[Carot]

A fear...that they'll be afraid of me. A fear that they'll get close, see inside, and recoil in revulsion. A fear that I'll hurt them. A fear that I'm not good enough (in whatever way).

A fear that they won't be able to understand me, no matter how I explain it.

A thousand fears....how does one tiny, little hope, continue to keep them all at bay? And after it gets defeated, time and again, how does it find a way to go on?

It's a tiny, ever-adapting, stubborn thing, it never goes down, never gets beaten, and sometimes it hurts beyond my ability to communicate it. I so fear it's pain.

[ElstonGunn]

I wouldn't really call it fear. It just feels uncomfortable. The act in and of itself, with no consideration whatsoever of what happens in the seconds following it. The one time that I actually lost sleep over a rejection, it was because of confusion rather than hurt (even with my obliviousness, I thought I was getting some pretty clear signals, so I spent too much time trying to figure out an unsolvable puzzle).

[Tejeira]

Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I had a thought recently. I don't fear talking to women, whether in a friendly or flirtatious context, they are just humans as men are. But why do some guys fear talking to women? Is it due to: - some guys don't grow out of the "cooties" stage? Boys aged 5/6/7 see girls as icky, but grow out of this in tween years. Do some men still have the feeling of seeing girls as different? - some men, due to cultural/religious reasons, have no experience developing relationships with women (in a platonic sense at the base) - general shyness/insecurity - some men are conditioned by popular culture to see women as different, or to be apprehensive around them. It's like how in teen Hollywood movies, the guys are scared to talk to a girl, since they're intimidated by her looks.

Is this real? I don't know any guys that fear talking to women.

Why would any person be afraid to talk to another person? Maybe this is a "young" guy thing. Probably by the time you hit your 30's and up, you just don't give a shit, and do your thing. Who cares if someone likes you or not? Fukem
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---------- Post added 07-20-2012 at 08:16 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fear is the body's way of telling you that you don't need to try something to know it's a stupid idea.

No way. Fear is fun! Seriously, if something ever scares me, I know it's a challenge to be overcome. It's nice to have a little pulse-quickening, it's good to toughen you to face your fears and just do it!

I was afraid for one second before I moved on my own to a different part of the country, transferring my career, not knowing anyone here or having any support system. But it's fun! I gained alot of skills around being independent, relying only on myself, and sharpening my focus in life.

Fear just means there may be weakness in a particular skillset, person isn't confident that they will execute successful, but the only choice is to get better by trying, or stagnate and not live up to your full potential.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is this real? I don't know any guys that fear talking to women.

Then you've clearly a selection bias.

	Why would any person be afraid to talk to another person? Maybe this is a "young" guy thing. Probably by the time you hit your 30's and up, you just don't give a shit, and do your thing. Who cares if someone likes you or not? Fukem To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You've never walked into a shooting gallery of privileged women.

Not giving a shit would preclude bothering. If I don't care, then someone else can fuck them. I'll be elsewhere, better off, waiting for someone I do care about.

	Fear just means there may be weakness in a particular skillset, person isn't confident that they will execute successful, but the only choice is to get better by trying, or stagnate and not live up to your full potential.

Reality isn't a given, confidence isn't magic, and practice doesn't make perfect. Besides, most "social skills" are usually just bullshit and not something to poison a serious potential relationship with.

Full potential include being a good killer, liar, or thief? Potential's no reason to do anything.

[Tejeira]

Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Then you've clearly a selection bias. You've never walked into a shooting gallery of privileged women. Not giving a shit would preclude bothering. If I don't care, then someone else can fuck them. I'll be elsewhere, better off, waiting for someone I do care about. Reality isn't a given, confidence isn't magic, and practice doesn't make perfect. Besides, most "social skills" are usually just bullshit and not something to poison a serious potential relationship with. Full potential include being a good killer, liar, or thief? Potential's no reason to do anything.

Huh? I'm just saying don't stress about stuff. Just have fun. People like you or they don't. It's whatever. Just sayin' go after what you want, and if people aren't down with it, fukem. Like, don't beat yourself up about it. Basically, like yourself. A person who likes themselves and is happy is very likable by others.

And by "full potential", I mean living a happy, content, fulfilled life where you love yourself, your life, and those around you. Re: Maslow's Hierarchy of Need....basically self-actualization.


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[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Huh? I'm just saying don't stress about stuff. Just have fun. People like you or they don't. It's whatever. Just sayin' go after what you want, and if people aren't down with it, fukem. Like, don't beat yourself up about it. Basically, like yourself. A person who likes themselves and is happy is very likable by others.

There's nothing fun about dating itself. It's just a fucked up means to an improbable end. I certainly don't like people based on their self-image, and I'm certainly not baselessly happy and can't stand such dogmatic fluff. Those demanding that image of me have declared themselves enemies and worthless for anything else.

Maslow was full of it. Actual psychology disagrees, and his cultural and personal biases are apparent.

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Strangely, the complaints of individuality referenced missed the contradiction of "self-actualization" he was pushing. Rand among others would roll over in her grave.

[Tejeira]

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There's nothing fun about dating itself. It's just a fucked up means to an improbable end. I certainly don't like people based on their self-image, and I'm certainly not baselessly happy and can't stand such dogmatic fluff. Those demanding that image of me have declared themselves enemies and worthless for anything else.

Err? Dating is one of the most fun things on the planet. It's not f'ed up, it's pretty great to meet cool people and debate/learn/grow from them, and sometimes you make great friends along the way that enjoy your same hobbies and activities. So it's good for learning, friendship, and maybe even something more meaningful later.

What does this mean "I certainly don't like people based on their self-image." Wha....?

Being happy isn't baseless. Yes conditions need to be met for human happiness to exist. Happiness is a scientifically documented human emotion, not fluff.

Who is demanding anything of you?

People have declared themselves your enemies? That's an interesting world to live in.

People are worthless for anything else? Dark times, my friend.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Err? Dating is one of the most fun things on the planet. It's not f'ed up, it's pretty great to meet cool people and debate/learn/grow from them, and sometimes you make great friends along the way that enjoy your same hobbies and activities. So it's good for learning, friendship, and maybe even something more meaningful later.

Debate hasn't to do with people to me. There's an intellectual reduction. The people are irrelevant. Debating in person's horrible though. I can't bloody stand the politics, which far worse than online. I don't do friends and certainly aren't dating for one. That'd be cross-purposes anyway. My hobbies have as little to do with others as possible. Interference and politics aren't appreciated and utterly against the point. If she's not triggering my sentimentality already, she's a permanent dud. There will be no later.

	What does this mean "I certainly don't like people based on their self-image." Wha....?

Confidence isn't a turn-on to me. The lack of it's not really an issue itself. Happy means little either. It says nothing of my experience of the person. Optimists, specifically, are a pain in the ass, even if they don't get evangelical, which most do.

	Being happy isn't baseless. Yes conditions need to be met for human happiness to exist. That is why I mentioned the Hierarchy of Need and included the link. Happiness is a scientifically documented human emotion, not fluff.

Maslow wasn't pursuing psychology or coherent philosophy. He's easily debunked. Trying to mix values and science is a fool's errand. My requirements are far more complicated and not based around me merely being happy, or I'd just OD on something, highest high possible after all.

	Who is demanding anything of you?

People all do, even more IRL. Women in even potential dating contexts get really demanding and condescending, even up front. Some are just more passive-aggressive about it. Such has always been my experience.

	People have declared themselves your enemies? That's an interesting world to live in.

Politics. They've an agenda which clearly clashes with mine. Many appeal to groups and set about coercion and harassment. It's usually just called culture. Calling themselves my friend is usually a warning.

	People are worthless for anything else? Dark times, my friend.

Most. They've nothing I want but probably want something from me. That's just life since age 2.

[Tejeira]

What are your requirements?

---------- Post added 07-20-2012 at 09:32 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Autoptic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Women in even potential dating contexts get really demanding and condescending, even up front. Some are just more passive-aggressive about it. Such has always been my experience.

Seriously? Holy crap, you're going out with some sucky people. It sounds adversarial. Are you partially responsible for setting an adversarial tone? I ask, because if you're like this on dates, you would scare the shit out of me. Not being mean, I'm being real with you. I believe you though, it sounds like you've had some really bad dates. Condescending?? Wow they must just have really bad manners. Why on earth would someone say "yes" to a date with you, and then be condescending and demanding? Very weird. Where do you live? Maybe the environment is just full of awful, heineous, evil harpies?

There are nice girls out there! I've even seen a few on the forum, some are truly nice and non-judgemental. I mean, if a girl wants you to be her boyfriend, she's not going to be a bitch to you. Try finding a nice girl?

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Tejeira To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What are your requirements?

Whatever works, which clearly isn't much. My requirements have likely been permanently destroyed, if they even existed.

Seriously? Holy crap, you're going out with some sucky people. It sounds adversarial. Are you partially responsible for setting an adversarial tone? I ask, because if you're like this on dates, you would scare the shit out of me. Not being mean, I'm being real with you. I believe you though, it sounds like you've had some really bad dates. Condescending?? Wow they must just have really bad manners. Why on earth would someone say "yes" to a date with you, and then be condescending and demanding? Very weird. Where do you live? Maybe the environment is just full of awful, heineous, evil harpies?

I've never dated. I'm talking personal pre-dating stuff and external sources. They're like this on dating sites and when talking about dating IRL or online. I'm getting snarky shit for not wanting to play "friends" or pursue flings.

	There are nice girls out there! I've even seen a few on the forum, some are truly nice and non-judgemental. I mean, if a girl wants you to be her boyfriend, she's not going to be a bitch to you. Try finding a nice girl?

No such thing. "Politeness" is a sham, usually indicating stepford sheeple, usually evangelical. Besides, women aren't magically going want me as a stranger, especially any that're attractive to me anymore. Most want impersonal material and socio-political stuff framed on a person who's supposed to contort to fit in it. I'm supposed to kiss up and pay up, among other things, before being regarded as even a possibility.

I'm a relative old (31) undergrad, beyond broke, and job/vehicle-less, but I get shit even from those in similar situations. It's just normal. Less than a handful of those I've described ever knew any of that either, so that's not even a factor.