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Taliban kills the enemy, a 14yo girl None
Old 10-09-2012, 07:55 PM   #1
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A 14-YEAR-OLD Pakistani girl who gained public acclaim after protesting against the Taliban’s ban on education for girls has been shot in the head.

Many in Pakistan reacted with shock and revulsion to the shooting on Tuesday of 14-year-old Malala Yousafzai, who was flown to intensive care in the northwestern city of Peshawar where doctors are struggling to save her life…

Malala won international recognition for highlighting Taliban atrocities in Swat with a blog for the BBC three years ago, when the Islamist militants led by radical cleric Maulana Fazlullah burned girls’ schools and terrorised the valley…


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Old 10-09-2012, 07:56 PM   #2
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Females are disposable to the Taliban. So wrong.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:37 PM   #3
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Isn’t it rather sad that it was a teenage girl who had the guts to hold up a mirror to society and say it’s enough. Even now, only secular government officials speak to condemn the act. Not one of the religious leaders has come forward to condemn the Taliban.

So-called community leaders apparently feel terrorized by a movement that combines religious bigotry, hatred of anything that could be accused of being “western” (of course weapons, cell phones, cars and communication satellites and computers are not included here) and archaic socio-cultural norms with brutality, violence, and general immorality.

Yes, females are disposable. But apparently this does not just apply to the Taliban, because the rest of the country falls right in with them. If there were no sympathy for the overarching ideology of the Taliban in place, it is doubtful that they could have established and entrenched themselves there.


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this link will show you another side of just how disposable women are in this culture.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:39 PM   #4
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  Originally Posted by Simurgh
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Isn’t it rather sad that it was a teenage girl who had the guts to hold up a mirror to society and say it’s enough. Even now, only secular government officials speak to condemn the act. Not one of the religious leaders has come forward to condemn the Taliban.

So-called community leaders apparently feel terrorized by a movement that combines religious bigotry, hatred of anything that could be accused of being “western” (of course weapons, cell phones, cars and communication satellites and computers are not included here) and archaic socio-cultural norms with brutality, violence, and general immorality.

Yes, females are disposable. But apparently this does not just apply to the Taliban, because the rest of the country falls right in with them. If there were no sympathy for the overarching ideology of the Taliban in place, it is doubtful that they could have established and entrenched themselves there.


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this link will show you another side of just how disposable women are in this culture.

I don't disagree with you one bit. Good synopsis.

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
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As an outside onlooker...

If the Muslims have a case against the US and allies for occupying the Middle East...fine I get that..

If the Muslims want to continue the age old 'our bible against their bible' fight...fine...

If the Muslims want to use their religion as an excuse to fight people...fine...join the club....

But there is a point when they start throwing acid on women, killing girls for trying to better themselves that I pretty much have to draw the line...

So NO, I won't respect your religion...no, I won't tolerate it...you have a choice, either clean up your house, or some one else will, it's that simple. If as a Muslim you do nothing about this, then you're accepting of it and that makes you fair game.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:03 PM   #6
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Trouble with actual Taliban aside, Pakistan has schooling for girls, and they do regular jobs.

Apart from that, the Taliban are guerrilla fighters, which means that much of the time, you can't distinguish them from normal people in order to take meaningful action against them.

As for people in Pakistan's NWFP province... that area is akin to Native American tribal lands. The Pakistani government has little power there, and those people maintain their own culture. Settling feuds between families by marriage, is pretty old school... but that's kinda the point of traditional marriage: Bringing families together. Bringing people together... I assume that it works on the principle that both sides have the other side's daughters, and that also means that they have to be treated decently lest things be risked on the other side... So both sides should end up treating them decently (at least within the context of their own customs and lifestyle)
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:14 PM   #7
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When it's the Taliban it's an atrocity, when it's a US Drone it's necessary evil.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:26 PM   #8
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  Originally Posted by INTelliJent
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When it's the Taliban it's an atrocity, when it's a US Drone it's necessary evil.

I did think that it was one girl compared to hundreds of thousands. But its still pretty unfortunate. Hope she makes it.

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Old 10-09-2012, 09:28 PM   #9
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The point is that the Taliban was clearly threatened by a 14 yo girl speaking her thoughts to the world. That says a lot.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:14 PM   #10
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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Trouble with actual Taliban aside, Pakistan has schooling for girls, and they do regular jobs.
Apart from that, the Taliban are guerrilla fighters, which means that much of the time, you can't distinguish them from normal people in order to take meaningful action against them.
As for people in Pakistan's NWFP province... that area is akin to Native American tribal lands. The Pakistani government has little power there, and those people maintain their own culture. Settling feuds between families by marriage, is pretty old school... but that's kinda the point of traditional marriage: Bringing families together. Bringing people together... I assume that it works on the principle that both sides have the other side's daughters, and that also means that they have to be treated decently lest things be risked on the other side... So both sides should end up treating them decently (at least within the context of their own customs and lifestyle)

Problem is that you cannot just push the Tailban aside and act as if the world is ok once they are filtered out. Girls are still traded to other families to pay off debts. Girls can go to school if their families allow it and if the community they live in can afford such a school.

The Taliban are not guerilla fighters they are an organized and distinct class of identifiable warmongers. Or do you consider their grab for power in Afghanistan guerrilla warfare? Do you classify tribal warfare that way? In every community people know who is a member of the Taliban, they are not hiding, unless they are clearly out-powered.

And it might mean nothing to you that some little girls are married of to some –what we would consider child-molesters—but I bet the girls see it different. And just because it has been done in the past and is done today does not make it right.

You assume that just because girls are traded from one family to another should means they are treated decently? Are you kidding? Girls are treated as if they were disposable goods. Has that not yet become obvious to you? Or do you think being forced into a marriage with some guy up to 50 years older than you, being constantly raped and impregnated until you either die in child birth or from repeated beatings is decent treatment?

Yeah, that brings families together alright.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:35 PM   #11
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I said decent within the context of their culture. Actually I can't say whether the girls there consider it something negative since they aren't raised with a western viewpoint to begin with. Most likely, given the choice, they would behave like any other humans - preferring their own way of life to yours.

As for the Taliban, they are no longer part of the state. They no longer have most of their old support structure from Afghanistan (although I think that they did indeed mess up the USSR originally because they were guerrilla fighters that couldn't be so easily found and erased)
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:36 PM   #12
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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I said decent within the context of their culture. Actually I can't say whether the girls there consider it something negative since they aren't raised with a western viewpoint to begin with. Most likely, given the choice, they would behave like any other humans - preferring their own way of life to yours.

Sure, women enjoy being shot in the head because that's what they're used to within their own culture.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:37 PM   #13
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That is more an example of clashing cultures being in the same place.

Anyway, if you want to impose your way of life on people - there's all of Africa and plenty of other places that are waiting for intervention also.

And realistically, all the things you want them to have, cost money. Please donate your own. Thank you.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:39 PM   #14
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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That is more an example of clashing cultures being in the same place.

Actually, Islamic women are accustomed to honour killings. Bullets, stones, what's the difference?

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:40 PM   #15
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  Originally Posted by newtome
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The point is that the Taliban was clearly threatened by a 14 yo girl speaking her thoughts to the world. That says a lot.

Yes, its lame. I wouldn't expect that it was the Taliban as a whole that reacted, even if they were all to have the beliefs that would make the girl objectionable. It was probably a small group in that area somehow deciding to take action (maybe not even a group, if it was one man who didn't even successfully kill one girl)

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:42 PM   #16
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Here's an
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of a woman by the Taliban. See, no culture clash. Just a bullet or ten, through the head.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:42 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by Distance
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Actually, Islamic women are accustomed to honour killings. Bullets, stones, what's the difference?

Stuff like honor killings is rare, even in the cultures where it does happen. And the Paki side of the people, aren't Taliban. In Afghanistan however, I expect that plenty of people can shrug off a friend or family member getting killed - because they've seen it happen enough.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #18
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A couple more honor killings.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:45 PM   #19
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  Originally Posted by Distance
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Here's an
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of a woman by the Taliban. See, no culture clash. Just a bullet or ten, through the head.

Considering the size of that crowd, I seriously doubt that the women of that area objected either. It probably works with their belief system. Men and women in an area, usually have the same general morals. Its unlikely that the women of that area would be appreciative of cheating husbands either, so they might not want that kind of law changed.

  Originally Posted by Distance
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A couple more honor killings.

I'm sure you could find info on funky deaths happening almost daily in New York too. 471 homicides in 2009 - the lowest number since 1963? And that's one city. I'm sure all of the murderers had intelligent reasons for their actions.

---

Ultimately, what you guys want to do is force both the men and women in those areas, to think according to your preferences. Not that I have any particular objection to that - Cultures with more power have often enforced their will on those who had less. Might have to kill a lot of people to bring about the changes you want though (lots of women and children dying from drone killing as it is)

And again... standards of living can't be improved without creating suitable infrastructure and spending a lot of money... Good luck.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:56 PM   #20
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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Considering the size of that crowd, I seriously doubt that the women of that area objected either. It probably works with their belief system. Men and women in an area, usually have the same general morals.

I'm sure you could find info on funky deaths happening almost daily in New York too. 471 homicides in 2009 - the lowest number since 1963? And that's one city. I'm sure all of the murderers had intelligent reasons for their actions.

---
Ultimately, what you guys want to do is force both the men and women in those areas, to think according to your preferences. Not that I have any particular objection to that - Cultures with more power have often enforced their will on those who had less. Might have to kill a lot of people to bring about the changes you want though (lots of women and children dying from drone killing as it is)

And again... standards of living can't be improved without creating suitable infrastructure and spending a lot of money... Good luck.

Savages.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:58 PM   #21
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  Originally Posted by Distance
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Savages.

It really is more a factor of education and money. The Afghanis have been at war for a very long time. They haven't had time to grow out of it yet, and it takes a couple of generations of having money and education for the views of a people to change.

If you could make those people's lives better today. Their children might have views that are more along the lines of what you'd prefer, or maybe their grandchildren.

(Then again, Japan has that Age of Consent at 13, and a culture of older men paying young school girls for sexual favors, so there's no guarantee of what direction a culture evolves in)

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:00 PM   #22
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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It really is more a factor of education and money. The Afghanis have been at war for a very long time. They haven't had time to grow out of it yet, and it takes a couple of generations of having money and education for the views of a people to change.

Afghanistan used to be one of the more forward thinking of middle eastern countries prior to the Taliban gaining power. Don't try to pull your crap on me.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #23
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  Originally Posted by Distance
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Afghanistan used to be one of the more forward thinking of middle eastern countries prior to the Taliban gaining power. Don't try to pull your crap on me.

I think you're thinking Iran.

Afghanistan was at war with the USSR, with the Taliban backed by the US. I don't think they were doing all that well.

Iran was fairly progressive before Khomeini's insanity.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:06 PM   #24
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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I think you're thinking Iran.

Afghanistan was at war with the USSR, with the Taliban backed by the US. I don't think they were doing all that well.

Iran was fairly progressive before Khomeini's insanity.

Learn something prior to uttering.


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Old 10-09-2012, 11:10 PM   #25
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  Originally Posted by Distance
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Learn something prior to uttering.


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Ah yes, "the women are suffering", men's lives are always awesome, of course.

You're right, they had education and some careers, but only in a few areas. Most of Afghanistan has been in shit for a very long time, and neither men nor women, get to have very much.

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