Welcome to INTJ Forum

This is a community where INTJs can meet others with similar personalities and discuss a wide variety of both serious and casual topics. If you aren't an INTJ, you're welcome to join anyway if you would like to learn more about this personality type or participate in our discussions. Registration is free and will allow you to post messages, see hidden subforums, customize your account and use other features only available to our members.

AOA

How to talk to a friend who has gained a lot of weight?

163 posts in this topic

This reminded me once when a bunch of friends got together, this Indian guy told one of our friends "hey, you gained a lot of weight".... wow... so so so rude.... and then almost 3 days of discussion why it was not OK even if in his Indian culture/background/habits telling someone they are fat is OK... they now live in a culture where that is plain rude and can be humiliating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

This reminds me of the film Avanti! when Hayley Mills has a lovely romantic dinner with Jack Lemmon. The next day, she is in a really cheery moods, and goes cycling all around town, saying hello to everyone. She gets back and says that she ate loads of food, BUT LOST 3 POUNDS! She says "My therapist says that I'm unhappy because I'm fat. I'm not unhappy because I'm fat. I'm fat because I'm unhappy."

Words to ponder.

Or perhaps its just vanity like 98 percent of people. She thinks she looks bad because shes fat so she feels bad. Lot of people feel bad because of this because there is pressure put on people who are fat. Its almost invisible pressure. Its the sort of stuff that says "Your fat so you dont look ideal. Look at that girls. Shes nicer. She can compete with other girls, but not me because I am fat, and if I cant compete with other girls I wont get fucked by prince charming." It all comes down to libido with most people. But its possible if she invents a fake narrative about some obscure mental problem she can shift her guilt of being fat to something that shes not guilty of.

 
 
...... added to this post 7 minutes later:
 

But to add - what I think works best for people who are fat is talking mostly about fat loss in more couvert manner. In stead of talking about the fat they are in possession of its possible to talk about dieting and eating habits and workout routines. I am fat so is my brother and we talk about this stuff constantly. Its a more proactive way of aknowliding that you are fat, but kind of going for it anyway.

Pretty much most people who get told your fat usually have a problem with facts. They either are smart and know how to lose weight effectively or they have to learn it somewhere. Nowdays there are lots of websites that provide the necessary information too, so its easy to give her some hints on how to lose fat faster. You can go by example and tell her how you lose fat by eating vegetables. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds6tUxatnTs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Or perhaps its just vanity like 98 percent of people. She thinks she looks bad because shes fat so she feels bad. Lot of people feel bad because of this because there is pressure put on people who are fat. Its almost invisible pressure. Its the sort of stuff that says "Your fat so you dont look ideal. Look at that girls. Shes nicer. She can compete with other girls, but not me because I am fat, and if I cant compete with other girls I wont get fucked by prince charming." It all comes down to libido with most people. But its possible if she invents a fake narrative about some obscure mental problem she can shift her guilt of being fat to something that shes not guilty of.

The point of that scene was that when she stopped worrying and just enjoyed life, she ate what she wanted and did what she felt like. As a result, she naturally went buzzing around saying hi to people. The pounds just fell off naturally, because she was engaging in regular activity.

Many men & women who lead an active life but don't go to the gym are very slim, for the same reason. A large part of daily exercise isn't at the gym. The steps that you take every minute forms a significant part of exercise, maybe even the majority.

I've got a friend who is obese. I learned his psyche, as I like to understand people. I was quite shocked to realise that he uses his size as a means of intimidating others, because he was bullied at school and fears other people taking advantage of him. He's only gained the motivation to lose weight, since he's significantly developed his social skills and learning how to get fair treatment from others without intimidating them with his size.

So I suspect that there's a large aspect of being fat that acts as a defence mechanism.

That might account for why it's so hard for many people to lose weight. If someone's subconscious encouraged them to gain weight as a means of solving some social problems, then losing the weight will just bring the problems back, and so the subconscious will not let that happen, as that's why they gained the weight in the first place. Only once the reasons that the person became fat have been resolved, by developing other mechanisms that achieve the same goals, will there be no more need for the weight. Then losing the weight becomes much easier, because you are no longer fighting yourself.

That's not necessarily true for every one, or is the total reason. But it's likely to be a significant block for many people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

The point of that scene was that when she stopped worrying and just enjoyed life, she ate what she wanted and did what she felt like. As a result, she naturally went buzzing around saying hi to people. The pounds just fell off naturally, because she was engaging in regular activity.

Many men & women who lead an active life but don't go to the gym are very slim, for the same reason. A large part of daily exercise isn't at the gym. The steps that you take every minute forms a significant part of exercise, maybe even the majority.

I've got a friend who is obese. I learned his psyche, as I like to understand people. I was quite shocked to realise that he uses his size as a means of intimidating others, because he was bullied at school and fears other people taking advantage of him. He's only gained the motivation to lose weight, since he's significantly developed his social skills and learning how to get fair treatment from others without intimidating them with his size.

So I suspect that there's a large aspect of being fat that acts as a defence mechanism.

That might account for why it's so hard for many people to lose weight. If someone's subconscious encouraged them to gain weight as a means of solving some social problems, then losing the weight will just bring the problems back, and so the subconscious will not let that happen, as that's why they gained the weight in the first place. Only once the reasons that the person became fat have been resolved, by developing other mechanisms that achieve the same goals, will there be no more need for the weight. Then losing the weight becomes much easier, because you are no longer fighting yourself.

That's not necessarily true for every one, or is the total reason. But it's likely to be a significant block for many people.

I do agree that people may get fat for many reasons. Its not always a simple as bad eating, habits or lack of exercise. But one can consider the other side of the coin. What if her problem social or otherwise can be solved by losing weight. For example she might get more self confidence and further get a more positive change in life so she will get more happy with her self. You see most people get more positive vibes once they overcome some obstacle. Its also possible that she might be getting fat simply because she thinks shes ugly or something. But since she gets more fat she will think shes more ugly. So eventually she will get even more fat and even more uglier. Well when she loses weight she might reconsider her situation and perhaps have a better up keep once she realizes its not too hard to keep in shape. Its not just losing weight you see. Getting into shape gets people a lot better physique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

If someone's subconscious encouraged them to gain weight as a means of solving some social problems, then losing the weight will just bring the problems back, and so the subconscious will not let that happen, as that's why they gained the weight in the first place. Only once the reasons that the person became fat have been resolved, by developing other mechanisms that achieve the same goals, will there be no more need for the weight.

This can definitely be true.  I have issues with establishing boundaries, for instance, because of my mother.  When I'm thinner and, thus, more attractive, I get easily overwhelmed with "allowing" (aka "not stopping") people to cross boundaries ... which, in turn, makes me incredibly stressed.  I don't have this problem when I'm overweight because I'm less attractive to men.  Being overweight also influences my mood and social level ... the better I feel about myself, the more I interact with people, and the more I find myself in those stressful situations.  There's a certain level of peace with being overweight ... but then I have to deal with the negative consequences of excess weight.  Feeling physically uncomfortable, sluggish, tired, in pain, out of shape, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cacao said:

What if her problem social or otherwise can be solved by losing weight. For example she might get more self confidence and further get a more positive change in life so she will get more happy with her self. You see most people get more positive vibes once they overcome some obstacle.

Any task can go wrong for multiple reasons. These are all potential obstacles. So every time someone does even a really simple thing, they're already overcoming numerous obstacles. If overcoming obstacles would give them the positive vibes to succeed, they'd already be getting those positive vibes, and succeeding already, and the weight would already be coming off.

Eleanor Roosevelt said that confidence is just the accumulated knowledge of lots of successes. But as I said, every task has numerous obstacles. When someone succeeds at many things, it means they succeeded. But more than this, it means that they have learned how to overcome the obstacles in all of those tasks.

Are they confident that they can succeed at those things because they did, or because they know the majority of potential problems and how to overcome them?

Is a computer programmer confident at his job because he has a history of success, or because he's learned how to program?

I posit that it is the computer programmer's knowledge that gives him confidence. The fact that he has a long line of successes behind him, just proves to him that he knows what he needs already to do the job, and that he is not lacking something else that he needs.

So it's not the confidence that makes people succeed. It's their skill set.

If they are very likely to learn what they need to know in a very short time, simply by having a go, then certainly, just giving things a go will work. But then, if it was that easy, they would probably succeed even if they were overweight, and then they'd get the positive vibes and the confidence anyway.

34 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Its also possible that she might be getting fat simply because she thinks shes ugly or something. But since she gets more fat she will think shes more ugly. So eventually she will get even more fat and even more uglier. Well when she loses weight she might reconsider her situation and perhaps have a better up keep once she realizes its not too hard to keep in shape. Its not just losing weight you see. Getting into shape gets people a lot better physique.

If getting into shape gets people a lot better physique, then that implies that she's much more attractive when she's thin and much more ugly when she's fat. So then thinking that she's ugly when she's getting fat is reasonable. But then she would know that getting into shape would solve her problem.

You're talking about when she thinks that she's ugly WHILE she is getting fat, i.e. BEFORE she is ugly by conventional standards, i.e. while she is still slim. But then she thinks she's ugly, even though she isn't. So she has a much more negative perception of her body's attractiveness than in reality. That means that she's unrealistic about people's expectations of her, and thus, of women in general. She thinks that no men would ever want to be in a relationship with anyone who wasn't a size zero. Well, that's going to hold her back, even if she gets into shape, because even women with really great physiques are not usually size zero. But she would know what men really want from a woman, if she talked to them in ways that didn't make men defensive and made men feel comfortable enough to be honest with her. So she's got serious communication problems in getting men to feel comfortable enough to be honest about their vulnerabilities. Even if she got into shape, she'd find it incredibly hard to get into a relationship with a guy, because she makes men uncomfortable, and they are hardly likely to tell her "I love you" if they never feel comfortable enough to open up. So even if she got in shape, she'd get lots of dates and lots of flings, but nothing that would convert into a relationship.

So what she really needs is to learn how to talk to men in ways that make them feel comfortable to talk honestly and openly with her. Then she'll find out that many men prefer a size 8, and many men even prefer fat women. Then she'll probably date the guys who like fat women. She'll realise that she's good in a relationship.

If she wants a man who prefers a size 8, she'll know that she's not ugly in his eyes at all, just a bit overweight. She'll lose the weight easily, because she knows that is the only thing holding her back, just like lots of women who go to the gym or go running, so that they are attractive.

If she's happier with the guys who like fat women, she'll stick with them, and know that she's attractive to them.

So her problems with thinking she is ugly will be solved.

If she stays fat, it will be because she wants to, by making a rational choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesus Christ, have people never heard of leptin resistance?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does that really work? Losing weight and becoming happier? I hear many people yoyo back. I can say from my own experiences that appearance or level of perceived attractiveness has never worked to make me feel a happier person inside. It simply is shifting focus as a distraction from the unresolved issues inside. Maybe people feel good about the level of control they exercise on themselves? But if you have to depend on that to feel happy, you'll be devestated when you slip, cheat and "lose" control again. Doesn't work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MissJ said:

Does that really work? Losing weight and becoming happier? I hear many people yoyo back. I can say from my own experiences that appearance or level of perceived attractiveness has never worked to make me feel a happier person inside. It simply is shifting focus as a distraction from the unresolved issues inside. 

This is actually very true. As a non-American, I find American's way to focus on the fat person's looks rather than their health to be a bit counterproductive. I mean, even @AOA, despite I fully relating to the motivation of talking it out, seem to be motivated to 'slim' the friend out rather than assuring that she is fine. I think weight should be discussed in the context of health and only health; and self-esteem should be discussed in how one perceive others' intention and their selves. I fully support the OP to discuss to the friend (because the friend is obviously having self esteem issue), but first the OP needs to sort out what to prioritize in that motivation; her looks, her health, or is it her esteem?

I mean, if you are saying that she should change her eating habit only to be able to wear bikinis, you are really undermining her self-worth. And if you are expecting she would back down from wearing bikinis because of her confidence, that means you have an ounce of belief that people should base their self worth on looks. When you want to support an overweight person, you have to clear out these issues first to not give the wrong idea.

I think the only right way to discuss this is by asking if she does have problems with her esteem. If she does; then ask her about it. She would talk about weight if it is a matter of weight. Show her that you won't value your friendship based on weight alone; but you are worried because she seemed down lately. Still, I don't support fat acceptance; it is bad only because it supports unhealthy lifestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

Any task can go wrong for multiple reasons. These are all potential obstacles. So every time someone does even a really simple thing, they're already overcoming numerous obstacles. If overcoming obstacles would give them the positive vibes to succeed, they'd already be getting those positive vibes, and succeeding already, and the weight would already be coming off.

Losing weight is a problem not because people  lack the motivation though. Its mostly that they have to watch their instincts. Most people can overdrive their instincts, but only if they make effort. Some fraction of people arent able to do it almost at all and are thus always under command of instincts. Each time that instinct of hunger kicks in one has to have the will to stop eating whatever they want. Most people clearly have a problem wiht this so thats why weight loss is a problem. People who can overdrive their own instinct to eat when hungry are usually not only fit, but also healthy, because they are in command not their instinct. So when their mind says eat vegetables they eat vegetables. When the mind says eat less sweets. They eat less sweets and so on.

Why people gain weight. Eating is associated with pleasure so when we eat our pleasure centers are active. Now most people have a insignificant life with little to no pleasure. Even if there is some pleasure its usually too rare to satisfy their pleasure centers. What it means is that people are actively seeking pleasure. For some pleasure is sex, dancing, taking drugs, or meeting friends or doing fun activieties where they use their creativity or sports. Either way we need some source of pleasure during the day to feel like the day has some meaning to us. Since pleasure seekers live for pleasure the instinct of pleasure is their primary source of satisfaction and thus they are constantly seeking out activities that are pleasurable. This is close to say smoking cigarettes. We smoke just for the buzz they give us. People often become addictied to cigs, but what they really are addictied to is the pleasure of the buzz and since during the day their pleasure centers are usually stale they activate pleasure centers by a short burst of cigarette smoke inhaled into the lungs.

So if we want a psychological explanation why she is probably overeating is simply the fact she is a pleasure seeker and wants a buzz of pleasure in her brain. Of course one can assume that this shortage of pleasure leads people to overeat so there must be something wrong in their life since their life is not pleasureable enough. The fact however is that success too gives people pleasure. It too can be addictive hence why games can be addictive or why a casino has so many people who will play until they are broke. Thus a small dose of change or a perception of easy win can keep people going and wasting money until they are broke. Either way her weight problem maybe contributing to feeling lack of pleasure. She may feel unattractive and thus a women in her age range who feels unattractive will have lots of bad feelings which will cancel out her pleasure. If you feel constantly unattractive you will have lots of reasons to feel down and unhappy. Thus eating will become paradoxally a pleasure to fill in for the lack of pleasure. 

Now the question is if that really is indeed the case which I dont know, but if it is indeed such a case then losing weight is surely the shortest way to solve the issue. Without psychotherpay, without drugs, or without some special psychological support and without creating a shitstorm of problems. And I think most people who lose weight do feel more attractive and more confidnet for variety of reasons. I rarely hear people say they lost weight and they feel bad, unattractive and unhappy. Unless they are sumo wrestlers or supersize models.

17 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

Eleanor Roosevelt said that confidence is just the accumulated knowledge of lots of successes. But as I said, every task has numerous obstacles. When someone succeeds at many things, it means they succeeded. But more than this, it means that they have learned how to overcome the obstacles in all of those tasks.

Are they confident that they can succeed at those things because they did, or because they know the majority of potential problems and how to overcome them?

Is a computer programmer confident at his job because he has a history of success, or because he's learned how to program?

I posit that it is the computer programmer's knowledge that gives him confidence. The fact that he has a long line of successes behind him, just proves to him that he knows what he needs already to do the job, and that he is not lacking something else that he needs.

So it's not the confidence that makes people succeed. It's their skill set.

If they are very likely to learn what they need to know in a very short time, simply by having a go, then certainly, just giving things a go will work. But then, if it was that easy, they would probably succeed even if they were overweight, and then they'd get the positive vibes and the confidence anyway.

Its more complicated. For example if i give you a problem that is easy to do you will almost always solve the problem no matter how absurd or nonsensical it is. You will find that people usually always solve problems that are easy. Of course knowing the solution means people will solve a problem and not knowing the solution people will sometimes chose to conserve energy rather than put effort into the task. Thus people always chose whether to solve a problem or  conserv energy. Conserving energy is also considered laziness. Well its also a valid strategy in life. CHose to spend energy where it is effective expenditure, rather spending energy on problems that dont help us. Well in case of being fat its a simple factor of motivation. Does losing weight bring pleasure. Well not in such an easy way as say eating a cookie. So naturally motivation is a simple control game. Do you have control over yourself or dont. So for example if eating cookies gives me immediate pleasure and not eating cookies gives me pleasure only in distant future then its obvious why people chose always mostly eating cookies over losing weight.

18 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

If getting into shape gets people a lot better physique, then that implies that she's much more attractive when she's thin and much more ugly when she's fat. So then thinking that she's ugly when she's getting fat is reasonable. But then she would know that getting into shape would solve her problem.

People do know it will solve their problem. It almost universally does. You rarely hear people losing weight and saying they hate the results. 

 

18 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

You're talking about when she thinks that she's ugly WHILE she is getting fat, i.e. BEFORE she is ugly by conventional standards, i.e. while she is still slim. But then she thinks she's ugly, even though she isn't. So she has a much more negative perception of her body's attractiveness than in reality. That means that she's unrealistic about people's expectations of her, and thus, of women in general. She thinks that no men would ever want to be in a relationship with anyone who wasn't a size zero. Well, that's going to hold her back, even if she gets into shape, because even women with really great physiques are not usually size zero. But she would know what men really want from a woman, if she talked to them in ways that didn't make men defensive and made men feel comfortable enough to be honest with her. So she's got serious communication problems in getting men to feel comfortable enough to be honest about their vulnerabilities. Even if she got into shape, she'd find it incredibly hard to get into a relationship with a guy, because she makes men uncomfortable, and they are hardly likely to tell her "I love you" if they never feel comfortable enough to open up. So even if she got in shape, she'd get lots of dates and lots of flings, but nothing that would convert into a relationship.

I lost track of what you are saying right about here. So what you are saying she is uncomfortable speaking to men? If thats so losing weight will help her gain confidence.

 

18 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

If she wants a man who prefers a size 8, she'll know that she's not ugly in his eyes at all, just a bit overweight. She'll lose the weight easily, because she knows that is the only thing holding her back, just like lots of women who go to the gym or go running, so that they are attractive.

Of course that is if she prefers men who want fat women. :laugh:

 

18 hours ago, scorpiomover said:

If she stays fat, it will be because she wants to, by making a rational choice.

Thats true however rational choice is always losing fat for health reasons, which are of course not primary goal of people who are in seek of pleasure and sex. But are primary rational choice for people who like to live longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cacao said:

Losing weight is a problem not because people  lack the motivation though. Its mostly that they have to watch their instincts. Most people can overdrive their instincts, but only if they make effort. Some fraction of people arent able to do it almost at all and are thus always under command of instincts. Each time that instinct of hunger kicks in one has to have the will to stop eating whatever they want. Most people clearly have a problem wiht this so thats why weight loss is a problem. People who can overdrive their own instinct to eat when hungry are usually not only fit, but also healthy, because they are in command not their instinct. So when their mind says eat vegetables they eat vegetables. When the mind says eat less sweets. They eat less sweets and so on.

Why people gain weight. Eating is associated with pleasure so when we eat our pleasure centers are active. Now most people have a insignificant life with little to no pleasure. Even if there is some pleasure its usually too rare to satisfy their pleasure centers. What it means is that people are actively seeking pleasure. For some pleasure is sex, dancing, taking drugs, or meeting friends or doing fun activieties where they use their creativity or sports. Either way we need some source of pleasure during the day to feel like the day has some meaning to us. Since pleasure seekers live for pleasure the instinct of pleasure is their primary source of satisfaction and thus they are constantly seeking out activities that are pleasurable. This is close to say smoking cigarettes. We smoke just for the buzz they give us. People often become addictied to cigs, but what they really are addictied to is the pleasure of the buzz and since during the day their pleasure centers are usually stale they activate pleasure centers by a short burst of cigarette smoke inhaled into the lungs.

So if we want a psychological explanation why she is probably overeating is simply the fact she is a pleasure seeker and wants a buzz of pleasure in her brain. Of course one can assume that this shortage of pleasure leads people to overeat so there must be something wrong in their life since their life is not pleasureable enough. The fact however is that success too gives people pleasure. It too can be addictive hence why games can be addictive or why a casino has so many people who will play until they are broke. Thus a small dose of change or a perception of easy win can keep people going and wasting money until they are broke. Either way her weight problem maybe contributing to feeling lack of pleasure. She may feel unattractive and thus a women in her age range who feels unattractive will have lots of bad feelings which will cancel out her pleasure. If you feel constantly unattractive you will have lots of reasons to feel down and unhappy. Thus eating will become paradoxally a pleasure to fill in for the lack of pleasure. 

Now the question is if that really is indeed the case which I dont know, but if it is indeed such a case then losing weight is surely the shortest way to solve the issue. Without psychotherpay, without drugs, or without some special psychological support and without creating a shitstorm of problems. And I think most people who lose weight do feel more attractive and more confidnet for variety of reasons. I rarely hear people say they lost weight and they feel bad, unattractive and unhappy. Unless they are sumo wrestlers or supersize models.

Its more complicated. For example if i give you a problem that is easy to do you will almost always solve the problem no matter how absurd or nonsensical it is. You will find that people usually always solve problems that are easy. Of course knowing the solution means people will solve a problem and not knowing the solution people will sometimes chose to conserve energy rather than put effort into the task. Thus people always chose whether to solve a problem or  conserv energy. Conserving energy is also considered laziness. Well its also a valid strategy in life. CHose to spend energy where it is effective expenditure, rather spending energy on problems that dont help us. Well in case of being fat its a simple factor of motivation. Does losing weight bring pleasure. Well not in such an easy way as say eating a cookie. So naturally motivation is a simple control game. Do you have control over yourself or dont. So for example if eating cookies gives me immediate pleasure and not eating cookies gives me pleasure only in distant future then its obvious why people chose always mostly eating cookies over losing weight.

People do know it will solve their problem. It almost universally does. You rarely hear people losing weight and saying they hate the results. 

 

I lost track of what you are saying right about here. So what you are saying she is uncomfortable speaking to men? If thats so losing weight will help her gain confidence.

 

Of course that is if she prefers men who want fat women. :laugh:

 

Thats true however rational choice is always losing fat for health reasons, which are of course not primary goal of people who are in seek of pleasure and sex. But are primary rational choice for people who like to live longer.

I hear lots of theory about why things should be as they are.

But it all amounts to you claiming the following:

4 hours ago, Cacao said:

Do you have control over yourself or dont. Conserving energy is also considered laziness.

That's useful for lazy people who have fat friends.

If a fat person has control over himself, he can lose the weight without his lazy friend's help. So his lazy friend doesn't have to do anything.

If the fat person doesn't have control over himself, he can't lose the weight, even with the help of his friend. So his lazy friend doesn't have to do anything.

But this thread is about how to talk to a friend who gained a lot of weight.

Your response would be useful for anyone who is extremely lazy, and wants an argument to evade having to help a friend who wants to lose weight.

But it doesn't cover what happens if the person cannot do it all by himself, and wants their friend's help, and their friend wants to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

I hear lots of theory about why things should be as they are.

But it all amounts to you claiming the following:

That's useful for lazy people who have fat friends.

If a fat person has control over himself, he can lose the weight without his lazy friend's help. So his lazy friend doesn't have to do anything.

If the fat person doesn't have control over himself, he can't lose the weight, even with the help of his friend. So his lazy friend doesn't have to do anything.

But this thread is about how to talk to a friend who gained a lot of weight.

Your response would be useful for anyone who is extremely lazy, and wants an argument to evade having to help a friend who wants to lose weight.

But it doesn't cover what happens if the person cannot do it all by himself, and wants their friend's help, and their friend wants to help.

All behaviour can be changed. The key is to know whats the source of behaviour and what are peoples motivations. Laziness is human nature, but so is hard work and so is overcoming hardship.

If you want to help someone change their behaviour to better themselves it doesnt always follow that you need to act on what you know about their core motives. If you want people to change you have to know what speaks to their motivation. Your advice doesnt have to be perfect nor does it have to be absolutly diplomatic. But sometimes some advice is much better than no advice. AOA knows her friend better than me though so whatever advice I would give her friend is always going to sound better from AOA if shes smart enough to put the advice into digestable words that make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Cacao said:

If you want people to change you have to know what speaks to their motivation. Your advice doesnt have to be perfect nor does it have to be absolutly diplomatic.

Yes. But it does have to be capable of working. Your arguments have been known about for over 50 years. They have an extremely high failure rate.

40 minutes ago, Cacao said:

But sometimes some advice is much better than no advice.

Very frequently, advice makes things worse, so frequently, and so much worse, that there's a general principle that no advice is almost always better than advice that you aren't almost absolutely certain will make things better.

42 minutes ago, Cacao said:

AOA knows her friend better than me though so whatever advice I would give her friend is always going to sound better from AOA if shes smart enough to put the advice into digestable words that make sense.

That would work, only if your advice would work. So far, all you've given her is that either her friend has the control over herself or not, and either she wants to lose weight or not. If she has the control over herself and she wants to lose weight, then according to you she has the power to lose the weight without anyone's held. But then she probably already would have lost the weight already. If she does not have the control over herself or she doesn't want to lose the weight, then according to you, there's nothing that AOA can do.

She clearly hasn't lost the weight already, or AOA would have not even started this thread. So your idea seems to be that there's nothing that AOA or her friend can do, and she should just tell her friend that she's a hedonist with no impulse control and should just enjoy eating, drinking, smoking, taking drugs and having sex until she dies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both of you are arguing for intervention.  And yet, people have mirrors and know when they've gained weight.  They don't need others to tell them the obvious and the health consequences associated to weight gain.

As someone who's never struggled with weight and am currently trying hard to put on weight by having calorific snacks prior to sleeping, I'd tell people to fuck off if they told me to gain weight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Distance said:

Both of you are arguing for intervention.  And yet, people have mirrors and know when they've gained weight.  They don't need others to tell them the obvious and the health consequences associated to weight gain.

As someone who's never struggled with weight and am currently trying hard to put on weight by having calorific snacks prior to sleeping, I'd tell people to fuck off if they told me to gain weight. 

So?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cacao said:

So?

Good job making no argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Yes. But it does have to be capable of working. Your arguments have been known about for over 50 years. They have an extremely high failure rate.

How do you know. Did you follow the people who lost weight and asked them why they lost the weight? I hardly think you did. So this statement is way over your knowledge. Also not sure if you know what I am arguing about. I said she can tell her lots of things about dieting and losing weight. Which is important in order to actually take action in meaningful way. Now Id argee that being reasonable with people doesnt lead always to reasonable action so her telling her friend how to do exercise or eat healthy may not lead to perfect results or no results at all or even a possiblity that she will just eat more. But last time I checked giving people advice was not a bad thing. It will likely give her an extra option of action thus if she will eventually admit she is fat and can lose weight she will be really doing well and lose weight. I think its possible to overthink stuff like this, but one cannot think of every possiblity that might happen, but its possible to use an assumption of likelyhood. If shes fat having someone supportive telling her she can lose weight might motivate her more than someone who will be just ignoring her weight until shes even more fat.

 

44 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Very frequently, advice makes things worse, so frequently, and so much worse, that there's a general principle that no advice is almost always better than advice that you aren't almost absolutely certain will make things better.

Depends. Are we talking about science or rock climbing or self defense or simple diet and fat loss? Telling someone to eat more vegetables will lead to a disaster? Now I know its a touchy subject in many cultures, (not sure why), but helping someone with dieting or general advice is common thing among people. People relatively often ask for advice from their friends. And sometimes its almost natural thing for friends to warn their friends of errors they make so much so that it is even considered rude not to give advice in case someone is going down a the wrong road and can actually end the friendship.

 

49 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

That would work, only if your advice would work. So far, all you've given her is that either her friend has the control over herself or not, and either she wants to lose weight or not. If she has the control over herself and she wants to lose weight, then according to you she has the power to lose the weight without anyone's held. But then she probably already would have lost the weight already. If she does not have the control over herself or she doesn't want to lose the weight, then according to you, there's nothing that AOA can do.

She clearly hasn't lost the weight already, or AOA would have not even started this thread. So your idea seems to be that there's nothing that AOA or her friend can do, and she should just tell her friend that she's a hedonist with no impulse control and should just enjoy eating, drinking, smoking, taking drugs and having sex until she dies.

You are wrong to think that motivation is binary from psychological stand point of view. Its not. Its in gradients. That way we can select priorities effectively because we can rate our motivations based on how much we are motivated. Its not either or, but its a selective process where people think back and forth and reevalue things making decisions whether to do something or not( devote energy or not) and they constantly rearrange their priorities. Thats why one day you may study for exame and next day you may go drink beer with friends even if the situation is nearly indentical. Binary thinking works for a machine that has no feelings and no complex personality. A human may be moody. One day she may feel like eating healthy and the next she may eat cookies all day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 2:35 PM, Jalex said:

This reminded me once when a bunch of friends got together, this Indian guy told one of our friends "hey, you gained a lot of weight".... wow... so so so rude.... and then almost 3 days of discussion why it was not OK even if in his Indian culture/background/habits telling someone they are fat is OK... they now live in a culture where that is plain rude and can be humiliating.

In most Latino cultures, it's considered fine manners to call someone "fatty" or "skinny" - no big deal. 

I kind of like that honesty - like everyone acknowledges the truth and seem to be better able to accept it.

I wonder if you consider all people world-wide, if only a small percent have a problem with such realities being noted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Amore said:

In most Latino cultures, it's considered fine manners to call someone "fatty" or "skinny" - no big deal. 

I kind of like that honesty - like everyone acknowledges the truth and seem to be better able to accept it.

In fact in latino cultures mentioning weight gain is bad taste while mentioning weight loss is most appreciated (in women it is desired to say so even if it is not true). About "fatty" and "skinny" they are nicknames not descriptions, and those nicknames usually are agreed on. If someone calls you fatty (which is aggressive by itself and almost never used with women) then they are allowing you to put a nickname on them.

In this case we are talking about two people that do not have that kind of relationship and that are not putting nicknames but mentioning weight gain (and disapproval of it... do you call in a friend to disapprove him? ok...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Jalex said:

In fact in latino cultures mentioning weight gain is bad taste while mentioning weight loss is most appreciated (in women it is desired to say so even if it is not true). About "fatty" and "skinny" they are nicknames not descriptions, and those nicknames usually are agreed on. If someone calls you fatty (which is aggressive by itself and almost never used with women) then they are allowing you to put a nickname on them.

In this case we are talking about two people that do not have that kind of relationship and that are not putting nicknames but mentioning weight gain (and disapproval of it... do you call in a friend to disapprove him? ok...)

No, that hasn't been my experience, and I will tell you I've had plenty of experience, so it's not just an isolated incident.

They phrase it in Spanish so that it is kind but still it's calling them "little fatty" or "little skinny."  I saw it over and over and no offense was taken.

Maybe this is a generalization - and in some latino cultures there are exceptions, but in a big group (of hundreds) from about 18 different Spanish-speaking countries, that was my observation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16/02/2017 at 11:07 PM, Cacao said:

How do you know.

In the 60s, 70s and 80s, millions of women believed that their lives would get better solely by dieting. So that's what they did. They dieted and dieted and dieted, 20 times a person. Every time, they'd lose the weight. Then they'd put it right back on again. It was so common that dieting became known as "yo-yo dieting". Doctors' attitudes towards dieting and losing weight completely changed, because it just wasn't working for so many millions of people so many times, that they couldn't ignore the evidence anymore.

Lots of obese people have paid for gastric band surgery to help them lose weight. They lost the weight. Then they put it back on again.

The NHS adopted a policy that applicants for free gastric band surgery have to spend months on a weight loss programme, take up healthy eating habits, and have to show they have a good mental attitude, to prove that they will keep the weight off afterwards, before they'll even consider doing the surgery anymore.

On 16/02/2017 at 11:07 PM, Cacao said:

Now I know its a touchy subject in many cultures, (not sure why), but helping someone with dieting or general advice is common thing among people. People relatively often ask for advice from their friends. And sometimes its almost natural thing for friends to warn their friends of errors they make so much so that it is even considered rude not to give advice in case someone is going down a the wrong road and can actually end the friendship.

Sure. But if they've got a lot of experience of dieting or have lots of friends who have done a lot of dieting, they'll know about how common it is for dieters' weight to yo-yo, that they'll probably recommend something other than just losing the weight, like changing what types of food you eat, when you eat, how you eat, getting regular exercise, and most important of all, changing your attitude towards food in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16. 2. 2017 at 11:51 PM, Distance said:

Good job making no argument.

Thank you. I dont like arguments.

 
 
...... added to this post 39 minutes later:
 
2 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

In the 60s, 70s and 80s, millions of women believed that their lives would get better solely by dieting. So that's what they did. They dieted and dieted and dieted, 20 times a person. Every time, they'd lose the weight. Then they'd put it right back on again. It was so common that dieting became known as "yo-yo dieting". Doctors' attitudes towards dieting and losing weight completely changed, because it just wasn't working for so many millions of people so many times, that they couldn't ignore the evidence anymore.

Lots of obese people have paid for gastric band surgery to help them lose weight. They lost the weight. Then they put it back on again.

The NHS adopted a policy that applicants for free gastric band surgery have to spend months on a weight loss programme, take up healthy eating habits, and have to show they have a good mental attitude, to prove that they will keep the weight off afterwards, before they'll even consider doing the surgery anymore.

Then it clearly it is not just about motivation, but also about two other things. First its priorities and then its about having correct information. Dieting in general is easy with many diets. Even the wrong type of diet works short term, but not long term. Good dieting is as you say about keeping weight off long term and it is clear that short term anyone can eat carrots all day and lose weight, but its not sustainable if you eat wrong type of foods for short time. Because people learn that eating less means less calories, but they dont understand that balancing food requires more than just abstaining from food.

I used to be fit. I know what it means to be fit and know how I made it work. It wasnt just about eating good. Its also about balanced diet and regulation.

Of course yoyo diet is common even today, but thats because peoples priorities change a lot. Its not about mental health really. Many mentally healthy people yoyo diet. Its about proper diet routine and keeping up that routine. Most people torture themselves into losing weight and after they lose weight they are so fed up torturing themselves the first thing they do is go to McDonalds and eat two burgers in one go. Then they go to a pizza place and then they go to a hotdog stand and then they realize they are back at square one. Thats what people with no common sense have problem understanding. They think its a short term activity where all they need to do is tortuer themselves for few months and its all good.

Real dieting is about setting up a comfortable routine and keeping it for rest of your life. This is about priorieties and commitment to a goal. Naturally if you have low motivation or depression or mental health problems or stress this might seem like a hard thing to do. But your saying this like only mentally unheatlhy people yoyo back. Everyone who goes on a diet yoyos back if they dont stick to what common sense dictates. It doesnt matter if you are psychotic or retarded or think that eating carrots will do the trick. Its simply that people have their priorities fucked up despite the motivation. I can be motivated to become an astronaut and many kids want to be astronauts, but only a handful of people really follow a career trajectory to become astronauts, because they arent setting their priorities correctly. If I am motivated to become astronaut, but I am more motivated to play a computer game instead of doing my math homework Ill never become astronaut. It doesnt matter just to have motivation, but it does matter to have priorities. Motivation is in gradients, but priorities are binary. Either you do or do not. No matter how much motivated I am to lose weight if I dont eat my veggies instead of a burger I will be fat. This is not about motivation. In fact Id say it doesnt take much motivation to lose weight if you just set your priorieties properly. And lets face it people are very bad at setting priorities.

18 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Sure. But if they've got a lot of experience of dieting or have lots of friends who have done a lot of dieting, they'll know about how common it is for dieters' weight to yo-yo, that they'll probably recommend something other than just losing the weight, like changing what types of food you eat, when you eat, how you eat, getting regular exercise, and most important of all, changing your attitude towards food in general.

It all comes down to semantics. When someone says dieting it can mean many things. It can mean eating carrots all day. It can mean running all day and eating cucumbers. Yet if you stick to well know information, even the down right retarded food pyramid, you will lose weight. You dont need special knowledge, all you need is change few minor priorities in life. You dont need even much motivation, but you do need to stick to your priorities. ANd you also have to avoid eating two burgers in a row or eating icecream everytime you lose a half a pound. This stuff isnt rocket science, but it does require some self regulation. Then again if peopl want to lose weight and can stick to a routine such as brushing teeth then they surely can stick to a routine of not eating shitty food and gorging themselves with fatty foods and sweets.

Now I already said I am fat, but I actually became fat after years of neglecting and not carring about my diet. This however didnt happen suddenly. I was overeating and enjoying food for a lot of my time. So naturally I ended up fat. I could blame it on stress( we all have stressful time in life), I could blame it on my meds( but lots of people who take them arent fat) I could blame it on depression since I had that too ( but if you know the statistics lots of people have a depression in life). People were depressed in the past and they were stressed in the past and they had problems in the past that had to do with mental health problems no question about it. So why were people in the past skinnier? Well mainly because they had different priorities. And they didnt have so much food either, but dieting litterally requires basic self regulation where instead of doing more you just do a lot less. Doing less in dieting is actually fast way to losing weight. Its basically the equivalent of your boss asking you to doing less work and getting better pay.

Now ofcourse if this is true then why people overeat? Well its not mental problems so much as its just simple human nature to eat a lot. And the bottom line is people have to come to realize that eating a lot is bad and then eat less. Then the question is why people need friends to tell them this. Well Id say its pretty important that a friend gives you advice, and why the fuck have a friend if you cant even expect them to give you advice. Or perhaps she just needs friends for social interaction where they go out and smile at each other and exchange few nice words. Who knows. I dont know what entials the defnition of friendship in this case, but if its at least half decent friendship giving her advice how to diet isnt a disaster like some people would like to have us believe.

The whole argument in fialed dieting is not in my opinion mental health so much as following basic rules. Most people who are fat simply break common sense rules becaues of failing to stick to priorities. Its not even about motivation. Lots of fat people cry that they are fat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not your problem, leave his fat ass alone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Real dieting is about setting up a comfortable routine and keeping it for rest of your life.

The definition of mental health according to those in the field, is dysfunctionality, being unable to establish patterns of regular behaviour that would allow one to function well on a consistent basis in real life.

42 minutes ago, Cacao said:

But your saying this like only mentally unheatlhy people yoyo back.

Doctors only diagnose someone as "mentally ill" when the patient's life choices are so dysfunctional that they are unable to live a normal life.

People can still have any number of personality conflicts and psychological problems and still function. But they are still likely to cause significant long-term issues.

51 minutes ago, Cacao said:

Everyone who goes on a diet yoyos back if they dont stick to what common sense dictates.

Yes. Most people know common sense. That is why it is called "common sense", because it's known by the common man and common woman.

Healthy nutrition has been publicised since before the 70s. The government puts out TV ads about healthy nutrition on a regular basis. You'd be hard put to find anyone today that doesn't know about healthy eating.

55 minutes ago, Cacao said:

People were depressed in the past and they were stressed in the past and they had problems in the past that had to do with mental health problems no question about it. So why were people in the past skinnier?

Everyone ate VERY little food compared to today, and got way more exercise than today.

Even in the 70s, going for a leisurely walk on a Sunday with 5-year-olds meant 2 hours walking at a leisurely 6 miles per hour. Taking teens for a "hike" meant walking for 10 hours, cross-country, including going up steep hills, with a couple of sandwiches for a packed lunch.

1 hour ago, Cacao said:

its just simple human nature to eat a lot.

People who are thin today, often eat no more than 2,000 calories, naturally. Anything more and they feel like they'll explode.

People get used to things they do regularly. It's called habit.

1 hour ago, Cacao said:

And the bottom line is people have to come to realize that eating a lot is bad and then eat less.

The body uses homeostasis to maintain itself, by keeping things the same no matter what. Eat less, and the body tries to compensate by getting the subconscious to eat for you when you're not conscious. Some people even sleep-eat, like sleep-walking.

It's confounded doctors, because it's meant that simple advice like you're recommending has consistently failed to work.

1 hour ago, Cacao said:

I could blame it on my meds( but lots of people who take them arent fat)

The majority of people who are on anti-psychotics are obese.

A few aren't. They're usually so skinny that they are under-weight and look like they are starving. They try to eat lots of food to gain a healthy weight. But they don't gain a pound.

1 hour ago, Cacao said:

I could blame it on depression since I had that too ( but if you know the statistics lots of people have a depression in life).

People suffering from depression have extremely low motivation, almost coma-level. But then, when normal people are occasionally depressed, they usually say "What's the point in trying? It won't help anyway." and don't even try. Imagine how it must be for those who are depressed all the time.

1 hour ago, Cacao said:

Lots of fat people cry that they are fat.

Since they cry, they want to be different.

They know what to do. The information is everywhere.

They don't have a problem making the effort to get up every day to be on time for work.

They don't have a problem making the effort to do most of the things that they do.

They have the desire. They have the general motivation. They have the knowledge. So what is different about losing weight?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

The definition of mental health according to those in the field, is dysfunctionality, being unable to establish patterns of regular behaviour that would allow one to function well on a consistent basis in real life.

Ok, but then dysfunctional means a lot of things many of which dont necessarily mean that the person is absolutly unable to function. It just means they have dysfunctional element of personality. I am dysfunctional yet I can diet, drive a car and go to work and have relationships and much more. The few people who wont be able to go on a diet are of course the people you probably mean, but I am not saying things are black and white. I mean its my opinion that if even mentally unhealthy people like depressed people are told to exercise or diet or keep a routine then its possible for lot other people to do it. Infact healthy life style is considered number one priority in mentally dysfunctional people. I have read lots of leaflets ever since I am dysfunctional and most advice is universal and says keep your life together as much as possible and stay physically healthy. It doesnt help to be mentally dysfunctional and adding physical problems to your life. That will even further hurt your mental life.

 

8 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Doctors only diagnose someone as "mentally ill" when the patient's life choices are so dysfunctional that they are unable to live a normal life.

People can still have any number of personality conflicts and psychological problems and still function. But they are still likely to cause significant long-term issues.

This just means we dont have to expect people to follow our advice for other reasons, because they may have other priorities conflicting with what we tell them. I was given lots of advice from other people, friends, family, stragers, teachers. I follow in general only about 1 out of 10 advices given to me. It however doesnt mean that the one single advice out of ten that I follow is insignificant or meaningless. Quite on countrary it is the most significant advice I was given in life and made my life much better. Also I was told to lose weight many years ago. I didnt follow the advice, but I do now and it didnt make the advice given to me many years ago meaningless. It was good advice. I didnt follow it so it wasnt my priority to follow it, but it wasnt wrong to give me advice.

12 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Yes. Most people know common sense. That is why it is called "common sense", because it's known by the common man and common woman.

Healthy nutrition has been publicised since before the 70s. The government puts out TV ads about healthy nutrition on a regular basis. You'd be hard put to find anyone today that doesn't know about healthy eating.

But the information has changed. And is even more advanced to common knowledge. While back then they would talk about veggies and stuff about vitamins now days its even better know. Now people talk about the validity of BMI and antioxidants and much more.

 

14 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Everyone ate VERY little food compared to today, and got way more exercise than today.

Even in the 70s, going for a leisurely walk on a Sunday with 5-year-olds meant 2 hours walking at a leisurely 6 miles per hour. Taking teens for a "hike" meant walking for 10 hours, cross-country, including going up steep hills, with a couple of sandwiches for a packed lunch.

SO what that means is that people had different priorieties that went hand in hand with healthier life style. Now these priorities diverge even more, because of office life and more intellectually demanding work and more intellectually focused recreation rather than physical life style. In stead of a hike kids play video games with their dads or something. Its different priorities which I meantioned.

 

16 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

People who are thin today, often eat no more than 2,000 calories, naturally. Anything more and they feel like they'll explode.

People get used to things they do regularly. It's called habit.

True, but it is easy to learn to eat more. We know that habit is not steel rule that cannot be broken. But people who dont eat 2000 calories a day, but less are the ones usually living a healthy balanced lifestyle. We would consider them to be the ones who are dieting, although they might feel like exploding I can assure you the habit of eating less is something that is learned and not universal in people however its easy to get used to eating well beyond your calorical expenditure. AND the reason is that if people cant eat more they would naturally starve. Getting fat is natural ability of people. Its so easy that once your metabolism gets boosted by more food it will crave even more food. Thats why we often see really fat people who dont need anymore food and yet they can consume 3 burgers in one go and be hungry in few hours.

 

23 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

The body uses homeostasis to maintain itself, by keeping things the same no matter what. Eat less, and the body tries to compensate by getting the subconscious to eat for you when you're not conscious. Some people even sleep-eat, like sleep-walking.

It's confounded doctors, because it's meant that simple advice like you're recommending has consistently failed to work.

There are lot of fat doctors. Its hard to give advice when your fat. Whats more doctors dont do a good job. A friend can talk to you for more than 5 minutes. A friend knows you better than a regular doctor. A doctor knows only what the screening gives him and what you tell him. A friend has more info and can give better life advice considering lifestyle. Thats why a single remark from a doctor saying you have to stop smoking is not as good as having a nonsmoking friend who eats vegan food and can give you a 50 minute spiel about lifestyle and the fact you know your friend really cares about you while you know that your just another patient to your doctor. Most doctors cant even convince me that they care. They are usually just useless pill pushers with little knowledge of your life and most doctors see you only once a year or when you have a unrelated problem to being fat. The other problem with doctors is that they arent exactly good at psychology. Not every doctor is Dr.HOuse who convinces you to take a liver transplant instead of commiting suicide.

 

29 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

The majority of people who are on anti-psychotics are obese.

A few aren't. They're usually so skinny that they are under-weight and look like they are starving. They try to eat lots of food to gain a healthy weight. But they don't gain a pound.

I dont have this information. As far as I know antipsychotics have side effects that do lead to obesity, but I dont have the statistics. Then again people who take antipsychotics are usually of different kind and have different problems. Most people who are on antipsychotics maybe tired a lot and sleep a lot and suffer from apathy, but these people arent the only people who take antipsychotics and people who take antipsychotics arent the only people who take meds. Also I didnt get fat because of antipsychotics. I am pretty sure I just eat a lot. And I am pretty sure I can lose weight despite me sometimes sleeping for up to 12 hours. But again it is generally good advice to tell people who suffer from psychosis to live active life style and keep physically healthy. Having schizophrenia and eating burgers until you get diabetes is not what you want to do.

 

34 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

People suffering from depression have extremely low motivation, almost coma-level. But then, when normal people are occasionally depressed, they usually say "What's the point in trying? It won't help anyway." and don't even try. Imagine how it must be for those who are depressed all the time.

Yes so they should just chuck away any advice because they are depressed. Makes healing much easier. Especially when you are eating 3 burgers a day and getting heart palpitations. Whats the most common given advice to people who are depressed? Get fat and dont exercise?

 

36 minutes ago, scorpiomover said:

Since they cry, they want to be different.

They know what to do. The information is everywhere.

They don't have a problem making the effort to get up every day to be on time for work.

They don't have a problem making the effort to do most of the things that they do.

They have the desire. They have the general motivation. They have the knowledge. So what is different about losing weight?

Priorities. Different priorities which I explained. There is also pleasure seeking. You need to go to work to enjoy pleasure. But you dont need to eat healthy to live a pleasureable life. But you do have the risk of shaving few years of your life by being fat and getting your organs all surrounded by huge fat deposit. I dont think its necessary to force people to lose weight if they dont want to. I already said I dont care if people have their priorities set differently from me, but that doesnt mean I cant give them advice that will help them. Its certainly OK to give advice and I would wager that most people would benefit from some of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now