Looking for advice

**ajrjaneway** · 08-15-2012, 11:10 AM

I'm a menopausal software engineer turned office assistant, but awash in avocations. I long to be an astronomer, so I fulfill that through teaching little kids about astronomy. It's a blast! I also sing semi-professionally, do genealogy sometimes for pay, and stuff like that.

I have a loving husband and a teenaged daughter who's great. But my family of origin is another matter. My sister is ESFJ and most of the time we get along great and other times not so much. One problem is that she does this ESFJ sales pitch on whatever the latest self-help thing she has found. She's a social worker and a great therapist, but she also tries to do therapy on me, which is bothersome.

So my question is, has anyone found a good way to respond to the ESFJ sales pitch that leaves them feeling affirmed? She keeps saying I'm arrogant and close-minded, which all my friends tell me is not true. So I think it's because I don't enthusiastically embrace her latest life-changing fix from her "sales pitch."

I welcome any advice on this matter. Thanks.

Alice in Illinois

**Bailalobos** · 08-15-2012, 11:21 AM

What about..."humm that sounds really interesting; would you mind emailing me the link so I can do it justice by throughly exploring it?" Then delete the link when it arrives...some time later: ESFJ: "So did you read the info?" You: "Sure did, I really appreciate your letting me know about it. I'll bet there's something newer/better...what's the latest self-help thing you've discovered?" (appeals to her E and F) This could go on ad infinitum...if/until she catches on.

Another possibility: "Yes I checked it out and it just didn't seem right for me" (appeals to the SJ sense of what's "proper" and "correct."

PS: your avatar looks like Betty Crocker cast in Star Trek.

**irun10ks** · 08-15-2012, 12:02 PM

Had an ESFJ for an ex once. Ended really bad. They are pretty clingy and very persistant in trying to get an answer and are pretty bad about giving people space to rationalize or educate themselves on something. I think from the get-go, you have to be affirmative about it. Appealing can only be done with the type by concession (albeit grudgingly). I recommend stating that the ESFJ recognize exactly where the problem lies and why it is a problem. If they can't define that, then they need to purge the action. If they do have one, see if it something worthwhile (sometimes we don't see everything, like the blind spot on our own backs - without the consult of a mirror that is). If it is something worthwhile, I would thank them for the input; but recognize that their form of action is not one that coelesces well to your own personality type.

**The Dan Keizer** · 08-15-2012, 12:13 PM

I always just tell them no, but in a manner using gestures, tone and facial expression which gives them the impression, "Please appreciate the polite 'no' I gave you instead of telling you to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut".

**mcantrim** · 08-15-2012, 12:47 PM

My mother is much like this. I listen politely as long as I can and then I get a really vague, "I'm not quite here" look on my face for a couple of minutes, and then I just kind of drift away. I have taught my sister to use the same technique. People like this get fueled up the more you engage with them on these things. In the case of my mother, a head on refusal to discuss her topic choice will always end in a fight, and who really wants to fight with their 80 year old mother? This approach is sort of a negative reenforcement and when paired with positive reenforcement for appropriate conversation it seems to work most of the time. Another option is to work on my current knitting project and go somewhere else in my mind while she rattles on.

Cooper · 08-15-2012, 01:22 PM

Welcome to the Alley....

I hate "making nice" to people.

You will get more advice if you post your question to the Relationships and Dating subforum. Unfortunately, we do not have a subform for family stuff that deals with siblings or parents.

**A2Rick** · 08-18-2012, 08:59 PM

Set a trap for her. When you know she's about to get pushy with you, speak first about something your into. Also use snarky comments to get a response out of her. It would be the equivelant to her assuming you need her to help you with your own mental state. Also, use direct eye contact to show dominance. Then badger her for not careing enough about you and what you have to say just as she does. If she dosen't get the point and become speechless punch her in the eye. :D

08-15-2012, 11:10 AM	#1
ajrjaneway New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1	I'm a menopausal software engineer turned office assistant, but awash in avocations. I long to be an astronomer, so I fulfill that through teaching little kids about astronomy. It's a blast! I also sing semi-professionally, do genealogy sometimes for pay, and stuff like that. I have a loving husband and a teenaged daughter who's great. But my family of origin is another matter. My sister is ESFJ and most of the time we get along great and other times not so much. One problem is that she does this ESFJ sales pitch on whatever the latest self-help thing she has found. She's a social worker and a great therapist, but she also tries to do therapy on me, which is bothersome. So my question is, has anyone found a good way to respond to the ESFJ sales pitch that leaves them feeling affirmed? She keeps saying I'm arrogant and close-minded, which all my friends tell me is not true. So I think it's because I don't enthusiastically embrace her latest life-changing fix from her "sales pitch." I welcome any advice on this matter. Thanks. Alice in Illinois
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08-15-2012, 11:21 AM	#2
Bailalobos Veteran Member [77%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3,107	What about..."humm that sounds really interesting; would you mind emailing me the link so I can do it justice by throughly exploring it?" Then delete the link when it arrives...some time later: ESFJ: "So did you read the info?" You: "Sure did, I really appreciate your letting me know about it. I'll bet there's something newer/better...what's the latest self-help thing you've discovered?" (appeals to her E and F) This could go on ad infinitum...if/until she catches on. Another possibility: "Yes I checked it out and it just didn't seem right for me" (appeals to the SJ sense of what's "proper" and "correct." PS: your avatar looks like Betty Crocker cast in Star Trek.
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08-15-2012, 12:02 PM	#3
irun10ks Member [07%] MBTI: InTp Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 280	Had an ESFJ for an ex once. Ended really bad. They are pretty clingy and very persistant in trying to get an answer and are pretty bad about giving people space to rationalize or educate themselves on something. I think from the get-go, you have to be affirmative about it. Appealing can only be done with the type by concession (albeit grudgingly). I recommend stating that the ESFJ recognize exactly where the problem lies and why it is a problem. If they can't define that, then they need to purge the action. If they do have one, see if it something worthwhile (sometimes we don't see everything, like the blind spot on our own backs - without the consult of a mirror that is). If it is something worthwhile, I would thank them for the input; but recognize that their form of action is not one that coelesces well to your own personality type.
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08-15-2012, 12:13 PM	#4
The Dan Keizer Core Member [111%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4,443	I always just tell them no, but in a manner using gestures, tone and facial expression which gives them the impression, "Please appreciate the polite 'no' I gave you instead of telling you to go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut".
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08-15-2012, 12:47 PM	#5
mcantrim Member [37%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,494	My mother is much like this. I listen politely as long as I can and then I get a really vague, "I'm not quite here" look on my face for a couple of minutes, and then I just kind of drift away. I have taught my sister to use the same technique. People like this get fueled up the more you engage with them on these things. In the case of my mother, a head on refusal to discuss her topic choice will always end in a fight, and who really wants to fight with their 80 year old mother? This approach is sort of a negative reenforcement and when paired with positive reenforcement for appropriate conversation it seems to work most of the time. Another option is to work on my current knitting project and go somewhere else in my mind while she rattles on.
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08-15-2012, 01:22 PM	#6
Cooper Core Member [1341%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 53,665	Welcome to the Alley.... I hate "making nice" to people. You will get more advice if you post your question to the Relationships and Dating subforum. Unfortunately, we do not have a subform for family stuff that deals with siblings or parents.
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08-18-2012, 08:59 PM	#7
A2Rick New Member [01%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 35	Set a trap for her. When you know she's about to get pushy with you, speak first about something your into. Also use snarky comments to get a response out of her. It would be the equivelant to her assuming you need her to help you with your own mental state. Also, use direct eye contact to show dominance. Then badger her for not careing enough about you and what you have to say just as she does. If she dosen't get the point and become speechless punch her in the eye. :D
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