[Autoptic]

Popular science is political. "Leading" scientists are just the popular ones. Most of these people you don't want in control of anything particularly affecting and that forgets that their personal biases didn't suddenly vanish in a puff of logic especially since logic can't define good or any science for that matter.


"Economics is a theoretical science and as such abstains from any judgement of value. It is not its task to tell people what ends they should aim at. It is a science of the means to be applied for attainment of ends chosen, not, to be sure, a science of the choosing of ends. Ultimate decisions, the valuations and the choosing of ends, are beyond the scope of any science. Science never tells a man how he should act; it merely shows how a man must act if he wants to attain definite ends." Ludwig Von Mises

[Skatt]

I actually don't see any reason why both cannot exist together along with democracy and even a bit of republic still in there. I would elaborate, but it's time for dinner. I'll try to get back to the thought later on.

[Chrysalis]

	Originally Posted by Skatt To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I actually don't see any reason why both cannot exist together along with democracy and even a bit of republic still in there. I would elaborate, but it's time for dinner. I'll try to get back to the thought later on.

Yes, that's a very good point. I don't really think it can be applied to Libertarianism though. Libertarianism is in my opinion irrational, because it is based much too strongly on ideology and flawed assumptions instead of reason of thought.

I think our current democratic system could benefit a lot from implementing some technocratic and meritocratic elements. Especially in the recruitment of civil servants, government officials and top level politicians.

Changing the complete system over night has been done a myriad times through history and it is not very smart in most cases. Almost all of these experiments have gone wrong. Only if a society or civilization improves certain aspects of its overall structure carefully and continually real progress can happen.

So improving Democracy towards a more rational course is the option of choice.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Chrysalis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Only if a society or civilization improves certain aspects of its overall structure carefully and continually real progress can happen.

'Progress toward what? 'Whose end?

[hullolife]

lol. when will PEOPLE understand that PEOPLE are just PEOPLE.
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heh heh heh

[OrrDavey]

Libertarian - I think people know the best course of action for themselves. I do not think they need someone living thousands of miles away to tell them how to live.

[Chrysalis]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Whose end?

What are you trying to imply?

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Chrysalis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What are you trying to imply?

Society has no ends. A person has personal ends. It may or may not be shared by others. Greater number only give the right of way by might. This is the basis for libertarianism that in the end on the person has ends.

[MaleVolentworld]

I have no idea what a Technocracy is, I've never heard of the term before. But I imagine that it is a political system whereby the government is run by computers.

I'm not one of them, or a Libertarian.

[Franklin71]

	Originally Posted by Chrysalis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My impression from other threads is that many INTJs will show a tendency to advocate one of these 2 system.

OK, I'm a libertarian, but this topic has been going for a while, so you've probably gotten a lot of pro and con answers already. So, instead I'll answer another question: Why do so many INTJs seem to be either libertarians or technocrats? For me, this is easy. Being a technocrat comes naturally to an INTJ. We believe in logic, reason, and the ability to fix things. A libertarian INTJ probably has all of the same instincts but is also dubious about the ability of centralized authorities to fix things. Mostly, it's a difference between looking at the world as an engineering problem (technocrat) or looking at the world as a biological system full of unpredictable feedback loops that can come back to bite you (libertarian).

[pocohauntus]

Being a technocrat doesn't come easily to me because being an INTJ isn't natural for me. I'm more naturally an INFJ, but must switch to INTJ mode to stay sane.

[Freedom Geek]

I am a big fan of libertarianism. Sure technocracy sounds nice but it will probably degenerate quickly into something much worse.

[Aldanga]

Originally Posted by Franklin71 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

OK, I'm a libertarian, but this topic has been going for a while, so you've probably gotten a lot of pro and con answers already. So, instead I'll answer another question: Why do so many INTJs seem to be either libertarians or technocrats? For me, this is easy. Being a technocrat comes naturally to an INTJ. We believe in logic, reason, and the ability to fix things. A libertarian INTJ probably has all of the same instincts but is also dubious about the ability of centralized authorities to fix things. Mostly, it's a difference between looking at the world as an engineering problem (technocrat) or looking at the world as a biological system full of unpredictable feedback loops that can come back to bite you (libertarian).

Very good observation. I've thought about that before (actually just while reading through this thread), but I've never actually put it into a translatable idea.

	Originally Posted by pocohauntus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Being a technocrat doesn't come easily to me because being an INTJ isn't natural for me. I'm more naturally an INFJ, but must switch to INTJ mode to stay sane.

WTF, mate?
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	Originally Posted by Freedom Geek To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am a big fan of libertarianism. Sure technocracy sounds nice but it will probably degenerate quickly into something much worse.

Exactly. That's the problem I have with any government or institution that's built from the top-down. There's that huge possibility of corruption and destruction of the rights of the individual. Look at the reign of kings. You could have really awesome kings that did great jobs and the people loved them, but then his son would be an ass and ruin life for everybody. I'd rather not have that as my government, thank you very much.

[Col Ratsan]

I find it intersting that we INTJ's are very independent, but we love to improve on systems we come in contact with. We'd rather do it alone - but we search out systems - any system - because we long to improve them.

So, are we 'drawn' to the political or economic system that we can improve the most? (Because we would never like a perfect or near perfect system: no challenge).

Just wondering...?

[White Raven]

Libertarianism. Not anarchy -- more along the lines of constitutional libertarianism or as in Civil Disobedience.


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is what I was looking for, not constitutional libertarianism..