[Henry]

Flirting is quite easy for an INTJ:

While smiling, say the meanest thing you can think of. Wink if they show signs of taking offense.

You'll go too far sometimes, but the alternative is emotional nuance, eye movement, and body language - ie setting yourself up for an epic failure.

[Lucid]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Flirting is quite easy for an INTJ: While smiling, say the meanest thing you can think of. Wink if they show signs of taking offense. You'll go too far sometimes, but the alternative is emotional nuance, eye movement, and body language - ie setting yourself up for an epic failure.

Actually... that's about right.
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[karenk]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Flirting is quite easy for an INTJ: While smiling, say the meanest thing you can think of. Wink if they show signs of taking offense. You'll go too far sometimes, but the alternative is emotional nuance, eye movement, and body language - ie setting yourself up for an epic failure.

That's horrible. ha! I was in a relationship with an intj years ago and he told me about times he went too far and the horrified responses he received. Sadly, I was one who wasn't too perturbed.... He said that meant we were a match, which ironically elicited a perturbed response.

[Antares]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Flirting is quite easy for an INTJ: While smiling, say the meanest thing you can think of. Wink if they show signs of taking offense. You'll go too far sometimes, but the alternative is emotional nuance, eye movement, and body language - ie setting yourself up for an epic failure.

Well, that strategy hasn't worked for me so far, but it's the only way I know how to flirt. Sad, aren't I?

[Henry]

	Originally Posted by Antares To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, that strategy hasn't worked for me so far, but it's the only way I know how to flirt. Sad, aren't I?

Nah, you're an INTJ. Its like an ESFP at an economics test: its extremely difficult for the type and probably not too reflective on the abilities or intelligence level of the individual.

	He said that meant we were a match, which ironically elicited a perturbed response.

We can never decide with INFJs whether you complete us or whether we should methodically eradicate you.

[F6M13]

I just recently signed up on here, and i have found this thread to be very amuzing and usefull. I have currently started "studying" a female at a new job i started a couple of months ago.

It is more than obvious that she likes me, given the constant staring and smirks, as well as the fact that she perks up when i walk through her office. She is absolutely heavenly to look at, from my point of view anyways, and i look forward to going to work the next day to see her again. That has never happened before.

I had always dismissed these flirting games as trivial, and always thought the other party was just using me as the brunt of a joke. But i must say that these interactions have been very enticing and fun between her and i, and i have used some of the information here to observe her body language and how she acts around me. I tend to have developed a big "i don't give a F" attitude over the last several years, which has led me to be more straight forward to the point of shocking some people with the things i say. I actually initiate conversation with her half the time, to which she responds to very nicely, and it tends to build up my self esteem and confidence.

Unfortunately, she is involved with someone which is something i would never overstep, and the fact that the intj in me doesn't go about getting the girl like most pig headed guys would, boyfriend or not.

I believe she just likes me, but that is it. I find her attractive and believe it or not, i think she finds me attractive. So this little "game" will continue for now, and i am hoping that as i work there longer and we get to know each other better, that we can be good friends down the road. Although it will be somewhat sad to see this game fade over time, which it will.

[blueback]

If they arnen't married it just means they settled for the loser they're with because you weren't around.

Wait, do you want to date her? Your post is a bit vague on that point. If you do, then start working on getting her. If you don't, then. . .why not?

[ame]

"Flirting - Tips Please!"
Have you tried flashing? The average moron likes that kind of thing.
You could settle for a religious bloke then you can act like a moron and be successful.
Either way, same result. No?

[Sinequanon]

	Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If they arnen't married it just means they settled for the loser they're with because you weren't around. Wait, do you want to date her? Your post is a bit vague on that point. If you do, then start working on getting her. If you don't, then. . .why not?

I agree. That and, if you're reading the situation wrong, she'll let you know and you'll just move on. But if she's not really happy with her current situation, your asking may make her realize that.

Doesn't seem immoral to me to go after someone with a boyfriend, really. Women are capable of making the decision to stay with the boyfriend too, y'know
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[Josephine1012]

Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I agree. That and, if you're reading the situation wrong, she'll let you know and you'll just move on. But if she's not really happy with her current situation, your asking may make her realize that. Doesn't seem immoral to me to go after someone with a boyfriend, really. Women are capable of making the decision to stay with the boyfriend too, y'know To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

haha, big surprise. i agree with you as usual
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[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Doesn't seem immoral to me to go after someone with a boyfriend, really. Women are capable of making the decision to stay with the boyfriend too, y'know To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe this is more of a reflection on my own perceptions and opinions than anything else, but if she's unhappy with the guy, why would she bother staying with him? Setting the morality issue aside for a second, it seems like a bad habit for her to have, as far as the non-boyfriend would be concerned. Either she's un-self-aware enough to not know that she's unhappy, which implies a certain type of complacent dumbness, or she's willing to jump ship as soon as a "better" guy comes along, and there is no shortage of people "better" than you.

[Autoptic]

Does that include marriage, you two?

[Sinequanon]

Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe this is more of a reflection on my own perceptions and opinions than anything else, but if she's unhappy with the guy, why would she bother staying with him? Setting the morality issue aside for a second, it seems like a bad habit for her to have, as far as the non-boyfriend would be concerned. Either she's un-self-aware enough to not know that she's unhappy, which implies a certain type of complacent dumbness, or she's willing to jump ship as soon as a "better" guy comes along, and there is no shortage of people "better" than you.

The decision to leave a relationship when it's turned bad is an entirely rational one, but the emotions that surround a relationship are entirely irrational most of the time. People stay with the wrong people for all sorts of reasons. I was just talking with someone last night about people who feel like they have to go out every night - some people feel like they have to be in a relationship, even if it's not a particularly healthy one. It could also be the case that it's not a particularly serious one. I know that, personally, I view any commitment as a very weighty decision that's not made lightly, but there are others who swing from boyfriend to boyfriend like they were playing Pitfall.

Now, none of this necessarily speaks to whether or not that is the type of person you (the non-specific "you") want to be with, but there are plenty of reasons someone might be in a relationship that they could be persuaded to leave. My only real concern is to not confuse the situation where, for instance, a couple doesn't really believe in marriage, yet they have a bond as strong as most marriages. Then, despite having a "boyfriend" only, I doubt that there is a "better" person for her.

You raise an interesting point but I wonder what you mean by "better". Better socially (in terms of status) or better in making her feel comfortable, good about herself and happy? In the latter case, there may actually not always be someone "better" out there than you (take heart).

Also if this chica is so happy with her current situation, why's she flirting with our INTJ here? Something fishy's going on. Either he's misreading, and she's a natural flirt (and who needs that) or she's sending him signals and is waiting for him to make a move.

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Does that include marriage, you two?

I personally don't think it's right to interfere in a marriage.

[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	People stay with the wrong people for all sorts of reasons. I was just talking with someone last night about people who feel like they have to go out every night - some people feel like they have to be in a relationship, even if it's not a particularly healthy one.

Right, but that's what I'm asking about. Take it as a more extreme example: Lots of men beat up their girlfriends for irrational reasons. Do you really want to get involved with someone like that? I'm not really equating the two behaviors, except in that I see them both as bad signs. The big difference is that I think any reasonable person would agree that violence is a bad sign, whereas there's probably some wiggle room on serial dating just to avoid loneliness.

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You raise an interesting point but I wonder what you mean by "better". Better socially (in terms of status) or better in making her feel comfortable, good about herself and happy? In the latter case, there may actually not always be someone "better" out there than you (take heart).

Anything. That's why I used quotation marks. There'll always be someone better-looking than you. There's always going to be someone who's funnier or more charming or richer or a better cook or better in bed.

It starts getting a little hazier when you get into things like a person's ability to understand you. Are we talking about that ability right now, or in a potential-based sense? There might be a stranger who, if given enough time and opportunity, could understand you as well or better than your current significant other does, but if that person is a stranger, than obviously he or she can't understand you right now.

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also if this chica is so happy with her current situation, why's she flirting with our INTJ here? Something fishy's going on. Either he's misreading, and she's a natural flirt (and who needs that) or she's sending him signals and is waiting for him to make a move.

Two more bad signals to my eyes (especially the latter). That's why I originally said that my comments might say more about me than any generalized situation that fits this pattern.

[Sinequanon]

Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Right, but that's what I'm asking about. Take it as a more extreme example: Lots of men beat up their girlfriends for irrational reasons. Do you really want to get involved with someone like that? I'm not really equating the two behaviors, except in that I see them both as bad signs. The big difference is that I think any reasonable person would agree that violence is a bad sign, whereas there's probably some wiggle room on serial dating just to avoid loneliness.

I see where you're going with this (although it's kind of like using a steel beam to drive in a nail...), but there's nothing inherently wrong with serial dating. If that person is driven to constant abusive relationships, then yeah. My sister (ESTP) dated a lot in high school, but never got particularly serious until she met her current boyfriend (xNFJ, I think), who "got her". But she had to be open to meeting someone who could "get her", which isn't necessarily going to happen outside of a relationship, if that person is a serial dater.

Anything. That's why I used quotation marks. There'll always be someone better-looking than you. There's always going to be someone who's funnier or more charming or richer or a better cook or better in bed. It starts getting a little hazier when you get into things like a person's ability to understand you. Are we talking about that ability right now, or in a potential-based sense? There might be a stranger who, if given enough time and opportunity, could understand you as well or better than your current significant other does, but if that person is a stranger, than obviously he or she can't understand you right now. Two more bad signals to my eyes (especially the latter). That's why I originally said that my comments might say more about me than any generalized situation that fits this pattern.

With respect to the first thing, of course that's true. Which is why a relationship founded on whether your SO has the most money or is the prettiest person you can get is not one I'd consider strong or worthwhile, personally. A relationship should be forged by mutual respect, comfort, understanding and trust. Those aren't things that just magically manifest themselves, and are a lot more solid "betters" than whether you've got the shiniest Benz.

Now, with someone who is more inclined to flirt for the fun of it, or is more inclined to date serially, well, as an INTJ I wouldn't be comfortable with that inside of my own relationship without a lot of overt expression of commitment to the relationship. But again, that's more a question for the INTJ to answer, whether or not he wants to get involved with someone like that, than any sort of comment on the other person's inherent value. In my limited experience, apparently ENFP females can seem quite flirty without even trying sometimes, and a lot of INTJs have expressed a lot of affection/affinity for that personality type here.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also if this chica is so happy with her current situation, why's she flirting with our INTJ here? Something fishy's going on. Either he's misreading, and she's a natural flirt (and who needs that) or she's sending him signals and is waiting for him to make a move.

I so could... Couldn't I?
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	I personally don't think it's right to interfere in a marriage.

How conveniently nonsensical that is, no respect for the other guy or the relationship. That's one real human and an intimate abstract ignored, but the social custom is respected.

"Morality is the herd-instinct in the individual." Friedrich Nietzsche

[Sinequanon]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How conveniently nonsensical that is, no respect for the other guy or the relationship. That's one real human and an intimate abstract ignored, but the social custom is respected. "Morality is the herd-instinct in the individual." Friedrich Nietzsche

Well, values (Fi) don't have to make sense. If one is going to draw a line, it needs to be drawn somewhere. I figure a marriage is a line I would mutually like for others to respect, and so I draw it there.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, values (Fi) don't have to make sense.

Great, someone finally gets that, and he's on the side that I might end up assaulting one day. Now, I'm going to play some Nickleback.
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[Sinequanon]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Great, someone finally gets that, and he's on the side that I might end up assaulting one day. Now, I'm going to play some Nickleback. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Regarding the bolded part: que?

Regarding Nickelback, there's nothing in heaven or on earth that justifies playing Nickelback.

[Autoptic]

I have no use for a marriage contract and am quite territorial. Throw in how horribly my luck with women is, the word thus far being nonexistent, I might end up doing something stupid one day.

"I'll watch you leave here limping" Next Contestant

Edit:Losing words is bad, especially when they're negations.
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[ElstonGunn]

Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I see where you're going with this (although it's kind of like using a steel beam to drive in a nail...), but there's nothing inherently wrong with serial dating. [...] Now, with someone who is more inclined to flirt for the fun of it, or is more inclined to date serially, well, as an INTJ I wouldn't be comfortable with that inside of my own relationship without a lot of overt expression of commitment to the relationship.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I wouldn't assert that it's objectively wrong on any kind of moral level to flirt or date for the alleged "fun" of it, but it absolutely is wrong in regard my own subjective, personal-preference-based level. If your goal is to attract me (which of course brings up a whole new set of weird issues that you probably have
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), it's a really bad thing to do. But that's my weird preference, not a universal law.

I'm also assuming that this attitude, or some adaptation or variant of it, is present in a statistically significant portion of the population, particularly among INTJs.

[Sinequanon]

Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I wouldn't assert that it's objectively wrong on any kind of moral level to flirt or date for the alleged "fun" of it, but it absolutely is wrong in regard my own subjective, personal-preference-based level. If your goal is to attract me (which of course brings up a whole new set of weird issues that you probably have To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ), it's a really bad thing to do. But that's my weird preference, not a universal law. I'm also assuming that this attitude, or some adaptation or variant of it, is present in a statistically significant portion of the population, particularly among INTJs.

I'm sure you're right, but I think there's also a tendency for natural charisma to be viewed as flirtatious when a female expresses it. Some women also have a lot of sexual "energy" or attractiveness, such that they can't not be flirting if they're going to be themselves. The drive for an explicit affirmation of the importance to the relationship in that case is OUR problem, though, not theirs, an expression of our own insecurity. I am maybe not getting the sense that you're putting the onus on us from your statements.

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have no use for a marriage contract and am quite territorial. Throw in how horribly my luck with women is, the word thus far being nonexistent, I might end up doing something stupid one day.

I find a relationship invokes a lot of emotions and (probably culturally influenced) thoughts that I never thought I would have. In the abstract, I really honestly have very little interest in being married. I do want/crave a strong, monogamous relationship but the idea of tying that relationship to the system isn't particularly appealing. In my last serious relationship, I really honestly caught myself looking at engagement rings online, wondering what the fuck I was doing.

Which, by the way, is why attempting to analyze this stuff in the abstract is a bit inadequate. Some things just have to be experienced. You may be territorial in the abstract, but you may realize that a.) You completely trust her and b.) continued territorialism will do nothing but harm the relationship, which should mean more than your abstract ideal (primarily because one is real) at the end of the day. A lot of this talk is like us talking about what cells must look like but without any microscopes. Experiences matter, too.

[Autoptic]

Her actively flirting isn't her problem, but the guy feeling like shit about it is his?

[Sinequanon]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Her actively flirting isn't her problem, but the guy feeling like shit about it is his?

The question is "Is it flirting?" or is it her natural expressiveness? Is it what attracted you to her in the first place? Do you trust that she's not being unfaithful? Those are things you are bringing to the relationship, not her. If she's not being unfaithful and is being herself, and is acting in the way you originally noticed her for, then how is she doing something wrong?

[F6M13]

	Originally Posted by Sinequanon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also if this chica is so happy with her current situation, why's she flirting with our INTJ here? Something fishy's going on. Either he's misreading, and she's a natural flirt (and who needs that) or she's sending him signals and is waiting for him to make a move.

I have been somewhat of an investigator in this situation. From what i have come across, she has been with her current bf since they were high school sweethearts, her one and only if you will. They now live together, she is 24. They have no future plans to get married, nor does he intend of asking her anytime soon.

My analysis of this situation regarding her is one of boredom, and i happen to be the new "hottest" thing in town, locked away with her and 6 other co-workers for 8+ hours a day. I can see how this would happen and it is entertaining to be involved in and study. I want to see how things progress and where they might lead, although i will not cross the boundaries by dating co-workers, be they single or not. There are too many things that can go wrong and i don't want any drama in my life.

This has made my new job very different and enticing, something i wasn't expecting, but i am only there to make a paycheck, and i will not let that be put in jeopardy by anyone.

But damn, she really is beautiful, which always makes me feel like it's just a joke. That's the intj side of me talking.