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bella85

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About bella85

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    New Member

Personality

  • MBTI
    INFJ

Converted

  • Gender
    Female
  1. I'm the same way as you are. I can't stand flakiness, so when I make a plan with a friend, I follow through, even if I'm not in the mood. I treat people how I want to be treated. But I wouldn't be offended by this at all. I think you're right—he was trying to offer advice, but communicated it ineptly. "Treating friends like business clients" probably seemed like a really clever way to phrase it in his head, but he didn't factor in how you would take it. Thinking he's characterizing it as a "bad trait" is probably reading a little too much into what he said; this particular trait seems unrelated to making new friends, and more related to avoiding anxiety and hurt with existing friends. This is interesting. Have you mentioned to him that you're not concerned about his friends being flaky, and that you'll be supportive of him and friendly to them, regardless? If you haven't explicitly said this to him, he may be working under the assumption that you're going to have the same expectations for his friends that you have for your own, and that they'll inevitably disappoint you. (I'm just guessing; you two might very well have discussed this in depth, in which case, he should really know better!)
  2. Haha. You're right, I should be slightly more gregarious. Work has been busy for him since he just got back from vacation, but I'll ask him soon.
  3. I wasn't saying that at all. To clarify, I was asked what I liked about him. That's not something I can describe in objective terms; it's a subjective question, so I answered it subjectively. As for the shoes comment, I was being cheeky, but I really do respect and appreciate that he puts so much thought and research into his purchases.
  4. Thanks for the questions! Happy to provide more information. I've been attracted to him since I first met him, but because he was married at the time and my boss, I suppressed those feelings. The things I like most about him are his complexity and his kindness, not to mention his quirkiness. I like his quiet confidence and his sincerity. I like that he's blunt and doesn't care about social politics (i.e., office politics), but is still reserved in his communication and behavior with most people. He and I get along well and understand each other, but appreciate each other's differences. He has strengths I don't have, and I have strengths he doesn't have. Being around him is calming because I can be myself, whereas I usually have to wear a social mask. I like that he's unusual. I like that he takes three weeks to research every facet of a pair of shoes before he buys them. And, yes, I do like that he likes me; I especially like that he's only seemed to like me more as he's gotten to know me, and I feel the same about him. I can only guess how he would describe me here, but I'll give it a shot. I'm basing this on things he's said and witnessed and extrapolating, of course. I think he would say that I'm kind and considerate, and that I have a quick wit and occasionally strange sense of humor. He would say that I adapt well to different social environments and I converse with others easily, and avoid confrontation unless I'm egregiously insulted (he witnessed this once and respected the way I stood up for myself). He'd say I'm quick to defend the people I care about when I feel they've been misunderstood or mistreated. He'd say I'm beautiful, and am always surrounded by guys (which isn't actually true, but most of my work friends were male and flirted with me, which coworkers usually just do for entertainment). He has said that I'm organized and smart, have excellent technical skills, and am very creative. He has also said that my observations about other people and their motives are astute. He's said I'm better than he is at some facets of the work we do than he is, and that I have interesting ideas. Is any of that helpful/informative? It's hard to evaluate myself through someone else's perspective!
  5. Ha, well, to be fair, I would never write any of that to him! Nor would I ever write him anything of that length.
  6. As a woman who knows many female ENFPs, I can vouch for this as a solid strategy. It's pretty low-risk, too, and how she reacts is a good indicator of her intentions. You don't even have to say anything too revealing (although saying you like spending time with someone is just a nice thing to say!). My INTJ crush basically just teases me about the things he likes about me, and I think it's adorable. Also, breaking the touch barrier is usually a clue. Even extroverted women use this as a clue. If she's avoiding touch with others, this is something to take into consideration.
  7. 1. I usually know in advance. My friends and I are mostly planners. For my part, I'm unlikely to go anywhere without at least a day of notice because I have other obligations (as do my friends) and need to be able to plan accordingly. 2. Usually, yes, but it depends on the plans. If I agreed to go out of a sense of obligation, I'm relieved if there's a cancellation—for instance, if my friend wanted to go to a (loud, crowded) music festival and I agreed to go because she was so excited about it and I like spending time with her, but she ended up not wanting to go at the last minute. I breathed a sigh of relief just at the thought of that! But, for the most part, I make plans with my friends because I want to see them, and am disappointed if they flake. 3. Yes, I feel a huge sense of obligation, and I don't commit to plans unless I intend to follow through. Integrity is really important to me; I don't like it when other people are flaky (see exception above), and it would be hypocritical for me to be a flake. If I make a plan, I go through with the plan, barring an emergency. 4. I think it's workable. I could probably be more flexible about plans if I at least had a few hours' notice; I don't need to know too many details as long as I have a heads-up that something will probably be happening, and approximately what time. (I guess that's still not that spontaneous, though!) 5. I think it may be correlated to Perceiving types more than Judging, but I can think of several exceptions to this, so I haven't a clue (all of my ENFP friends are the exception). Of course, age and life stage probably have a lot more to do with this than anything; many of my friends have demanding jobs and/or demanding families/significant others, so we have to plan things in advance.
  8. I'm so sorry it turned out this way, but it's better to know now than invest a bunch of time and energy in him and have it turn out this way later. Let yourself feel what you're feeling, as intensely as you need to feel it, then keep working on yourself. You did the right thing by being honest with him.
  9. I can't say I have direct experience dating while emotionally unavailable, but I have dated someone who was, albeit very briefly because he realized he was emotionally available and ended things abruptly because he didn't want me to get too attached and didn't want to hurt me (he was an INTJ). I really resented being blindsided by his emotional unavailability (because he didn't tell me before he made this decision), and having a decision about my wellbeing made unilaterally. All that is to say, if I were in a similar situation to yours, I would probably do the same thing you're doing. It's hard to find someone you truly connect with, and I understand not wanting to take that for granted. I think what's "healthy" in a relationship is dependent on the people in the relationship, so I can't speak to whether your thoughts are healthy, per se. Familiar, yes, and I consider myself to be emotionally healthy, so take that for what it's worth. :) It does seem like you should be focusing on yourself right now, which you are, but that's not to say you shouldn't be with this guy at all, or that you can't make room for him while you're working on self-improvement; it may be wise to approach this relationship cautiously, if you aren't already (seems like you are), and take things slow. I'm sure you know this, but you're way ahead of the game by being so aware of your own limitations and forging ahead anyway. I'd say just keep lines of communication open so he knows what's on your mind and how you feel (that's probably a good rule in relationships, anyway).
  10. lol thanks for the totally accurate summary of my list. :) We don't work together anymore, sadly. But yeah, I was worried about the sexual harassment potential when we were working together, too, so both of us always stopped juuuuuust short of saying anything that could be construed as suggestive (he did make a few double entendres, but I'm pretty sure they were accidental; he's not very astute when it comes to that kind of subtle flirting, so I'd be surprised if he did it on purpose). I agree that I'll have to initiate, at some point, based on our preexisting relationship dynamics. Or just be really blatantly obvious about my interest, which is how I usually handle it.
  11. That's so cool—you're so lucky you get to live there. And good luck with the visa! :) Thanks. I agree with you that things may settle once his divorce is finalized and he's gotten some time to process. I think my real goal in posting here was to reassure myself that he'll probably continue to like me, because at this point, I really just want to wait it out, but only if it's worth it. I think he's worth it. Fingers crossed that we get to work together again (it's all very uncertain right now). Thank you for saying that! I wouldn't mind making the move in any other situation, but yeah, too complicated in this case. I really appreciate the encouragement. :) That's really interesting; he's definitely an INTJ (he's taken the paid test and many others, but if you met him in person, it would be painfully obvious). He may seem a little INTP-ish based on the list I made?
  12. Yeah, you're right. It's just so frustrating! Of course, to further complicate matters, most of his behavior with me started several months before he was separated (so, before September). But yes, I am able to be a good friend in spite of my feelings for him; I care about him and I only want the best for him, even if the best thing for him isn't being with me. Trouble is, in my experience, a lot of guys misinterpret my genuine effort to be a friend as romantic interest (even when I have no interest in them in that context!) and it almost always gets awkward. So I have to continue treading really carefully, which is not my favorite thing to do. There's also the possibility that he and I will be working together again sometime in the near future (although not in a manager/subordinate scenario this time), so it probably is best to keep a respectful distance for the time being. St. Petersburg! I was only there for a little over a year (2007 and a little bit of 2008), but I loved it and I really miss it. I'd actually done study abroad during undergrad (in 2006) and moved for a job after graduation; that company then ended up transferring me back to the States. Where are you in Russia?
  13. Thanks for the replies!! Okay here we go: First of all, millefleur, thank you SO MUCH for the thoughtful and detailed response. :) I have to answer this question first, because it impacts the other answers. His current situation is... complicated. I don't want to delve into it too much, but yeah, he definitely has baggage and extenuating factors that would prevent him from acting on any feelings he might have. He's going through a divorce, and has one young child (3 years old). I think at this point it's best to leave it up to him whether he wants to pursue anything with me; he just doesn't seem to have the bandwidth, and I doubt he'd be ready for anything at this point, anyway. I really like him, and I care about him, and I'd hate to do anything to jeopardize our friendship (getting involved with him before he's ready would be a mistake). I kind of want to leave this part up to him; he'll know when he's ready and I don't want to push him. Yeah, the "compliments" aren't really compliments, but... really positive comments with looks of awe (he's told me I look like certain blonde actresses and I'll say something like, "Uhhh, is that a compliment?" and he'll get awkward and just say, "Sure"). He usually just teases me and the implication is, "I think you're really great but I don't want to embarrass myself." It's pretty cute. He does the "wordless awe" thing more frequently than he verbalizes. Your husband sounds like a sweetheart. I lived in Russia for awhile, too! My INTJ did something similar, but with coffee (I love coffee). He really loves sweets, and food in general, so I baked him his favorite cookies; he loved that. I know. I KNOW. He has very expressive eyes. Anyway, thank you for all of your thoughtful analysis. I'm obviously totally smitten with this guy, but I don't know if things will work out, simply because of the horrible timing. In any case, it's nice to have the reassurance that his feelings are probably similar to mine. ...... added to this post 1 minute later: That's so sad—I'm so sorry you lost a good friend because of it! Losing friends can be even more heartbreaking than romantic relationships ending. (I don't blame his wife for feeling a little threatened, but it's still a sad reality to be faced with.)
  14. I'm not at all religious, so I can't speak to that, but as a female INFJ, I can tell you that I've had feelings that go against my own personal ethics, and it's very confusing. Even if he likes you, if he's anything like me, he won't cross any lines without very obvious encouragement. You never know what's going on in someone's marriage, though, and even the most moral people—in seemingly happy marriages!—are susceptible to extramarital crushes. You can befriend him, but be really careful about talking about personal lives, particularly personal problems (you should casually throw references about how great your husband is into the conversation, but not too often or he'll think you're overcompensating), and keep it mostly professional. If you or another coworker can include him in group lunches and talk to him a little, that would probably be the least risky way to approach him (i.e., "Hey, we're all going to lunch, would you like to join?"). This will depend on your office environment and how common that kind of socializing is, but it's one possible option. It's really important, if you do want to befriend him, to maintain appropriate boundaries; you'll probably know what those are, and he probably will, too. If he tests the boundaries, you'll need to reinforce them. (It'll probably take a little while for him to get comfortable enough with you to even have a friendship, so I'm projecting way into the future with this piece of advice.) I should clarify that, speaking as an attractive young-ish woman, I've been able to build and maintain friendships with male senior-level coworkers and managers (with one exception, which I coincidentally just posted about earlier). Just because they're attracted to you doesn't mean they'll do anything about it.
  15. I've been perusing this forum for a few months, trying to get up the nerve to post yet another "does this INTJ like me?" thread. I'm pretty confident that the INTJ in question is romantically interested in me, or possibly ridiculously bad at conveying that he only sees me as a platonic friend, but I think I just need some relatively objective insights to validate my intuition. About me: I'm a 31-year-old female INFJ. Generally horrendous at describing myself. I suppose I'm pretty friendly and exhibit most of the standard INFJ traits. About him: He's 41 years old and, obviously, an INTJ. He's one of the kindest people I know. He's stoic and quiet around people he's not close to, but really quirky and silly once you get to know him. He was my boss and we worked very closely for two years; I was his closest friend in the office, and he very nearly cried on my last day, which is the most emotional I’ve ever seen him. We're still in somewhat regular contact and see each other about once a month. I'll put the clues in handy list format for easy scanning. (I was going to try to keep it short, but that didn't happen, so thanks in advance for slogging through it!) Why I think he likes me: He seems to remember everything I say and do and brings it up later (sometimes over a year later). He's shared a lot of personal information with me, and confided in me about some of his insecurities and feelings. He's also told me a lot of stories about himself and his past. I've confided in him about my personal life, and he always seems interested and asks questions. Speaking of which, he's asked me a lot of questions about myself, my friends, and my family. He once asked me if I wanted kids (after we walked by a baby in a stroller). I mentioned an ex-boyfriend who worked in the same industry as we do and he asked questions about the guy and why our relationship didn't work out. He's usually extremely quiet and withdrawn, but lights up and becomes social and friendly with both me and others when I'm in the vicinity. If I’m talking to someone else, he’s always nearby and listening, and he takes any opportunity to get my attention. In a large group, he's either sitting/standing right next to me or staring at me. He's always keeping track of where I am, which, by the way, is not at all subtle. When it’s just the two of us, particularly for shorter periods of time, he gets quiet unless I talk. He does try to prolong our time together (i.e., by finding more places to walk to). He tends to take me for impromptu tours of random places, like the seventh floor of the office building ("Let's walk the other way around today! Look, they changed the art on the walls"). The tours are definitely more interesting when we're outside the building. :) We used to run errands together in the middle of the workday, a tradition that I started but he perpetuated. We'd do things like go to clothing stores and try on ridiculous hats and sunglasses (in between the errands he actually needed to run). When we took his car to run the errands, he always changed the radio station to the one I liked. There were days when we should've only been gone an hour but were gone for three, because he kept taking me to stores I liked. He's always teasing me, mostly about the same silly things over and over. He's complimented/made favorable observations on my appearance, sense of style, personality, talent, and intelligence. I have one dress that's clearly his favorite (so many compliments, so much staring). He noticed when I changed my hair once and he said he liked it. He's teased me about being younger than he is/looking young for my age/being pretty (he basically just compliments me in really awkwardly endearing ways). He once quasi-teasingly called me an angel, which would've been embarrassing if I hadn't swiftly deflected it. At work, every time I did anything clever or made a logical connection, he'd say something like, "See, this is why I told them we needed someone really smart!" He's done me small favors, like loaning me things that I don't even know I need, usually without me asking or even expecting him to. I'm the only one in our group of friends/acquaintances who's allowed in his personal space: He likes to hug me, and he's initiated (I usually initiate, though). The hugs tend to be on the longer side. He accidentally-on-purpose finds ways to touch me: touching my hand while passing a plate at a restaurant; letting me put my hand over his while showing me something on his phone and then not moving his hand away; legs touching under the table and then not moving away; bumping into me while walking, etc. (For reference: he's super jumpy and flails wildly and dramatically when other people touch him, so I know he usually hates it. I also know he's very spatially aware and perfectly capable of avoiding unwanted contact.) He got really weird (broke eye contact, turned to look at his computer, acted frosty) when I told him one of our former coworkers asked me out a few months ago. He snapped out of it when I told him I wasn't at all interested in the guy. More and more frequently, he'll get this really sweet, vulnerable look on his face when he's looking at me (his eyes get all… melty; don't know how else to describe it). This often happens when I'm really close to him, like when we're about to hug, but I've also noticed it when we have prolonged eye contact. It's been six months since we worked together, and every time he sees me now, he behaves the same way, but he's more obviously flirtatious. I last saw him right before Christmas and I could tell he was really happy to see me, because as soon as he did, he wouldn’t leave my side, even though I was also visiting with other people. Believe it or not, I've cut out a lot of details. So, based on the above info, do you think this guy is into me? Or, do you think there's any possibility he just sees me as a friend and doesn't know how to moderate his behavior or something? Am I reading too much into his actions? I know he likes me as a person and trusts me, at least, which is always nice. I should also mention, I've been fairly obvious about the flirting, but not too obvious; the stakes are high for reasons I don't want to get into, and it goes beyond the threat of potentially embarrassing myself. I'm pretty sure he's aware that I'm into him, though. I also don’t really know what to do about it, whether he thinks of me as a friend or a romantic interest; I don’t text him very often because he’s legitimately busy and I don’t like to feel like I’m intruding, but he always answers either right away or within a few hours. He’s also really bad at text-based conversation. I feel like I’ve been work-friend-zoned and I don’t know how to transition from work-friend to actual-friend. I also don't want him to think I'm pressuring him into anything, in the event that he knows I like him and he's not interested. Thoughts?