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poizon

Veteran Member
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About poizon

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    Veteran Member

Personality

  • MBTI
    IxTJ

Converted

  • Gender
    Male
  • Personal Text
    Qui vivra verra

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  1. Too vague. In what field? I could apply this same reasoning to why men aren't in nursing careers as much. Is it that men are seen as less skilled or able when compared to an equally skilled or able woman? awww, don't do their work for them I see, although it has to be taken knowing this important bit of information: "Now to be clear, the paper has yet to be peer reviewed, and it’s possible the researchers missed another factor that could explain why women are punished more severely." and "The sample size was large, initially including all 1.2 million U.S. financial services employees registered with the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority from 2005 to 2015. Brokers and advisers registered with FINRA are required to disclose customer complaints and arbitrations, regulatory actions, employment terminations, bankruptcy filings, and criminal or judicial proceedings on their official record. That FINRA data, however, does not include gender as a variable, so the researchers used GenderChecker software to match and assign 82% of the advisers to a gender." From this evidence provided, we can make the assessment that the numbers make Wells Fargo look discriminatory. However, if we were to bring up data of how men get fired more in teaching jobs than women, would you be willing to say that, in the teaching profession, men are discriminated against? It's like saying blacks make up a small percentage of the population but commit most of the crime compared to other races and therefore it's because of XYZ reason. The statistics themselves only speak the what, not the why.
  2. Truth is, regardless of whether one thinks one way or another. For example: The fact that mount Everest is the tallest mountain on Earth was always a fact even when people thought another mountain was tallest. How do we find truth? What makes something true? Is it a news site? An article on the web? A study? A picture? Is it your senses? What makes something a truth? When we get cut, we bleed, and we assume that because of tv, the internet, and those around us for example, that everyone must bleed but how would one know that? Are humans bound to be limited to a smaller sense of reality?
  3. No of course not. That would be quite difficult. However, you've made some pretty big claims that I would like supporting evidence for but you haven't answered my question hmmmm. You stated "There are still sectors and fields that discriminate against women, leading to fewer promotions and an inherent "gap"." to which I asked "Which sectors/fields"? Care to answer that question? Or is it that you can't? Codified into the law? Explain. Oh alright, I'm so sorry. Your supporting evidence has blown me away. I'm a total believer. Your links were outstanding. I did not commit that fallacy. Did I say that "They aren't real men, so they don't count." Do you even know what that fallacy means? It's not that I'm saying your claim of evidence isn't evidence, I'm simply stating it's not enough/convincing. What if I told you there are supporting facts including discrimination court cases, testimonials from men who have faced discrimination and bias, testimonials from women who have done these things, and from general statistics of job and promotion placements to support the idea that men are discriminated against in female dominated work. Would you believe me or would you expect me to actually provide that evidence? If asking you to provide statistics isn't enough for you to understand that I would like you to provide statistics then I don't know what to say to get you to provide this magical statistical evidence you claim to have. Ok, so then there was discrimination at a very specific location of Wells Fargo and it got resolved. How does this prove that there's a widespread discrimination of women? That's like saying "Men are discriminated against in the workplace, just talk to my friend! He experienced it! and oh yeah, there was that one place that was clearly firing men more than woman so it was definitely discriminating against men! Just like everywhere else in the world". See how illogical that sounds? Well you've made it easy on yourself by backing up into a corner so you don't have to actually provide evidence but if you refuse to back up your claims in the next post then I'll take that as a surrender. ...... added to this post 7 minutes later: Awesome. I didn't disagree per say but having evidence for your position is important. I appreciate the effort. This is great.
  4. I can't say I understand you're point. What article? Fair enough but it matches the economic argument you made. You're arguing from a purely economic standpoint so I provided a hypothetical that should be true if your argument was correct. You stated that "Meritocratic policies must eventually win in a free market, because they optimize the application of talent" You also state that "Businesses exist to create a return for their owners" so would you agree that businesses are motivated by profit? Of course you would. Therefore, by the economics of it all, if a business can hire a woman or a man for 50% of the cost and still get the same ability from either gender for example, then we should expect to see a movement to hire more men or women in certain areas, however, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. You're either saying that men and women aren't capable of the same abilities, are statistically favorable for certain abilities, or you're just taking the easy way out by saying "things are the way they are because they're the way they are for a good reason, and it's economics, the free market etc.".
  5. The mention of an alternate reality was supposed to counteract your point. If you were correct then we'd see that effect would we not? Care to provide any rationale? Which sectors/fields? Discrimination court cases focus on events occurring in specific times, places, involving specific people, circumstances etc. It doesn't automatically explain a worldwide phenomena. Personal anecdotes are similar. Again, specific men, don't speak for all men or represent anywhere near the majority. Oh statistics? I'd love to see them. Agreed. and I assume those cases were taken seriously correct? Justice was served and everyone moved on with their lives correct? Agreed, but I don't see what that has to do with the discussion.
  6. I would agree, however you must also consider the fact that behaviors do vary regardless of these hormones (Masculine women/Feminine men). I'd also like to point out that although your personal anecdote supports your position, singular pieces of evidence are not enough to prove a position. Do you have any evidence to support the ideas you've listed? I see. An economics argument. So essentially you're saying that businesses will do what's best for themselves, due to profit motives, and therefore, the results of employment reflect that? If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me but I will base my next statements on this understanding. I appreciate the economics point of view, however I believe that your position ignores some other facts. If it is a business's incentive to create the best return for their owners, then wouldn't you see a constant shift in gender employment? For example, if a business could hire a man for 50% of the cost of a woman in nursing for example, then why wouldn't we see a shift in male employment towards nursing?
  7. Gender is not a social construct, but that's another thread idea. Perhaps you could make it if I don't get to it. Do you have evidence that there is a power conflict between men in power and women looking to work? It's not that women are paid less for being mothers, it's the calculations of the total incomes of men and women being effected by that factor. I agree with your last statement and I believe the majority share this view however, it must be highlighted that it is illegal in the United States of American to discriminated based on sex due to the civil rights act "UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT PRACTICES SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703] (a) Employer practices It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer - (1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s race, color, religion, sex, or national origin; or" source: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm For the claim of discrimination to be taken, there must be evidence to support this idea.
  8. Of course there's a wage gap between the two genders, however many people feel differently about why this is the case. Some say that society discriminates against women in various types of work such as leadership positions and technical subjects like Computer Science. Others believe that men and women are simply different and desire different kinds of work. Some look deeper into the statistics of it all to understand the issue better. What's your belief on this issue and where is your supporting logic & facts to provide your arguments with substance? I intend this debate to be civil, respectful, and actually come to a comprehensive conclusion on the matter. I will define the wage gap using this amount of evidence from the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-earnings/archive/highlights-of-womens-earnings-in-2014.pdf As you can see, it is clear that men seem to make more money in certain careers as opposed to women who make more in other careers (Page 6 of the pdf). To simplify this debate, we will not be discussing if the wage gap exists (It does based on career choice [evidence provided above]) but rather why it exists. Note that the evidence provided is from 2014 and is not up to date (2017), however, I believe that these statistics hold true today although numbers will vary.
  9. @Distance Much appreciated. The thing is, are they really an *insert MBTI type here* if they don't follow the descriptions 100%? I mean look at the "INTJs" here. Perhaps this is the failure of mbti itself. It doesn't account for enough of the variety we see in human personality.
  10. I knew I'd get a response like that. If you look at the descriptions of the various types, many of them explain that they get bored easily or don't often like having intellectual conversations. If I remember correctly, it was ISTPs and ENFJs that fit this. In this case, if it's literally a part of someones' personality to not like intellectual conversations/debate, then why waste your time?
  11. and why? I've spent quite a bit of time debating people but surely there's a way where I can discriminate based on type so I know what to look out for and not waste my time?
  12. No, your sex is your sex regardless of what a delusional mind may think it is. People choose how to see things, not how they actually are. People limit themselves. up to society to figure out legal things. Simple.
  13. if one were to state that male and female brains are immutable as a whole then yes, I'd completely agree. Surely there's male and female instincts outside of the obvious ones like those involved with child rearing and the like. This leads me to think that there's at least parts of the brain that are indeed immutable. There's common instincts that all humans share. Agreed, although there's definitely a lack of thinking things through & intuition in our current times
  14. I'd agree that our environment can shape our Biology but to an extent just as our Biology can influence our psyche to an extent. Well that depends on if traditional gender roles are actually determined by Biology or not. I'm not sure. But whether they are or not, happiness is a different thing entirely from Biology but then again, so much of our instincts and desires are based on happiness. I'm not saying one is true and the other is false. I think there's gotta be a combination of both. Maybe. I think it's a possibility. I'm just thinking out loud.
  15. Those physical characteristics can actually be quite telling. Well then what are you even trying to prove? Are you just stating the obvious? So basically a more wordy version of what I just said, ok. How classy. lol @"so far". Moving on. @brainstorm I think your assumptions are incorrect hence the answers you're getting here. It's important to start from a more fundamental portion of the discussion so you get more meaningful responses. Otherwise, you just have people who want to point out your errors rather than contribute to the actual question being posed.