Police Profiling

**Vagrant** · 10-19-2008, 01:48 AM

What are your opinions on the act of profiling? I know police do it (trust me, I have a "before and after" story).

But do you think it's fair? Is it logical?

I can see that it's logical. You wouldn't want to waste time inspecting those who were obviously not a problem (such as the elderly). It saves a lot of time and energy to simply go after suspicious people.

However, I would beg to say that profiling is not fair, and can often be detrimental. I started skateboarding about 6 months ago. I have been profiled by the police more in the past 6 months than I have been profiled in my entire life. Why? The big hunk of wood I ride around on. Even non-police people try to get on power trips with me saying that I can't do this or that -- I simply throw a bit of legal jargon at them, then they realize that I've dealt with that crap before, and if they continue, I will verbally hand their butt to them. On a silver platter. And I'm really not a source of trouble -- if there's anybody in need of help, I will help them. If an officer needed help, I'd be glad to assist them. I'm not mean or rude in any way. But the simple hunk of wood with trucks and wheels suddenly makes me suspicious, and frankly, it's kind of annoying (not to mention misplaced judgment).

Regardless, what are you opinions on police profiling?

**moon** · 10-19-2008, 02:15 AM


	You wouldn't want to waste time inspecting those who were obviously not a problem (such as the elderly).

I don't agree with this. Random inspecting is actually good for discovering criminals. In that way, they can't feel safe if they look unsuspicious. Take example of airport passenger control, everybody is profiled and checked.


	I have been profiled by the police more in the past 6 months than I have been profiled in my entire life. Why? The big hunk of wood I ride around on.

Police is doing a great job then if they pursue you every time. I would be proud
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(possibility od police's corruption is excluded in past sentence).

So, i don't think profiling is a bad thing. Result of profiling thousand random people and discovering one badass, is enough.

**Vagrant** · 10-19-2008, 02:29 AM

Ah, to clarify. I meant profiling in the sense of paying more attention to certain groups of people while patrolling (as an officer), not so much the random and total profiling done at airports.

**JoeyDude** · 10-19-2008, 05:46 AM

I do agree that it can be detrimental for the police in that they start getting a bad reputation for profiling and sometimes it actually makes otherwise innocent people to start evading the police. I'm on the same boat in that I ride a sport bike. When I'm in my car I barely get any attention from the police but on the bike I even get pulled over for putting the license plate in the wrong place.

And what makes it even more ridiculous is that I've been accident-free for over 12 years. It's not like I'm gonna go 100 in school zones. As much as I respect the police and their job I have to admit that if I'm speeding and I see a cop going the other way I'm running. A vicious cycle is created in that the innocent people feel harrassed and end up running and that makes the police even angrier and give them more attention.

And don't get me started on speed traps, which I think are all about revenue not about safety.

**muguly** · 10-19-2008, 05:52 AM

Profiling is the reason there is such a huge disconnect between the police and certain groups of people. It only hurts what they (the police) are trying to do. You can't tell a criminal by the way they look, speak, or even act. The most proper, well spoken, educated person can be a rapist, murder, thief, and overall bad guy and vice-versa.

**alphawolf** · 10-19-2008, 06:23 AM

Profiling is stereotyping, which is the necessary optical correction for the stupid eyeball to be able to see one-third as good as the intuitive eyeball.

**Krazy P** · 10-19-2008, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Vagrant
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What are your opinions on the act of profiling? I know police do it (trust me, I have a "before and after" story).

But do you think it's fair? Is it logical?

I can see that it's logical. You wouldn't want to waste time inspecting those who were obviously not a problem (such as the elderly). It saves a lot of time and energy to simply go after suspicious people.

However, I would beg to say that profiling is not fair, and can often be detrimental. I started skateboarding about 6 months ago. I have been profiled by the police more in the past 6 months than I have been profiled in my entire life. Why? The big hunk of wood I ride around on. Even non-police people try to get on power trips with me saying that I can't do this or that -- I simply throw a bit of legal jargon at them, then they realize that I've dealt with that crap before, and if they continue, I will verbally hand their butt to them. On a silver platter. And I'm really not a source of trouble -- if there's anybody in need of help, I will help them. If an officer needed help, I'd be glad to assist them. I'm not mean or rude in any way. But the simple hunk of wood with trucks and wheels suddenly makes me suspicious, and frankly, it's kind of annoying (not to mention misplaced judgment).

Regardless, what are you opinions on police profiling?

Police profiling is a bad form of pattern recognition. It is an effort to distinguish a pattern. The problem with it is obvious. It is human nature to try to develop patterns to make life easier.

**JustMel** · 10-19-2008, 09:26 AM

I live in North Mississippi, just south of Memphis, TN. We have a LOT of profiling here. Not so much the kids on skateboards because our mayor, in his one act of decency, actually put in a skate park for the kids with ramps and such that is open until 10 every night of the week. At first the police thought there would be a lot of trouble but it's turned out to not have many issues at all. The older kids don't pick on the little ones--they actually try to help them. The kids co-mingle racially better than the community expected. It's been a good thing.

Our lovely police department profiles A LOT. If they see a white and black in the car together, regardless of gender they will pull them over. If they see a young black male in a nice car they are going to pull him over. I was in the car with my brother in law who is black but also a retired narcotics detective from KC and we were going to the store and we were pulled over. By a black cop--who wanted to know why we were together. I told him seeing as the car was registered to me, the insurance was valid and I had no outstanding warrants and he pulled me over because my taillight was out--which was very doubtful as I'd had my yearly inspection sticker put on the day before and it was obviously working fine he didn't need to know where we were going at 5 pm on a Saturday. He asked to search my car and I told him no. He asked me step out of the car and I refused. Then he decided to run my BILs license and it came back retired cop with a FL PI license and let us go. I called the chief, who I've known since kindergarten, and explained the situation and he made the officer come to my house and apologize.

Profiling is alive and well. I don't believe they should just ignore older people though--what is someone had chosen to look deeper into the guy in Austria who kept his dauther and her children that he fathered locked in a basement for 20 years?

I don't agree with it but I understand some of it. They are busting a lot of mobile meth labs here and they know gangs are running guns from the lower part of MS up through Chicago. They know drugs are running the same route. They just can't catch them.

I don't agree with the idea that they will stop a group of black kids walking down the street at 9 pm but they don't stop a group of white kids walking down the street at the same time.

Profiling leads to hindering not helping the racial overtones of a city/area.

**Vagrant** · 10-19-2008, 12:08 PM

Yeah, I have to agree.

Usually the cops who profile me and my longboarding friends are often after the wrong people. While we're all slightly demented (it's almost a requirement of a skateboarder), we're never a problem. If we see somebody injured or in need of aid, we'll hop up to help them. It's probably the friendliest group I've ever been in, but we're still profiled for the longboards.

**Santana28** · 10-20-2008, 12:17 PM

i work mall security, and yes - "profiling" (if you want to call it that) happens. but it is the result of basic common sense - if a certain group of people tends to cause more problems than another, then you naturally watch similar groups closer. we "profile" gang members. we "profile" panhandlers. etc. it is the officer that neglects to consider all outside considerations, and focus solely on the profile, that becomes a liability.

now we deal with skateboarders every day. kids are not allowed to skateboard on mall property, period. we are supposed to kick them out. no - there are no signs posted about skating *outside* of the mall per se. i would personally not mind kids who aren't causing any problems being allowed to stay, BUT i believe it has more to do with liability from possible injuries if they were to occur on our property than anything else, so i can see it from both angles. so you may call it discrimination - from my side it is "sorry, no skating PERIOD." we see kids carrying their boards around with them - 9 times out of 10 if we watch them they will eventually start skating. no one carries a board without the intention of using it at some point. you may call this profiling - but its just part of the job - you see a potential problem, you observe, and then you deal with it if necessary. does it mean skaters are bad kids? no, of course not. but a lot of them have a chip on their shoulder for us due to being kicked out all the time when they are "doing nothing wrong." when you give attitude - you get attitude. which came first, the chicken or the egg? the rules are set - if you dont follow them you deal with the consequences.

i'm talking from the perspective of private property enforcement, not the police.

i'm sure it sucks being told to get out all the time, and watched constantly - but accidents, injuries, and damage from skateboarding are all real issues and must be dealt with accordingly.

**Vagrant** · 10-20-2008, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Santana28
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i work mall security, and yes - "profiling" (if you want to call it that) happens. but it is the result of basic common sense - if a certain group of people tends to cause more problems than another, then you naturally watch similar groups closer. we "profile" gang members. we "profile" panhandlers. etc. it is the officer that neglects to consider all outside considerations, and focus solely on the profile, that becomes a liability.

now we deal with skateboarders every day. kids are not allowed to skateboard on mall property, period. we are supposed to kick them out. no - there are no signs posted about skating *outside* of the mall per se. i would personally not mind kids who aren't causing any problems being allowed to stay, BUT i believe it has more to do with liability from possible injuries if they were to occur on our property than anything else, so i can see it from both angles. so you may call it discrimination - from my side it is "sorry, no skating PERIOD." we see kids carrying their boards around with them - 9 times out of 10 if we watch them they will eventually start skating. no one carries a board without the intention of using it at some point. you may call this profiling - but its just part of the job - you see a potential problem, you observe, and then you deal with it if necessary. does it mean skaters are bad kids? no, of course not. but a lot of them have a chip on their shoulder for us due to being kicked out all the time when they are "doing nothing wrong." when you give attitude - you get attitude. which came first, the chicken or the egg? the rules are set - if you dont follow them you deal with the consequences.

i'm talking from the perspective of private property enforcement, not the police.

i'm sure it sucks being told to get out all the time, and watched constantly - but accidents, injuries, and damage from skateboarding are all real issues and must be dealt with accordingly.

No, that's perfectly acceptable -- private property owners make their own rules, and private security enforces those rules. I don't skate on privately owned property simply because it's not mine. If signs were posted, it might help on reducing the number of people skating though.

**Santana28** · 10-20-2008, 08:46 PM

	Originally Posted by Vagrant To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, that's perfectly acceptable -- private property owners make their own rules, and private security enforces those rules. I don't skate on privately owned property simply because it's not mine. If signs were posted, it might help on reducing the number of people skating though.

you wouldn't believe how many people automatically assume shopping malls are "public property" since they are open to the general public. i have gotten into more arguments over the concept of "private property" with skater kids than any other argument... its really frustrating that people just can't seem to grasp this very basic concept.

then again... the same would apply to public property as well... so i dont know what to tell you
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**Vagrant** · 10-21-2008, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by Santana28
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you wouldn't believe how many people automatically assume shopping malls are "public property" since they are open to the general public. i have gotten into more arguments over the concept of "private property" with skater kids than any other argument... its really frustrating that people just can't seem to grasp this very basic concept.

then again... the same would apply to public property as well... so i dont know what to tell you
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Yeah, I think the biggest confusion to skateboarders would be that the mall is private property. I know the one in my city is, but I don't know about other malls. Simply telling me that would be enough to persuade me to leave.

10-19-2008, 01:48 AM	#1
Vagrant Core Member [155%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,223	What are your opinions on the act of profiling? I know police do it (trust me, I have a "before and after" story). But do you think it's fair? Is it logical? I can see that it's logical. You wouldn't want to waste time inspecting those who were obviously not a problem (such as the elderly). It saves a lot of time and energy to simply go after suspicious people. However, I would beg to say that profiling is not fair, and can often be detrimental. I started skateboarding about 6 months ago. I have been profiled by the police more in the past 6 months than I have been profiled in my entire life. Why? The big hunk of wood I ride around on. Even non-police people try to get on power trips with me saying that I can't do this or that -- I simply throw a bit of legal jargon at them, then they realize that I've dealt with that crap before, and if they continue, I will verbally hand their butt to them. On a silver platter. And I'm really not a source of trouble -- if there's anybody in need of help, I will help them. If an officer needed help, I'd be glad to assist them. I'm not mean or rude in any way. But the simple hunk of wood with trucks and wheels suddenly makes me suspicious, and frankly, it's kind of annoying (not to mention misplaced judgment). Regardless, what are you opinions on police profiling?
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10-19-2008, 02:29 AM	#3
Vagrant Core Member [155%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,223	Ah, to clarify. I meant profiling in the sense of paying more attention to certain groups of people while patrolling (as an officer), not so much the random and total profiling done at airports.
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10-19-2008, 05:46 AM	#4
JoeyDude Member [05%] MBTI: INTx Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 213	I do agree that it can be detrimental for the police in that they start getting a bad reputation for profiling and sometimes it actually makes otherwise innocent people to start evading the police. I'm on the same boat in that I ride a sport bike. When I'm in my car I barely get any attention from the police but on the bike I even get pulled over for putting the license plate in the wrong place. And what makes it even more ridiculous is that I've been accident-free for over 12 years. It's not like I'm gonna go 100 in school zones. As much as I respect the police and their job I have to admit that if I'm speeding and I see a cop going the other way I'm running. A vicious cycle is created in that the innocent people feel harrassed and end up running and that makes the police even angrier and give them more attention. And don't get me started on speed traps, which I think are all about revenue not about safety.
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10-19-2008, 05:52 AM	#5
muguly Member [16%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 664	Profiling is the reason there is such a huge disconnect between the police and certain groups of people. It only hurts what they (the police) are trying to do. You can't tell a criminal by the way they look, speak, or even act. The most proper, well spoken, educated person can be a rapist, murder, thief, and overall bad guy and vice-versa.
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10-19-2008, 06:23 AM	#6
alphawolf Veteran Member [59%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,361	Profiling is stereotyping, which is the necessary optical correction for the stupid eyeball to be able to see one-third as good as the intuitive eyeball.
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10-19-2008, 09:26 AM	#8
JustMel Core Member [422%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 16,891	I live in North Mississippi, just south of Memphis, TN. We have a LOT of profiling here. Not so much the kids on skateboards because our mayor, in his one act of decency, actually put in a skate park for the kids with ramps and such that is open until 10 every night of the week. At first the police thought there would be a lot of trouble but it's turned out to not have many issues at all. The older kids don't pick on the little ones--they actually try to help them. The kids co-mingle racially better than the community expected. It's been a good thing. Our lovely police department profiles A LOT. If they see a white and black in the car together, regardless of gender they will pull them over. If they see a young black male in a nice car they are going to pull him over. I was in the car with my brother in law who is black but also a retired narcotics detective from KC and we were going to the store and we were pulled over. By a black cop--who wanted to know why we were together. I told him seeing as the car was registered to me, the insurance was valid and I had no outstanding warrants and he pulled me over because my taillight was out--which was very doubtful as I'd had my yearly inspection sticker put on the day before and it was obviously working fine he didn't need to know where we were going at 5 pm on a Saturday. He asked to search my car and I told him no. He asked me step out of the car and I refused. Then he decided to run my BILs license and it came back retired cop with a FL PI license and let us go. I called the chief, who I've known since kindergarten, and explained the situation and he made the officer come to my house and apologize. Profiling is alive and well. I don't believe they should just ignore older people though--what is someone had chosen to look deeper into the guy in Austria who kept his dauther and her children that he fathered locked in a basement for 20 years? I don't agree with it but I understand some of it. They are busting a lot of mobile meth labs here and they know gangs are running guns from the lower part of MS up through Chicago. They know drugs are running the same route. They just can't catch them. I don't agree with the idea that they will stop a group of black kids walking down the street at 9 pm but they don't stop a group of white kids walking down the street at the same time. Profiling leads to hindering not helping the racial overtones of a city/area.
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10-19-2008, 12:08 PM	#9
Vagrant Core Member [155%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,223	Yeah, I have to agree. Usually the cops who profile me and my longboarding friends are often after the wrong people. While we're all slightly demented (it's almost a requirement of a skateboarder), we're never a problem. If we see somebody injured or in need of aid, we'll hop up to help them. It's probably the friendliest group I've ever been in, but we're still profiled for the longboards.
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10-20-2008, 12:17 PM	#10
Santana28 Member [31%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,247	i work mall security, and yes - "profiling" (if you want to call it that) happens. but it is the result of basic common sense - if a certain group of people tends to cause more problems than another, then you naturally watch similar groups closer. we "profile" gang members. we "profile" panhandlers. etc. it is the officer that neglects to consider all outside considerations, and focus solely on the profile, that becomes a liability. now we deal with skateboarders every day. kids are not allowed to skateboard on mall property, period. we are supposed to kick them out. no - there are no signs posted about skating outside of the mall per se. i would personally not mind kids who aren't causing any problems being allowed to stay, BUT i believe it has more to do with liability from possible injuries if they were to occur on our property than anything else, so i can see it from both angles. so you may call it discrimination - from my side it is "sorry, no skating PERIOD." we see kids carrying their boards around with them - 9 times out of 10 if we watch them they will eventually start skating. no one carries a board without the intention of using it at some point. you may call this profiling - but its just part of the job - you see a potential problem, you observe, and then you deal with it if necessary. does it mean skaters are bad kids? no, of course not. but a lot of them have a chip on their shoulder for us due to being kicked out all the time when they are "doing nothing wrong." when you give attitude - you get attitude. which came first, the chicken or the egg? the rules are set - if you dont follow them you deal with the consequences. i'm talking from the perspective of private property enforcement, not the police. i'm sure it sucks being told to get out all the time, and watched constantly - but accidents, injuries, and damage from skateboarding are all real issues and must be dealt with accordingly.
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