[OrrDavey]

I did not know that about raccoons. I guess you learn something new every day.

Awesome stuff by the way.

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by Fanowene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In some ways I feel like I shouldn't be clogging up this thread with all of my personal issues, but then again I think I could serve as a good real life example to show what could be going on in the head of an INTJ?

Now I totally understand the raccoon washing cracker analogy.

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Fanowene...
I think the source of all your confusion is that you have ZERO information about these guys. You're trying to make a decision on whether or not you should have a relationship with them, with a list of stats that are insignificant because you don't have anything more than an acquaintanceship with them.

Stop deciding whether or not you should talk to 1,2 or 3 and just talk to all of them (well maybe not guy 1, you went too far by asking him if you were annoying him again). A conversation does not equal dating. It doesn't even mean that you're obligated to talk to them again if you find that they're not compatible. Seriously, just view it as if you were making a new friend. I think once you've gotten to know them in person, then you can figure out if you really like them.

[Fanowene]

Originally Posted by ricearoni To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think the source of all your confusion is that you have ZERO information about these guys. You're trying to make a decision on whether or not you should have a relationship with them, with a list of stats that are insignificant because you don't have anything more than an acquaintanceship with them. Stop deciding whether or not you should talk to 1,2 or 3 and just talk to all of them (well maybe not guy 1, you went too far by asking him if you were annoying him again). A conversation does not equal dating. It doesn't even mean that you're obligated to talk to them again if you find that they're not compatible. Seriously, just view it as if you were making a new friend. I think once you've gotten to know them in person, then you can figure out if you really like them.

Probably very true... I think I should just stop posting about it here until I've talked to at least one of them.
Gosh, I'm starting to look ridiculous. This is exactly why I don't normally express what is going on in my head!
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At least I am getting something out of it this time... And I do have to keep reminding myself that I've not made any commitments by just talking to the guys (once I come around to doing that...). And it's not like I'd be stuck in anything I couldn't get out of... It's not like any of them could say "but you talked to me, therefore you must...".

The making new friends analogy doesn't really help here, though.
I don't normally make friends. It's just the people that run into me several times every day and who I decide I don't dislike that end up being "friends" with me. And not even close friends (with very few exceptions). And once they stop being around me all the time they normally also stop being my friends after a while (again, with very few exceptions). I am not looking into making long-term friendships at the moment because I know I'm not settled yet and neither are the people I'm around most of the time. I guess in my mind a relationship would be different because I'd be willing to make compromises for that person and would expect my partner to do the same. Although, again, this makes me think about whether or not it really would be a smart idea for me to seriously start dating. My willingness to get to know people is really limited at the moment...
But at least I know what you meant with your making friends analogy. Thanks.

Oh yeah, and the Gene Kelly movie was a flop by the way. Not at all what I was expecting when they said they were watching a Gene Kelly movie... It was the one about the evolution/monkey trials.





Fanowene added to this post, 16 minutes and 29 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by rara avis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I like this thread, yet it somehow reminds me of watching raccoons trying to wash saltines.

Ok, I haven't commented on this one and I guess I should: It's so true! Thanks for this visualization.





Fanowene added to this post, 14 minutes and 58 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Fanowene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And I do have to keep reminding myself that I've not made any commitments by just talking to the guys (once I come around to doing that...). And it's not like I'd be stuck in anything I couldn't get out of... It's not like any of them could say "but you talked to me, therefore you must..."

I guess I should also say that adding those guys as my friends on Facebook already was a big step in that direction for me... I still feel quilty as far as "What if I turn out not to be interested in them?", "What if they tell me I'm mean because I raised their hopes too much by adding them to Facebook?", "What if the guy I end up being interested in loses interest in me after finding out that I've added multiple guys, not just him?", ...

I also if the one experience I've had of a good friend of mine falling in love with me also has an impact on how I'm reacting now. I really didn't have any romantic interest in that friend, but he wouldn't take no for an answer, so in the end I had to tell him not to contact me, or else I'd block him (I was leaving the country anyway). So maybe that bad experience now has an effect on how I evaluate these present situations? I don't know.

( Show Spoiler )

I think he still might not have gotten over me, after close to over 1.5 years... I know he hadn't gotten over me after over 0.5 years when he sent me a huge bouquet for Valentine's Day... At least he went to Canada for his studies and not to the U.S. or even to my uni.
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I think Canada was what he could afford (since he can't take advantage of U.S. Financial Aid since he's not an American citizen.

"If I do decide that I'm not interested, how hard will it be to get rid of him/them?"...

[curiousjane]

No matter how many times you go over a potential in your head, it will still remain just that—a POTENTIAL, not a reality—unless it is pursued, sought out, investigated, tried, or dropped.

Fanowene, start by being approachable. Follow up with a smile. Your thoughts may be going a mile a minute, but your actions are lagging way behind, girl!

After that smile, if a conversation ensues, follow it. If it doesn't, keep walking to class and chat it up with the nice guy who sits next to you and makes a funny comment under his breath about the teacher's bad tie. Interact. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy others. Don't fret about them leaving you after the semester is over. Just let what is ... be.

There's nothing wrong with being fully aware of how you operate, or what you are thinking. There's nothing wrong with trying to sort through stuff. There's nothing wrong with thinking things through.

There IS something wrong about playing the same record over and over and over. You're going to wear yourself out that way. (Trust me, I know!) I've come to truly believe that if you have to over-think it. If you wonder constantly. If you are obsessed with making it make "sense" ... then it probably isn't going to happen. Been there, done that. Bought the bumper sticker.

Having said that, I think one way that xNTJs are supremely well-equipped for the "dating game", despite emotional challenges, is the ultimate need to perfect whatever you do. You learn and adapt and improve and eventually conquer/excel at whatever you put your mind to. And when that is a relationship ... lucky guy, lucky girl who has your full attention!
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[Fanowene]

	Originally Posted by curiousjane To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After that smile, if a conversation ensues, follow it. If it doesn't, keep walking to class and chat it up with the nice guy who sits next to you and makes a funny comment under his breath about the teacher's bad tie. Interact. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy others. Don't fret about them leaving you after the semester is over. Just let what is ... be.

I actually do talk to the guys who sit next to me. But I'm mostly the one making the comments under my breath. It makes class so much more enjoyable...

[curiousjane]

	Originally Posted by Fanowene To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I actually do talk to the guys who sit next to me. But I'm mostly the one making the comments under my breath. It makes class so much more enjoyable...

In that case, you and I would be instant friends if we had class together.
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For all of the pondering and analyzing you've done in this thread, though, I have the sneaky suspicion that you'll do just fine once you hit it off with someone in person. Facebook ... bleh ... I have an account, it's great for keeping up with my real friends and family members, but terrible for stalking, well, because you CAN stalk. You can learn a lot of "facts" about someone without actually knowing THE PERSON himself (or herself).

It's interesting to read what you've written, though. Because up until very recently, I had a similar thought process going on in my brain, flashing from neural pathway to neural pathway unchecked. On good days, it was delicious! On bad days, it was depressing. Whatever anyone may say or think, you're not crazy. You're just a researcher. You love your research, and you're fascinated by your subject matter.

[Fanowene]

	Originally Posted by curiousjane To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For all of the pondering and analyzing you've done in this thread, though, I have the sneaky suspicion that you'll do just fine once you hit it off with someone in person.

Thanks for the reassurance.
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Fanowene added to this post, 133 minutes and 14 seconds later...

Oh, something that came to my mind as I was going to sleep last night: Now I know why I knew that about the raccoons: The German word for raccoon is "Waschbär" (= wash bear). I remember reading about why they are called that in some children's magazine. But I can't remember if raccoons really were named "Waschbären" because they wash their food or if it was for some other weird reason (or no real reason at all).





Fanowene added to this post, 204 minutes and 29 seconds later...

Ok, I just had a small *woot* moment: There's going to be an appreciation dinner for members of the residence hall councils. Guy #3 and I both are in the councils for our respective dorms. And since the dinner will be held in Guy #3's dorm and because food isn't "free" on Saturdays, I'm pretty darn sure he'll be there... I can see online how he RSVP'd anyway (the invites were just sent out, so he hasn't responded yet). 10 more days...

On a side note: I'm pretty close to chucking Guy #2 off of my list. He's pretty much off already, I think...

[Lucid]

I've just been told that I don't flirt. Even when I try.

All this time I thought I did ok at it.
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Well crap.
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[dalidaisy]

Originally Posted by Rei To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm female... and I'm highly conservative in terms of these kinds of things. I've never actually made a move. However, I have made it clear I was mmm... interested (which already took a lot because like elsdfr said, admitting feelings isn't my strong point. Partly because deep down, I do see feelings as a weakness. And partly because feelings are rather foreign to me and I don't really know how to explain or deal with it.). The guy either didn't get it or wasn't interested in dating. How I'm dealing with it? Not very well. The fact that it's so up in the air is killing my need for closure. In the past getting over people I was interested in. I had to find one very good reason why it was 'wrong' or that it wouldn't have worked out. Until I do, I'm a bit of a wreck because I simply don't know what to do when feelings happen to me and logic doesn't make things make sense.

Ok, I'm new here, but this struck a chord. I have such a need for closure that it is incapacitating & I need some help...

I had been seeing a guy for a about a month & it was actually quite good. There were some things about him that I wasn't sure I could live with, but I was willing to see where things went, because I was really having feelings for a change!

Well, then he just disappeared. Quit calling, quit texting, no emails. I tried to contact him. I got a text that he wasn't avoiding me & was very busy at work. Then, nothing...

This was strange because this guy was saying really serious things about how he felt about me & was making believe that we could possibly go somewhere.

I sent him a text, then an email & finally a voice mail. All with no reply. Now, I don't know what to do. I'm no stalker. I don't want to keep tying to contact him. I don't think I could ever like him again & don't even think I want to know him anymore for having such disregard for me.

But, the not knowing is killing me! It's been a week with no closure. It's affecting my mood, my sleep, my eating.

Why can't I get over this???

[rara avis]

Well. This probably isn't going to be incredibly helpful, because emotions do not generally respond well to logic, and it seems to me that you can only wait for them to wear away with time, sometimes. Plus, it may just not be helpful logically to your situation anyway...

But because I can be a self-winder, I have a very general rule: if I truly initiate contact with someone three times and they don't respond, Game Over on my part.

(Which is not to say I won't be available at all if they do eventually return contact, just that I'm not pushing it anymore.)

Sometimes the only closure you really get is in drawing a line in the sand for yourself. Sucks, but you can only work with what you've got.

[Cyrus]

Hello everyone.

Something I realised growing up as an INTJ is that we tend to be alot less aware of (1) how we come across (2) human/emotional factor.

While we generally do not like emotion, it is part and parcel of being human. Scenario planning in e direction of emotional stuff like someone you hv a crush on...doesn't fly most of the time (sorry~).
It works, when you have more information and know how the person ticks...which means you have to go and interact first... beyond that.. not much one can do.

As an INTJ, I've got 2 solutions to this
(1) either I learn to smile and wave and temporarily "fit in" to see if there is anyone in tt particular bunch of people that's worth talking to
(2) come to the resolution that I'm not going to get along with about 70% of the population, since 75% are Es and the other 70% are S types, generally causing a big perceptual difference. --> dont see a point in trying to hang out or make close friends with people who are not.

It's a mixture of both la. What I've found to be very helpful is to learn to read people's intentions and character through their actions (body language, gestures, posture, etc) and what they say.
Try it. You'll be amazed how much you can tell about a person, and if anything @ all, it's a good exercise in learning to be focused on other people instead of all the thoughts (and snide remarks) that are perpetually running through our heads.

Often times, NTs tend to have very similar characteristics (especially that calculative glace/stare + silence
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); recently made 2 pretty good friends after cutting through a whole buncha people cause I thought they looked like NTs or @ very least, INs.

Get outta your head and talk to people. =) Circulate yourself and you'll find more Ns out there, and meeting more people also increases your sample size, and thus the odds of you meeting someone who might be compatible.

[dalidaisy]

	Originally Posted by Cyrus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Get outta your head and talk to people. =) Circulate yourself and you'll find more Ns out there, and meeting more people also increases your sample size, and thus the odds of you meeting someone who might be compatible.

Thanks... Sometimes I need a push... Maybe I'll start by looking in dark corners & work my way out...

[lancelot]

Originally Posted by Sevs To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hi there. I was wondering how many of you like or play the so called "dating game". Personally i totally hate clubbing and dating and I see no point in it. As clubs are totally fake environments and people try to be better than they actually are. Also the whole getting to know someone to me is just total BS. Also I am aware that there are loads of "tricks" to make other people fall but it just doesn't seem right. I met my now ex girlfriend at school and it started out with revising maths together. There was never any need for all this superficial "dating" and feelings just developed genuinly. One of my biggest fears is that i'll stay alone for the rest of my life from now on as i refuse to play "the game" and i very much doubt to be as lucky as with my last gf again. I was just wondering how other INTJs see the whole thing. Regards sev.

Not good at dating, I over think the whole idea of dating, this is why I ruin it!

I'm able to talk to women who are physically attractive(sex appeal) and feel comfortable; the physical aspects of women, and the idea of getting together make it easy. At the same time, I avoid sex outside of marriage, and to me, looking for a sexual partner it's pointless. I guess I'm dumb enough to think there is such a thing as true love!

....When I think of having a life long relationship with a woman, all of the sudden everything is complicated, I become insecure and try too hard to be perfect.

[Zombicide]

I think it's annoying, I don't even see how other people find the dating game to be of any fun but meh. I do kind of do use online dating sites to find people of interest but that's not necessarily for dating or at least not in the classic sense.

[dalidaisy]

Yea, the word game kinda kills it right from the start... I've met some pretty intersting people on some sites myself... I find it mildly entertaining...

[Fanowene]

	Originally Posted by dalidaisy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yea, the word game kinda kills it right from the start... I've met some pretty intersting people on some sites myself... I find it mildly entertaining...

At the moment I think it's really interesting, probably because it's still a pretty big mystery to me. I don't know how it works, it's not predictable... It's something to keep my mind busy with during classes and such.

[dalidaisy]

Right, terribly unpredictable, but fun nontheless. It is so interesting to read what some people write. I am pretty detailed in my profile & I think some of the people who choose to contact me either a) don't read it at all or b) read it, but disregard everything I've written. Oh man, I get such a laugh. I wish I'd stumbled upon online dating sites years ago. Totally harmless fun...

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by dalidaisy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Right, terribly unpredictable, but fun nontheless. It is so interesting to read what some people write. I am pretty detailed in my profile & I think some of the people who choose to contact me either a) don't read it at all or b) read it, but disregard everything I've written. Oh man, I get such a laugh. I wish I'd stumbled upon online dating sites years ago. Totally harmless fun...

...or quite depressing.

[dalidaisy]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...or quite depressing.

Or that...





dalidaisy added to this post, 3 minutes and 4 seconds later...

But, it's good to know what's out there. I've been out of the "game" for 7 years. I just thought I'd try it to see what the dating pool looked like nowadays. It's pretty bleak, at least it looks that way to me. I have no hopes of finding anyone suitable to spend my time with.

[Cyrus]

erm... I think "game" implies its meant to be taken with a pinch of salt, and it's meant to be fun and interesting. Plus, you can play seriously.

I actually find people interesting. Sure, there are the dumb asses out there, and you can always classify them so you can recognise and avoid them like plague, and the interesting people, well, learn to get along with them.

I see this as personal improvement more than "trying to get laid/attached"

Personally, my greatest weakness as an INTJ is condescension. If I think a person is not worth the air they breathe, they can pretty much screw off.
But it's a _weakness_... (now I know some INTJs will argue with this.. =) )

We're a minority of the population, though. So dont expect to get along with everyone... but tt shouldn't prevent us from going out to try to meet other people. Other Ns and some S types are actually very refreshing to talk to cause they have taken the time to think through things as well.

PS: Oh yes... the people you meet that you do get along well with will make the effort worthwhile. =) If anything @ all, from an INTJ point of view, see trying to get along with people as a way of becoming more skillful as a human being. (warning: dont over do it... causes reflexive INTJ emergency neural shutdown procedure to kick in)