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Enneagram: Can 5w4 succeed in life? None
Old 12-21-2012, 10:52 PM   #1
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And success here mean financial independence and being well-known. Well?
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:51 AM   #2
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MBTI isn't about what you can do, it's what you do with it.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:25 AM   #3
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You can achieve anything you set your mind to.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:11 AM   #4
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5s lack the confidence to act.

Success = Drive.

What people desire depends on who it is. Achieving their desires is success. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. 5w4 may have different wants than others on the Enneagram (statistically). However, not matter what someone wants to achieve in life, we all have our weaknesses and strengths. To gain it, never give up.

5s lack the confidence to act so this is where your OBSTACLE will be. Also, 5w4 are rich in their heads. They get all their great ideas from there. Entrepreneur, problem solving, figuring out how to achieve their goals is a great asset. However, staying in your head makes it harder to socialize.

Making money or become well known both require one thing: connectedness to people. People pay for your idea, product or service. Or people simply know you on a massive scale.

5w4 can and WILL be successful if his focus and drive is on people skills and putting his ideas into motion. And never giving up on that. That is it. Anyone can do this.

Figure out your specific weakness even within the general idea of what I just mentioned could be 5w4's weakness, and improve. For example one 5w4 may have trouble with eye contact and another may have trouble with smiling.

Be positive always, no matter where you are in life, because you will ALWAYS have room for improvement and you should ALWAYS enjoy the path to success (both the ups and the downs).
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:32 AM   #5
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  Originally Posted by Bonafide
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MBTI isn't about what you can do, it's what you do with it.

Agree, but I think there are some limits between each type. Example: Type 5 will find it hard to do something immediately without thinking.

  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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You can achieve anything you set your mind to.

Really? Can you lift a 1000kg weigh for an hour by setting your mind to do it?

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Old 12-22-2012, 10:36 AM   #6
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  Originally Posted by Acewolf
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Really? Can you lift a 1000kg weigh for an hour by setting your mind to do it?


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Next.

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Old 12-22-2012, 11:16 AM   #7
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  Originally Posted by Acewolf
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Agree, but I think there are some limits between each type. Example: Type 5 will find it hard to do something immediately without thinking.

The strength of type 5 is being able to master just about any topic/subject/skill. I'm talking true mastery, here, not just familiarity or "good enough" to get the job done.

The path to success is finding a set of skills to master that you can sell to employers (or clients if self-employed). My Dad went and invented something that he could sell online. A acquaintance of mine from college patented some of the touchscreen technology used on smartphones. I've mastered the art of designing enterprise-level software applications.

The main pitfall 5s need to avoid is the tendency to spend their valuable time mastering the useless, e.g., playing D&D or video games. (Not that it's bad or wrong - I've done both - but it gets in the way if you haven't mastered something useful, yet.)

 
Really? Can you lift a 1000kg weigh for an hour by setting your mind to do it?

  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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Absolutely yes. @Acewolf, if you're really an INTJ, you know that there are always several paths to achieve a goal. The real trick is determining the correct goal, that is the goal you really want to achieve, not merely the goal you have in mind at the moment. If something seems impossible, ask yourself, "Am I aiming at the wrong goal?"

As Freeburgh demonstrates, if the real goal is to lift 1000 kg for an hour, it's totally doable. But it's easy to make the goal unachievable if you include additional unnecessary constraints, such as "bench press 1000 kg".

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Old 12-22-2012, 10:17 PM   #8
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Well, yes. Look at Kafka. Alright, I guess he was more famous in death.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:33 AM   #9
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  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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.

Next.

Oh, sorry, let try 100000000kg.

  Originally Posted by jndiii
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Absolutely yes. @Acewolf, if you're really an INTJ, you know that there are always several paths to achieve a goal. The real trick is determining the correct goal, that is the goal you really want to achieve, not merely the goal you have in mind at the moment. If something seems impossible, ask yourself, "Am I aiming at the wrong goal?"

  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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Success = Drive.

You are right. I have big financial difficulty (and other difficulties) right now; I am homeless person and have no one to count on. I often fell things I am doing can't help me out of this situation, think that I should stop doing those and find ways to make more money. I so depressed now; I am seeing myself doing some bad things that I had never done before. I don't know what is my real goal anymore, it changes almost day by day.

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Old 12-25-2012, 01:31 AM   #10
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  Originally Posted by Acewolf
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Oh, sorry, let try 100000000kg.




You are right. I have big financial difficulty (and other difficulties) right now; I am homeless person and have no one to count on. I often fell things I am doing can't help me out of this situation, think that I should stop doing those and find ways to make more money. I so depressed now; I am seeing myself doing some bad things that I had never done before. I don't know what is my real goal anymore, it changes almost day by day.

Success is not in favor of honest. Success is a feeling. Get in touch with your feelings ( they are less developed in us INTJs). So the success only feels small while our ideas are big.

But our logic leads us to the drive for success. You just have to trust your intuition. And that's easy for us, because it's the most logical choice.

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Old 12-25-2012, 01:48 AM   #11
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I can think of no reason that one's enneagram would prohibit or encourage success in life.
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Old 12-25-2012, 01:51 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by Othesemo
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I can think of no reason that one's enneagram would prohibit or encourage success in life.

E3: The Achiever? "The Success-Oriented, Pragmatic Type"?

Seems like one good reason at least.

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Old 12-25-2012, 01:57 AM   #13
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  Originally Posted by davai
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E3: The Achiever? "The Success-Oriented, Pragmatic Type"?

Seems like one good reason at least.

When you walk down the street, I'm guessing that you're going to see a lot more 3s than successful people.

Maybe 'encourage' was a poor choice of words.

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Old 12-25-2012, 02:04 AM   #14
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Why wouldn't a 5 do well in life? You already have a greater tendency to be in more technical fields like engineering and science that tend to pay pretty well. Being paid well and innovating science (and possibly things like medical treatment) would allow you to meet your criteria.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:36 PM   #15
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  Originally Posted by Acewolf
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Oh, sorry, let try 100000000kg.




You are right. I have big financial difficulty (and other difficulties) right now; I am homeless person and have no one to count on. I often fell things I am doing can't help me out of this situation, think that I should stop doing those and find ways to make more money. I so depressed now; I am seeing myself doing some bad things that I had never done before. I don't know what is my real goal anymore, it changes almost day by day.

You asked if a 5 could succeeed. We answered. You disagreed.

Then you add 2 more data points:
1. homelessness
2. ESL or poor education

I choose ESL, as your commas are placed correctly, but your spelling reveals common internal translation errors.

I am curious how homelessness works for someone on the Internet. The homeless people I have interacted with did not have the wherewithall to conduct a decent conversation, let alone pay for Internet access and type with much lucidity or meaning.

Let alone take an ENEAGRAM (sp) test and understand its result and seek to question their likelihood for success based on that result.

I may be just supremely naive but without significant contribution of data from you I no longer treat this as a serious question, and salute your ability to suck me in.

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Old 12-26-2012, 09:12 PM   #16
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  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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You asked if a 5 could succeeed. We answered. You disagreed.

Then you add 2 more data points:
1. homelessness
2. ESL or poor education

I choose ESL, as your commas are placed correctly, but your spelling reveals common internal translation errors.

I am curious how homelessness works for someone on the Internet. The homeless people I have interacted with did not have the wherewithall to conduct a decent conversation, let alone pay for Internet access and type with much lucidity or meaning.

Let alone take an ENEAGRAM (sp) test and understand its result and seek to question their likelihood for success based on that result.

I may be just supremely naive but without significant contribution of data from you I no longer treat this as a serious question, and salute your ability to suck me in.

If I were you, I'd owe it much to being naive. But I would call it ignorance. Seems you have only one mindset and cannot see others' nor can you see how the world works.

Yeah everything else you said actually didn't make any logical sense, so I refrain from replying to your stupidity, but I give you credit for making me believe you're an INTJ and for sucking me into your narrow-minded world.

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Old 12-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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If I were you, I'd owe it much to being naive. But I would call it ignorance. Seems you have only one mindset and cannot see others' nor can you see how the world works.

Yeah everything else you said actually didn't make any logical sense, so I refrain from replying to your stupidity, but I give you credit for making me believe you're an INTJ and for sucking me into your narrow-minded world.

What you wrote doesn't make much sense to me, either. So we're even Stevens there, buddy. "I'd owe it much to being naive", for example.

Anyone else not understanding what I wrote?

OP is posting about his ENNEAGRAM test result on an INTJ forum, and claiming he's homeless. I am thinking if you're homeless, worrying about your ENNEAGRAM test result is going to be waaaaay down the list of concerns.

You seem to disagree. Or feel this is a narrow-minded point of view.

Fine. So explain to me why homeless guy here is expressing his test result as a primary concern in his life. On the Internet.

And show me an INTJ who cares about being well-known as a measure of "success" and I'll show you 100 who don't.

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Old 12-27-2012, 03:08 AM   #18
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eL - oH - eL

---------- Post added 12-27-2012 at 03:46 AM ----------

OK, yes I disagree. This is why.

I've been homeless. I know the feeling. It makes you wonder about yourself, how you got so low, you don't exactly choose to be, it just happens, and makes your mind wonder, only for a little while, then you just kind of give up and blend in with it, but searching for yourself is important in the beginning, because if you don't, don't find yourself...

You won't find your way out...

Also, this is not fencing. It's not you get him, I get you back. Your logic was so full of irrationality, it's like you reasoned out what could go on in someone's mind without logically assessing the emotional and sane state of a human just because of your lack of knowledge on what it actually means to be homeless.

Again, are you an INTJ or an ESFJ who loves to watch a lot of movies...?
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:21 AM   #19
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Perhaps the idea that "any man can be king" if flawed. We have all met people that seem to be poor at everything, such men will never be king. What I see is a litany. If you chant "I'm a winner" enough times, you fool yourself, start acting the role and actually become a winner. But can you sustain it under the existential probes of your rivals?

 
Achieving their desires is success.

Another dollar, another vagina, in the end it fails to satisfy. Stability can not be achieved by sating the desires, one must conquer desire itself. What gives rise to these desires? Personality development flaws that the sufferer is attempting to rectify. The man who seeks wealth to the exclusion of all else is a flawed personality. You only get to live once. It is not a dress rehearsal for your true life, which will happen when you are wealthy.

To turn yourself into this ruthless tycoon is certainly possible. It's also possible you will get trapped in the role and forget yourself.

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Old 12-27-2012, 04:47 AM   #20
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  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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OK, yes I disagree. This is why.

I've been homeless. I know the feeling. It makes you wonder about yourself, how you got so low, you don't exactly choose to be, it just happens, and makes your mind wonder, only for a little while, then you just kind of give up and blend in with it, but searching for yourself is important in the beginning, because if you don't, don't find yourself...

You won't find your way out...

Sounds similar to the way I felt when I was suicidal.

  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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Also, this is not fencing. It's not you get him, I get you back. Your logic was so full of irrationality, it's like you reasoned out what could go on in someone's mind without logically assessing the emotional and sane state of a human just because of your lack of knowledge on what it actually means to be homeless.

I'd welcome you to expand on the "full of irrationality" in my post. Unpack it, by all means. Even one example. You've wasted more words on denigrating my post than it would have taken to explain your dislike for it, so what's one more?

Out of curiosity, which personality tests did you do as a homeless person to get yourself going again? How often does this subject raise its head in your life in general discussion? If rarely, are you sure you're not projecting irrationality onto my post / person out of the emotional memory / trauma of your own homeless experiences? You raised fencing, not me.

Is it simply possible that my experience with homeless people differs from yours? I have interacted with homeless people, and that significantly impacts on my understanding of their plight, but they certainly weren't on the Internet, doing personality tests. They had far more pressing needs to deal with, like where they will be staying that night and what they are going to eat for their next meal.

  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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Again, are you an INTJ or an ESFJ who loves to watch a lot of movies...?

Is this the acceptable way of questioning someone's type? I'll wait to see if posts are deleted or edited, but good thing to learn if it is.

You'll have to forgive me for not thinking the same way as you. I will ask your permission from now on before I post, and make sure the content and delivery is aligned with your INTJ template. Or not.

At least you paid me the courtesy of not asking if I was an ESTP. Heaven forbid.

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:17 AM   #21
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You seem to think types have some kind of special way of questioning... while you were questioning the behavior of a homeless guy.

Honestly, if you were offended by what I wrote, maybe you should think about what you write about other people.

And no... I'm not going to waste my time on your irrationality when I can be driven and focused on delivering a good message here.

Don't judge a person by his label. Think outside the box.

- Just another friendly INTJ/ENTJ (with Asperger's)
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Old 12-27-2012, 06:49 AM   #22
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  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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You seem to think types have some kind of special way of questioning... while you were questioning the behavior of a homeless guy.

brrrt. You clearly do not understand what I think. Just like other threads I read here where some INTJs are trying to tell INTJ OPs they are wrong in their methods, types do not guarantee understanding - even when the types are the same. I can accept that. Doesn't mean I am not going to express surprise when someone is so different to my own self-understanding, eg: that they seek external validation and financial gain to feel they have achieved "success" in life. It could not be further from my own motivations and understanding of MBTI type INTJ.

Look forward to the response from the homeless guy.

Here's a clue for OP: the strongest opponent you will ever face is yourself.

---------- Post added 12-27-2012 at 11:05 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by Acewolf
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And success here mean financial independence and being well-known. Well?

Curious why you want to know if a 5w4 can succeed in life?

  Originally Posted by Acewolf
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You are most likely a type 3.

Taking wings into account, you seem to be a 3w4.

Type 3 - 12.7
Type 5 - 10.3
Type 4 - 9.7
Type 7 - 9
Type 9 - 8.7
Type 8 - 7.7
Type 2 - 7

Wing 3w4 - 17.6
Wing 3w2 - 16.2

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Old 12-27-2012, 12:51 PM   #23
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  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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brrrt. You clearly do not understand what I think. Just like other threads I read here where some INTJs are trying to tell INTJ OPs they are wrong in their methods, types do not guarantee understanding - even when the types are the same. I can accept that.

This is way beyond me just understanding your side, little INTJ. Not only do I understand what you think, but you clearly don't understand what I think. So try your best to get the hint below...

  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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Doesn't mean I am not going to express surprise when someone is so different to my own self-understanding, eg: that they seek external validation and financial gain to feel they have achieved "success" in life. It could not be further from my own motivations and understanding of MBTI type INTJ.

You are not just expressing surprise. You are illustrating your lack of knowledge on what it's like to be homeless, specifically the emotional baggage carried getting to that point. Also, it is very much logical to ask what he's asking. He's wondering what others think about his type in relation to success. Being surprised at that is not a logical method. It's not exactly INTJ. It's called immaturity.

I recommend you read the following, before you throw your quick-thinking inaccuracies around this forum:
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Read and learn, and perhaps your surprise will turn into a, "Oh, I don't have to be so surprised because I did some research all by myself." And then you won't ask such low-quality questions.

You are right about two things: 1) You WERE being naive and 2) types don't necessarily understand the same types. Dig deeper, friend.

  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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Curious why you want to know if a 5w4 can succeed in life?

Now you're talking. This is a valid question.

  Originally Posted by Freeburgh
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Here's a clue for OP: the strongest opponent you will ever face is yourself.

This is true. It's good advice too.

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Old 12-27-2012, 05:31 PM   #24
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  Originally Posted by aworldapart
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Now you're talking. This is a valid question.

Even when the person asking about a thing is not the thing being asked about? Perhaps he seeks information for another?

The condescension in the tone of your post is exquisite, btw. You reflect my fatal flaw perfectly. Congrats.

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Old 12-27-2012, 08:22 PM   #25
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Tim Burton, and Jean-Paul Sartre are the first two that come to mind. So can they? Of course. But are they as likely to do so as the average person? That remains up for debate. My theory would be that 5w4's are much less likely than average to acheive typical success (6-figure salary, white picket fence, etc.). However, it seems they would have an advantage in their originality, so they would likely be overrepresented in those lucky original thinkers who achieve true fame and fortune.
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