removed can cause what op is experiencing? 

Merely removing any dye which might be present would cause no problems whatsoever.  Fuel dyes are inert and their presence or absence should make no difference at all. 

Now, if, in the process of dye removal, the fuel were otherwise adulterated in some manner, that could cause problems. However those problems would be due to the adulteration and not to the lack of dye.

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3 hours ago, AaronSheffield said:

...... added to this post 10 minutes later:

 

Merely removing any dye which might be present would cause no problems whatsoever.  Fuel dyes are inert and their presence or absence should make no difference at all. 

Now, if, in the process of dye removal, the fuel were otherwise adulterated in some manner, that could cause problems. However those problems would be due to the adulteration and not to the lack of dye.

i forgot to post the link look at this link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes

this is what i was referring to, i wasn't saying the dye is going to damage his engine completely not what i was saying.

Quote

Fuel dyes are dyes added to fuels, as in some countries it is required by law to dye a low-tax fuel to deter its use in applications intended for higher-taxed ones. Untaxed fuels are referred to as "dyed", while taxed ones are called "clear" or "white".

Organised crime gangs may "launder" low-price dyed fuel, removing the dye and selling it illegally to unsuspecting motorists at the higher price of undyed fuel. Paramilitary groups connected to political unrest in Northern Ireland have established laundering plants on both sides of the Irish border. In 2004, Northern Irish police discovered an illegal facility capable of removing the dye from 12 million litres of fuel per year.[5] In 2009, customs officials shut down a plant capable of removing the dye from 6.5 million litres of fuel per year.[6] In 2011, a plant capable of processing 30 million litres was discovered

 

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If your car just died there are also other possibilities, such as a " soft battery," or a bad voltage regulator. Jump anybody else or get a jump start recently?

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7 hours ago, king con said:

i wasn't saying the dye is going to damage his engine

I know.

But the fact that the dye is inert means that it provides neither benefit nor detriment.  Removing an inert chemical (the dye) from the fuel cannot cause an issue because the dye, by virtue of being inert, provides no benefit.  Because its presence provides no benefit, its removal causes no detriment.

So what I was saying was exactly what I lead off with, "[m]erely removing any dye which might be present would cause no problems whatsoever."  Nothing in my post in any way, shape, or form suggested that I thought you were implying that the dye caused damage.

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On 2016-11-24 at 8:01 AM, Ricardo Diaz said:

Very wary now, I might have fucked up. Tanked up my car (an old petrol hatchback) with what may have been diesel.

40 fucking liters. It was nearly empty so it's close to 100% diesel now.

It died on me on the way back home (about 4km) but started back up when I switched off the lights and AC and gave gas while cranking the engine. It does that sometimes, but very rarely, due to a bad battery. I am really hoping that this is a bad battery.

Some other clues.

I'm fucking colorblind but the nozzle was right next to the Diesel nozzle and looked painted the same (dark greenish?), whereas the Gasoline nozzles were painted yellow and clearly said Gasoline. This fucking thing said Super or Supreme or something but it just may have been a better Diesel, right? Why paint it as such and put it near that or else?

Of course the attendant was retarded and didn't speak a word of English.

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that I checked my pockets and I've gotten $65 change back for a 100 for 40 liters of whatever they put in the car. That's about $34 and it's fair enough that the guy stole a dollar for himself. If it were Diesel it should have been closer to $30 and I don't think he'd pocket an extra $5 like that.

3350KHR per liter works out to about $34 for 40 liters and that's the change that I got.

So this is my plan for now: Drive around for a couple of hours tomorrow (assuming it starts) and hopefully burn up half the tank (assuming it still runs) and then top it off with premium gasoline. Repeat a couple of times and just try to forget about this.

Or is there any way I can check for sure if it's diesel or petrol? I know one is thinner and smells different blah blah, but is there any sure-fire way to tell, like mixing something else into it to check the color for example? And if there is, would I even want to know... I am not going to try to burn it.

Diesel doesn't burn in a gas motor, it needs the heat of high compression to ignite (spark plugs wont do it). Diesel engines have much higher compression ratios and dont have spark plugs. the compression in a regular gas motor is not high enough to ignite diesel fuel.

if it is running and you filled it that full you did not fill up with diesel.

Edited by myname

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30 minutes ago, AaronSheffield said:

I know.

But the fact that the dye is inert means that it provides neither benefit nor detriment.  Removing an inert chemical (the dye) from the fuel cannot cause an issue because the dye, by virtue of being inert, provides no benefit.  Because its presence provides no benefit, its removal causes no detriment.

So what I was saying was exactly what I lead off with, "[m]erely removing any dye which might be present would cause no problems whatsoever."  Nothing in my post in any way, shape, or form suggested that I thought you were implying that the dye caused damage.

So your saying removing inert dye that is used to distinguish different types of fuel out of low cost fuel and selling it as high cost clear fuel has no negative effects on car engines that might be causing the problems op is experiencing?

There's a table showing the different colours and types of fuel in the link I posted.

The only purpose of the dye is to indicate price?

Don't some dyes react and change color when certain other fuels are added? Wouldn't removal of the dye mean they can mix regular fuel with homebrew or cheap fuel?

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53 minutes ago, king con said:

So your saying removing inert dye that is used to distinguish different types of fuel out of low cost fuel and selling it as high cost clear fuel has no negative effects on car engines that might be causing the problems op is experiencing?

That is exactly what I am saying. 

The dye is added to indicate tax status, not the quality of fuel.  For example, in the US, off-road diesel is dyed red so that state inspectors can easily test the fuel in road-going diesel trucks to ensure that trucks used on public roads aren't using un-taxed off-road diesel.  If they drain a few drops from the tank or bleed a few drops from the fuel lines and the drops are red, the truck is illegally using un-taxed, off-road, diesel.  The dye has nothing to do with the quality of the fuel.
 

53 minutes ago, king con said:

The only purpose of the dye is to indicate price?

In some cases, as indicated in your link, dye color can also be used to indicate fuel grades (e.g. 91 octane gasoline vs. 95 octane) instead of tax status (I don't believe that dye actually directly indicates "price" anywhere in the world, only either grade or tax status).  However, even here the dye is inert.  Remove the red dye from 91 octane fuel in Thailand and you still have perfectly fine 91 octane gasoline - it doesn't suddenly degrade to 89 octane gasoline because the dye has been removed.  Even here, however, it is important to remember that fuel grade is not the same as fuel quality.  91 octane fuel is not lower quality than 95 octane fuel; it simply has slightly different autoignition properties.
 

53 minutes ago, king con said:

Wouldn't removal of the dye mean they can mix regular fuel with homebrew or cheap fuel?

Yes, but that issue would then be from adulterating the fuel by mixing it with inferior fuels, not from removing the dye.  Which is what I said in my initial post:  "...if, in the process of dye removal, the fuel were otherwise adulterated in some manner, that could cause problems. However those problems would be due to the adulteration and not to the lack of dye."

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1 hour ago, AaronSheffield said:

That is exactly what I am saying. 

The dye is added to indicate tax status, not the quality of fuel.  For example, in the US, off-road diesel is dyed red so that state inspectors can easily test the fuel in road-going diesel trucks to ensure that trucks used on public roads aren't using un-taxed off-road diesel.  If they drain a few drops from the tank or bleed a few drops from the fuel lines and the drops are red, the truck is illegally using un-taxed, off-road, diesel.  The dye has nothing to do with the quality of the fuel.
 

In some cases, as indicated in your link, dye color can also be used to indicate fuel grades (e.g. 91 octane gasoline vs. 95 octane) instead of tax status (I don't believe that dye actually directly indicates "price" anywhere in the world, only either grade or tax status).  However, even here the dye is inert.  Remove the red dye from 91 octane fuel in Thailand and you still have perfectly fine 91 octane gasoline - it doesn't suddenly degrade to 89 octane gasoline because the dye has been removed.  Even here, however, it is important to remember that fuel grade is not the same as fuel quality.  91 octane fuel is not lower quality than 95 octane fuel; it simply has slightly different autoignition properties.
 

Yes, but that issue would then be from adulterating the fuel by mixing it with inferior fuels, not from removing the dye.  Which is what I said in my initial post:  "...if, in the process of dye removal, the fuel were otherwise adulterated in some manner, that could cause problems. However those problems would be due to the adulteration and not to the lack of dye."

so then why do off-road vehicles use different fuels to on-road vehicles?

 

or are they the same fuel?

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19 hours ago, king con said:

so then why do off-road vehicles use different fuels to on-road vehicles?

 

or are they the same fuel?

It's the same fuel (for the most part; in some cases off-road diesel is higher in sulfur because off-road machinery generally does not have modern emissions control devices that necessitate low sulfur diesel), just dyed to indicate that it is not subject to road taxes.  The dye is just there to make it easy for the tax man to make sure people who are operating vehicles on the public roads have paid their road taxes (which are part of the cost of on-road fuel, but are not part of the cost of off-road fuel).

Even in the case of high sulfur diesel, there is no immediate damage nor running problems if you use it in an engine designed for low sulfur diesel.  What happens is that, over tens of thousands of miles emissions control sensors will get fouled by sulfur deposits.  So while using high sulfur diesel in a low sulfur engine for years can cause problems, a single tank would not be enough to make any measurable difference.

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