[Sevs]

Hi there.

I was wondering how many of you like or play the so called "dating game".

Personally i totally hate clubbing and dating and I see no point in it. As clubs are totally fake environments and people try to be better than they actually are.
Also the whole getting to know someone to me is just total BS. Also I am aware that there are loads of "tricks" to make other people fall but it just doesn't seem right.

I met my now ex girlfriend at school and it started out with revising maths together. There was never any need for all this superficial "dating" and feelings just developed genuinly.

One of my biggest fears is that i'll stay alone for the rest of my life from now on as i refuse to play "the game" and i very much doubt to be as lucky as with my last gf again.

I was just wondering how other INTJs see the whole thing.

Regards sev.

[BloozeGit]

One of the few rare times when I had to stay in a club (when they played a periodic impulse function over a broadband noise with randomised frequency spectrum), it actually caused me physiological discomfort, if that's the word to describe it. Basically my senses got numbed to the point where I was just sitting there in a daze and getting my internal organs pounded by sub-bass frequencies. I'm guessing that if anyone sat on the subwoofer they were using, they'd make a mess on it...

Hardly ideal for romantic overtures.

[Lucid]

Originally Posted by BloozeGit To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

One of the few rare times when I had to stay in a club (when they played a periodic impulse function over a broadband noise with randomised frequency spectrum), it actually caused me physiological discomfort, if that's the word to describe it. Basically my senses got numbed to the point where I was just sitting there in a daze and getting my internal organs pounded by sub-bass frequencies. I'm guessing that if anyone sat on the subwoofer they were using, they'd make a mess on it... Hardly ideal for romantic overtures.

Plus you have to shout at someone to be heard. Nothing says romance like,
"HEY WHAT'S YOUR NAME!? DO YOU COME HERE OFTEN?!"
"WHAT!?"

[rwyatt365]

As one that did the "club thing" (albeit years ago), I have to agree in principal on the futility of them as a fake environment. However, I will say that – since the majority of the youthful population (and some not so youthful) view clubbing as a viable mating arena – it is a relevant avenue for those willing to endure the agony of the environment. I tended to treat them as a convenient way to observe the "game" and find out if I could be successful in at it. My findings; yes, I could be successful but at the expense of personal integrity. I decided that I would rather be "me" than to get laid!

After that epiphany I found out that there were some – not many, but some – females that actually appreciated not being aggressively "hit on" (or, at least they pretended to which has been my downfall – I can't effectively tell the honest ones from the posers, so I ended up in bad relationships).

So, the moral of my story is that; a) true love is possible for the INTJ if b) you are patient and c) you can tell when someone is faking it.

[Agogo]

I can't make sense of it. Why would I want to go in a club?

[rwyatt365]

	Originally Posted by Agogo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can't make sense of it. Why would I want to go in a club?

Like Bloozegit says, to get your insides pounded into jelly and ooze from every pore in your body (especially the big ones!).

[Sevs]

To get social contacts or maintain them. I get along quite well with people but it seems that in general unless you don't go out (clubbing) with these people you don't actually get in the position to become proper friends. At least that is the way it seems to me. Although it does seem after you have been out a few times with people and they realize you can be fun you can then be friends with them even if you don't go out clubbing with them anymore.

At least that is my experience.

The other reason for going to a club is basically getting laid. Which works but as mentioned above goes against the whole personal integrity thing.

[Firelie]

I honestly don't see how a meaningful, healthy relationship could ever result from a club environment. Granted, I haven't been to every club ever, but the few I've been in were far too loud, drunken and crowded for anything more than dancing (which seems to lead more to sex and STDs more often than dating).

[Gabrielle]

Clubbing never works for me. I went with my friends a few times, but then I didn't exactly achieve any new friendships because I just hanged out with my friends (basically one of the guys was dancing and we were rolling around laughing at him). Unless you're looking for a quick lay, there isn't much point going there... if you want to dance that much just crank up the volume to your favourite song and dance in your room. Same thing (at least for me).

[Figmentum]

If a girl is dumber than I, she can go to hell. Stupid chicks are a complete turnoff.

[blueback]

	Originally Posted by Sevs To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hi there. One of my biggest fears is that i'll stay alone for the rest of my life from now on as i refuse to play "the game" and i very much doubt to be as lucky as with my last gf again.

Why do you assume that dance clubs are the only place you can play the 'dating game'?

You could go to a bar, though, or a musical venue. Some place with areas that don't reaquire a megaphone or semaphore flags to communicate. The great thing about those areas is that you already have a topic of conversation and if you decide you don't want to talk to that person anymore you can just talk to someone else 3 feet away.

I dunno. I guess you'll either try it out or you won't.

As long as you volunarily withdraw from a game I suppose you can't "lose" although it is a forfeit. When it becomes important to you you will learn what you need to know. I just don't want to see any of you guys compromise your standards and settle because you don't want to put some effort into learning how to be social.

[WavesSootheMe]

	Originally Posted by rwyatt365 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After that epiphany I found out that there were some – not many, but some – females that actually appreciated not being aggressively "hit on"

I completely despise guys that pursue me aggressively. It's overwhelming. I am a girl that goes to clubs and bars and musical venues and the like, but because I enjoy dancing and being with my friends, not because I want to meet anyone. If a guy approaches me at a bar or I feel like a guy is hitting on me, I don't trust his intentions at all. The whole getting to know someone while on one on one dates is awkward to me. It feels so forced and inappropriate. How do you know if you want to date someone before you get to know them? It makes no sense. I much prefer it when genuine feelings for another can develop in a non-date environment, like studying or group activities, which then leads to dating and more often than not a relationship. It seems like people are much more natural that way. All that's come of the "dating game" for me is a string of casual, non-exclusive relationships, which I'm done with at this point. However, as I'm getting older less and less opportunities to meet people the way that I prefer are available. *shrugs* I guess I'm as lost as you, Sevs, and just hoping that patience and knowing myself and what I want will get me there.

[Sevs]

Thanks alot for your responses guys, good to know I'm not the only one out there.

This brings me to another question It's obvious that many girls actually enjoy clubbing for the sake of it (dancing and what not) but are there actually any guys that go to a club for fun and not with the intention to get laid or "meet someone" ?
Just wondering

Part of the reason my ex gf left me was that I was not "fun enough" as she really enjoys clubbing and is a amazing dancer. I can actually understand her but I can't change who I am not even for her.

Ah well just got to keep on looking and hoping that oneday i meet another single intelligent girl that actually likes me...

[blueback]

There's a difference between 'changing who you are' and 'learning something new.' Don't let fear of change keep you from learning from someone who wants to teach you. Just explain to them that you might be uncomfortable for a while and if they don't respect that you can stop seeing them. However, it's hard to justify not learning how to dance, from an 'amazing' dancer, because you define yourself as a guy who doesn't dance and you don't want to risk that definition.

[rwyatt365]

Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There's a difference between 'changing who you are' and 'learning something new.' Don't let fear of change keep you from learning from someone who wants to teach you. Just explain to them that you might be uncomfortable for a while and if they don't respect that you can stop seeing them. However, it's hard to justify not learning how to dance, from an 'amazing' dancer, because you define yourself as a guy who doesn't dance and you don't want to risk that definition.

But there's also a difference between asking someone to "try something new" and forcing something down someone's throat.

Too often people use the "you're afraid to change" argument as a way to intimidate, or coerce a person to conform to another's standards. I'm all for change, and not afraid to try something new, but there is nothing wrong with a person recognizing what is fundamental to their nature and cannot be significantly altered.

For example; I know that I need time to myself in order for me to be effective. Sometimes I just need to get away from other people and be with myself for a while. Now, I also know that is not always conducive to "family life", especially when you're surrounded by "social butterflies". I could insist that all non-work time is "me time" and revel in my alone-ness, but that isn't fair to the family. So, I make a change and set aside some "me time" and some "family time".

The alternative would be for someone in the family to say, "You're just 'afraid of change'. What you have to do is to devote all of your non-work time to the family – it's the best thing to do". If I do that then I will have crumpled under the pressure to conform. Now, the family might be satisfied, but I would be miserable because I need that "me time" that I can't have any more. That would end up being a bad thing for all parties concerned.

All I'm saying is that change is good, forcing change of fundamental behavior is not good. If you do something different because you want to, and it doesn't violate who you are, then go for it. But don't let anyone pressure you into something that you don’t want to do, or you know that you can't sustain in the long run – you're only asking for trouble.

[blueback]

	Originally Posted by rwyatt365 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	All I'm saying is that change is good, forcing change of fundamental behavior is not good. If you do something different because you want to, and it doesn't violate who you are, then go for it. But don't let anyone pressure you into something that you don’t want to do, or you know that you can't sustain in the long run – you're only asking for trouble.

And I'll I'm saying is that not everything is a choice between surrenduring to the pressures of conformity and standing firm against everyone else in the world. Give me independance or give me death!

Come on, learning how to dance isn't conforming to the will of malignant forces. It's just a new skill.

Skills are like hand-tools, you can never have too many of them. Other, lesser Myers-Briggs types might not be able to learn something without being changed by it, but INTJs can.

Of course, I might just be speaking from my experiences. I volunteered for the military, and I like it enough that I'm planning to give it 20-30 years, so obviously I've gotten something out of serving the will of others. I've noticed that most of the people here aren't in the military so you guys probably have a different perspective on doing what others want you to do.

[rwyatt365]

Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And I'll I'm saying is that not everything is a choice between surrenduring to the pressures of conformity and standing firm against everyone else in the world. Give me independance or give me death! Come on, learning how to dance isn't conforming to the will of malignant forces. It's just a new skill. Skills are like hand-tools, you can never have too many of them. Other, lesser Myers-Briggs types might not be able to learn something without being changed by it, but INTJs can. Of course, I might just be speaking from my experiences. I volunteered for the military, and I like it enough that I'm planning to give it 20-30 years, so obviously I've gotten something out of serving the will of others. I've noticed that most of the people here aren't in the military so you guys probably have a different perspective on doing what others want you to do.

You're right! Learning to dance is only submitting to the collective socialization pressures of the decadent amoral masses.
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No, really, I understand. Things like that are just like learning a new skill. It's just that I've been subjected to the "ram it down your throat, if you don't change then you're a p---y" school of persuasion and it's a really sore spot with me.

i respect anyone that joins the military, especially those that do it as a career choise. My sister just retired from the Air Force after 30+ years, she's one tough cookie. I couldn't do it.

[BloozeGit]

Originally Posted by rwyatt365 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[COLOR=black]No, really, I understand. Things like that are just like learning a new skill. It's just that I've been subjected to the "ram it down your throat, if you don't change then you're a p---y" school of persuasion and it's a really sore spot with me.[/COLOR] i respect anyone that joins the military, especially those that do it as a career choise. My sister just retired from the Air Force after 30+ years, she's one tough cookie. I couldn't do it.

Well I was conscripted, that was a flying start to the "ram it down your throat" concept that was to come for the next few years, but that's probably another story altogether...

As for the dancing and all, I don't see it as a bad thing. It's just that whenever there's music that's worth dancing to, I'll probably be too busy nursing a pint, and I can't possibly leave it alone to go dancing can I?
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The fact that I have three left feet is just coincidental. Really.
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[Nomad]

Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

And I'll I'm saying is that not everything is a choice between surrenduring to the pressures of conformity and standing firm against everyone else in the world. Give me independance or give me death! Come on, learning how to dance isn't conforming to the will of malignant forces. It's just a new skill. Skills are like hand-tools, you can never have too many of them. Other, lesser Myers-Briggs types might not be able to learn something without being changed by it, but INTJs can. Of course, I might just be speaking from my experiences. I volunteered for the military, and I like it enough that I'm planning to give it 20-30 years, so obviously I've gotten something out of serving the will of others. I've noticed that most of the people here aren't in the military so you guys probably have a different perspective on doing what others want you to do.

Yup, very useful skill. I learned to line dance in the Army, and can dance freestyle and have a pretty good sense of rythym. No white mans overbite for me. I went years ago to a new years Eve party hosted by a radio station who's chief demographic was 18 to 30 year old females. i was working for the band, the New Morty Show, a swing band. Literally 100 attractive women leaning on the walls aching to dance and NO MEN!.

I thought to myself, "It's not rational to eschew this advantage."

I started lesson January 2.

You want to up your odds, gentlemen? Learn to dance. It allows you to assess potential mates, have fun, get exercise, and you will have an advantage over most guys who can't dance. My information provided to me by my operatives on the other side indicate that you are judged by your ability to dance, with the notion that skill there will translate to other acts of physicality.

Or don't. More for me.

-Nomad

[rwyatt365]

Originally Posted by Nomad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yup, very useful skill. I learned to line dance in the Army, and can dance freestyle and have a pretty good sense of rythym. No white mans overbite for me. I went years ago to a new years Eve party hosted by a radio station who's chief demographic was 18 to 30 year old females. i was working for the band, the New Morty Show, a swing band. Literally 100 attractive women leaning on the walls aching to dance and NO MEN!. I thought to myself, "It's not rational to eschew this advantage." I started lesson January 2. You want to up your odds, gentlemen? Learn to dance. It allows you to assess potential mates, have fun, get exercise, and you will have an advantage over most guys who can't dance. My information provided to me by my operatives on the other side indicate that you are judged by your ability to dance, with the notion that skill there will translate to other acts of physicality. Or don't. More for me. -Nomad

...and me!
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In my college and 20-something days I was a "dancin' fool"! I did all of the ridiculous dances of the 70s and early 80s. Since then I've lost touch with my "dancing roots", but I could do it again if I had to.
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[Warren_Wong]

Originally Posted by Sevs To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hi there. I was wondering how many of you like or play the so called "dating game". Personally i totally hate clubbing and dating and I see no point in it. As clubs are totally fake environments and people try to be better than they actually are. Also the whole getting to know someone to me is just total BS. Also I am aware that there are loads of "tricks" to make other people fall but it just doesn't seem right. I met my now ex girlfriend at school and it started out with revising maths together. There was never any need for all this superficial "dating" and feelings just developed genuinly. One of my biggest fears is that i'll stay alone for the rest of my life from now on as i refuse to play "the game" and i very much doubt to be as lucky as with my last gf again. I was just wondering how other INTJs see the whole thing. Regards sev.

Long term, I think the most important thing is common interests. Dating itself is very artificial in my opinion, because you're essentially making up interests. As soon as those interests fade away, then the relationship would fade. I've been going through the same thing myself for the last two years, but I've finally fallen in love with a girl who I respect and admire.

I think that's the key... you have to naturally be together and respect and admire the other person.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by WavesSootheMe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I completely despise guys that pursue me aggressively. It's overwhelming. I am a girl that goes to clubs and bars and musical venues and the like, but because I enjoy dancing and being with my friends, not because I want to meet anyone. If a guy approaches me at a bar or I feel like a guy is hitting on me, I don't trust his intentions at all. The whole getting to know someone while on one on one dates is awkward to me. It feels so forced and inappropriate. How do you know if you want to date someone before you get to know them? It makes no sense. I much prefer it when genuine feelings for another can develop in a non-date environment, like studying or group activities, which then leads to dating and more often than not a relationship. It seems like people are much more natural that way. All that's come of the "dating game" for me is a string of casual, non-exclusive relationships, which I'm done with at this point. However, as I'm getting older less and less opportunities to meet people the way that I prefer are available. *shrugs* I guess I'm as lost as you, Sevs, and just hoping that patience and knowing myself and what I want will get me there.

The entire purpose of casual dating is to get to know the person to see if you want to remove the casual modifier. You glean what you can from the first 15 minutes or so over drinks or at the bookstore or whatever, and then you do lunch or coffee or whatever, and then you take the great leap of having dinner with that person. Don't like person? Rinse, wash, repeat.

[LSB]

Originally Posted by Sevs To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hi there. I was wondering how many of you like or play the so called "dating game". Personally i totally hate clubbing and dating and I see no point in it. As clubs are totally fake environments and people try to be better than they actually are. Also the whole getting to know someone to me is just total BS. Also I am aware that there are loads of "tricks" to make other people fall but it just doesn't seem right. I met my now ex girlfriend at school and it started out with revising maths together. There was never any need for all this superficial "dating" and feelings just developed genuinly. One of my biggest fears is that i'll stay alone for the rest of my life from now on as i refuse to play "the game" and i very much doubt to be as lucky as with my last gf again. I was just wondering how other INTJs see the whole thing. Regards sev.

I've been struggling with this for my entire short life (I'm still just a kid, but hey), and my solution for a long time was simply to ignore the relational aspect of life until I managed to finish all obligations (school, etc) and actually start my life. However, I don't think simply pushing it aside is a real solution.

I don't work in these kinds of environments ('clubs' etc), and I have no idea how to 'hit on' someone, or whatever. I've come to the conclusion that unless someone initiates a relationship towards me, I'll be alone (not lonely) for the rest of my life. So be it, I have other things to do. It's just not worth the massive struggle when there are other things I can do that I'm good at and which takes much less effort to enjoy.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by LSB To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've been struggling with this for my entire short life (I'm still just a kid, but hey), and my solution for a long time was simply to ignore the relational aspect of life until I managed to finish all obligations (school, etc) and actually start my life. However, I don't think simply pushing it aside is a real solution. I don't work in these kinds of environments ('clubs' etc), and I have no idea how to 'hit on' someone, or whatever. I've come to the conclusion that unless someone initiates a relationship towards me, I'll be alone (not lonely) for the rest of my life. So be it, I have other things to do. It's just not worth the massive struggle when there are other things I can do that I'm good at and which takes much less effort to enjoy.

Bullshit.

Go to a bookstore or museums or coffee house or college or whatever.

"Hi I'm LSB"
"Hi I'm Jane"
"This is an excellent frapuccino"
"Yeah it is I love it"
"Whats ur favorite drink here"
blah blah blah blah it will go fine from here

It may also go
"This is an excellent frapuccino"
says nothing
Rinse, wash repeat.

For a rookie it will be about 15% real interest, 25% will have a friendly but uninterested exchange w/ you, 55% polite disinterest, 5% rude. No way around the rude ones, just rinse wash and repeat. Once you get better you'll learn to read the subtle social cues better and the polite disinterests and rudes will drop to 30% or so.

Its hard and unnatural for us, but its either having a few people not be interested in talking to you, or being single. Its an easy choice really.

[WavesSootheMe]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The entire purpose of casual dating is to get to know the person to see if you want to remove the casual modifier. You glean what you can from the first 15 minutes or so over drinks or at the bookstore or whatever, and then you do lunch or coffee or whatever, and then you take the great leap of having dinner with that person. Don't like person? Rinse, wash, repeat.

Yes, this is the purpose of casual dating versus serious dating, but I don't understand why it's considered dating in the first place. Why put that expectation out there so soon? Fifteen minutes of smalltalk? Kill me now. Fifteen minutes with me in a forced situation like that is useless. I won't be myself. I'll be uncomfortable and likely annoyed that a stranger is cutting into my time. I don't trust their intentions, because such approaches are obviously based solely on outward appearance, and unless the guy is incredibly perceptive, my outward appearance can be misleading. With a good social circle and outside involvement, the same purpose can be furthered in a situation where individuals are much more true to form. I've done it both ways, and at least for me, nothing meaningful has ever come from giving a random stranger a chance to date me from the start. One meaningful relationship did come from meeting a random stranger, but I met him with a friend and he treated me like a friend. The dating didn't come until later. I'm not saying it can't work. I just know myself, the way that I function and what works best for me. I'm glad that you've found a method useful for you, but I wouldn't expect resounding agreement from this crowd.