[Fecal McAngry]

Good, brief video on this fiasco:


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[Tactical Panda]

I was told in my chemistry class at uni that unsaturated fat has more double bonds, thus making them generally more reactive and able to break apart or something, which in turn results in smaller polymer groups that aid digestion and energy conversion.

But I am a little rusty.

Plus, they are carbs and thus tend to release a lot of energy. Eat too much and its too much energy for your system, that if isn't used sort of contributes to fat. Too much fat and it tends to be less than desirable - for movement at the very least.

[thod]

As I recall, almost all the cholesterol in the blood is made by the liver and does not come from diet. The obvious way to reduce it is to interfere with it's natural production.

[Intuition]

How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us?

We saw the McDonald's drive through line, with drivers almost as fat as the truck they were sitting in.

[Bullwinkle]

Sounds like the guy in the video is an idiot to me. There s too much scientific evidence to the contrary. Sorry no links but they are not hard to find. True, a little is not bad every now & then, but our Western lifestyle & the crappy diet of most people means totally preventable lifestyle diseases are on the rise. The current generation is predicted to buck the trend and have a shorter life span than their parents.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by Intuition To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How did we come to believe saturated fat and cholesterol are bad for us? We saw the McDonald's drive through line, with drivers almost as fat as the truck they were sitting in.

The obesity crisis in the US coincided with the push to eat _less_ saturated fat and cholesterol. What you have described is an _inverse_ relationship.

---------- Post added 07-17-2012 at 04:45 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Bullwinkle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sounds like the guy in the video is an idiot to me. There s too much scientific evidence to the contrary.

He just ran through the scientific evidence for you...

[thod]

Gauchos, Mongols, Eskimos chow down on dead animals and little else. Lots of animals are exclusive carnivores. I suspect a vegetarian plot to discredit meat.

[Uber10]

How to make America eat cereals instead of meat in the morning?

Nigella Lawson (carnivore) vs Gillian McKeith (vegan)


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[Phaze228]

Thanks for this post, another thing I forgot to question because I thought the science was solid on this based on the consistent positive expressions in nutrition and health articles.

[MechanicalSun]

High consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol is good ...
reference ↓

( Show Spoiler )

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[Distance]

It's because of studies like this one from
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about consumption of red meat causing more deaths, that create
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Sometimes, simplification of issues erodes on accuracy.

[The Dan Keizer]

Well back when I was a kid there was this commercial for a "diet" chocolate cake and this baker came down from the heavens and was like, "YOU CAN EAT CAKE!!!" and all the people were like, "What about fat?" and the baker goes, "NO FAT!" and this other bitch goes, "What about cholesterol?" and the baker says, "NO CHOLESTROL!" and the crowd cheers for joy that they no longer have to abstain from sweets to avoid the deadly fats and cholestrol.

And ever since I saw that, I believed they were both bad for you.

[modulus]

My understanding is that since arterial plaques are comprised of cholesterol, the conclusion was erroneously drawn that cholesterol is evil, without any serious debunking before it became popular lore and sparked the low-fat everything craze.

[Autumnleaf]

Americans eat lots of refined sugars. Sugars metabolize making blood acidic. Body compensates by laying down cholesterol in arteries to protect them from acidic blood. Cholesterol builds up into plaques which can break off to cause strokes or heart attacks, or over time plaques can block arteries and mess up blood flow.

Coroners find cholesterol in the arteries of dead people so they blow the whistle on cholesterol. The vinegar and wheat grass drinkers who pay attention to blood pH will probably have the last laugh but there aren't many expensive research studies done on the benefits of drinking vinegar and wheat grass.

apple cider vinegar, not white vinegar FYI

[24601]

I'm a total foodie. I love eating, cooking, presentation, feeding others, the whole shabang. I also believe in the Kate Moss principle: Nothing is as good as thin feels. One of the most soothing, filling things to eat is fat. If you want to feel full, have some fat. A smear of avocado or some olive oil will fill you up much faster than fiber.

Just having a full stomach doesn't sate your appetite, despite what ladies' mags may say. Ever notice all these people going, "Hurr durr, fiber makes you thin and full!" are wearing clothes in the double digit sizes? There's a reason. Fat doesn't make you fat. Sugar, refined flour, prepackaged food, and dairy products make you fat. I challenge anyone to cut out those products, and assuming you're merely overweight and not obese, you will have a waist line under 36" in a year's time with no other changes.

[Typhon]

Originally Posted by 24601 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Just having a full stomach doesn't sate your appetite, despite what ladies' mags may say. Ever notice all these people going, "Hurr durr, fiber makes you thin and full!" are wearing clothes in the double digit sizes? There's a reason. Fat doesn't make you fat. Sugar, refined flour, prepackaged food, and dairy products make you fat. I challenge anyone to cut out those products, and assuming you're merely overweight and not obese, you will have a waist line under 36" in a year's time with no other changes.

Agreed completely, except for the part about delicious dairy products (though most are far too refined and processed). A solid diet is the vital bedrock upon which all fitness rests, which is important to implement if you are overweight.

Personally I think I'll stick to my diet of red meat and greens, instead of bread and sugar and rice. It works for me as a physically active person and I stay pretty lean despite all the "fatty" foods I eat. I think I'll go with this
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instead of
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.

[24601]

Originally Posted by Typhon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Agreed completely, except for the part about delicious dairy products (though most are far too refined and processed). A solid diet is the vital bedrock upon which all fitness rests, which is important to implement if you are overweight. Personally I think I'll stick to my diet of red meat and greens, instead of bread and sugar and rice. It works for me as a physically active person and I stay pretty lean despite all the "fatty" foods I eat. I think I'll go with this To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. instead of To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

I know for me, the second I start eating dairy, my weight starts creeping up, save for cottage cheese. Some dairy is okay. Everything in moderation. Of course, I also think if you're happy being fat, you're a damn fool to do something just to fit in, but that's another story.
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I can understand thinking it's more fun to eat Italian chocolate torte than it is to eat salad and feel bad about being fat. It's all a matter of what we value, and I wouldn't try to project my values onto anyone else.

Red meat and greens are a great diet - I seriously miss living in an area where it was easier to get more fresh and diverse produce. Enjoy it for me.

[Typhon]

Originally Posted by 24601 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I know for me, the second I start eating dairy, my weight starts creeping up, save for cottage cheese. Some dairy is okay. Everything in moderation. Of course, I also think if you're happy being fat, you're a damn fool to do something just to fit in, but that's another story. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I can understand thinking it's more fun to eat Italian chocolate torte than it is to eat salad and feel bad about being fat. It's all a matter of what we value, and I wouldn't try to project my values onto anyone else. Red meat and greens are a great diet - I seriously miss living in an area where it was easier to get more fresh and diverse produce. Enjoy it for me.

Indeed, It's important to know how your own body reacts to certain foods. I count myself blessed because at least half of my family can't process most dairy products, whereas I can consume huge amounts without negative consequences. And I agree that changes must come from within the individual; not society. Anything else is dishonest and living in self-shame. I'll definitely keep enjoying my high protein and vegetable diet.

[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by Uber10 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nigella Lawson (carnivore) vs Gillian McKeith (vegan)

And they're the same age, too. Yikes!

[Vagrant]

Evidence I've seen suggests a paleolithic diet is the healthiest. Lots of lean meat and fruits/berries will do a body good.

[sunitaishot]

so excess fat leading to heart disease or other cardiovascular issues is the beliefs of nutritionists?

I don't personally see the need to eat excess fat. People are socially conditioned to view sweet/fatty foods as inherently better than their opposites, hence why fast food is big, and it's "uncool" to eat salads.

---------- Post added 07-18-2012 at 04:25 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Uber10 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How to make America eat cereals instead of meat in the morning? Nigella Lawson (carnivore) vs Gillian McKeith (vegan) To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

One is naturally good looking, the other is naturally ugly. Unless you suggest some correlation between humans who meat eat and perceived physical attractiveness.

---------- Post added 07-18-2012 at 04:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Americans eat lots of refined sugars. Sugars metabolize making blood acidic. Body compensates by laying down cholesterol in arteries to protect them from acidic blood. Cholesterol builds up into plaques which can break off to cause strokes or heart attacks, or over time plaques can block arteries and mess up blood flow. Coroners find cholesterol in the arteries of dead people so they blow the whistle on cholesterol. The vinegar and wheat grass drinkers who pay attention to blood pH will probably have the last laugh but there aren't many expensive research studies done on the benefits of drinking vinegar and wheat grass. apple cider vinegar, not white vinegar FYI

the price of culturally defined diets, eh? lol...

Whether we need the meat-sweet diet is another thing, but I don't think common Western foods are inherently better tasting than others. Whether inherently better tasting exists as a factor is moot. We all know that persons hold different tastes in food.

[Nothingradio]

	the price of culturally defined diets, eh? lol... Whether we need the meat-sweet diet is another thing, but I don't think common Western foods are inherently better tasting than others. Whether inherently better tasting exists as a factor is moot. We all know that persons hold different tastes in food.

i disagree. Sure, everyone had different tastes in food, but for the most part the human body is wired to crave sugary, salty, and fatty foods. Fast food resaturates use these basic human instincts to their advantage, making what is basically culinary pornography.

So for the majority of the people, what is typically considered western food (hot dogs, hamburgers, french fries, etc) at least satisfy basic human cravings, while still not being inherently better tasting. For instance, I enjoy the taste of baked sweet potatoes more than I do french fries, but I tend to crave french fries while I dont crave sweet potatoes.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The vinegar and wheat grass drinkers who pay attention to blood pH will probably have the last laugh but there aren't many expensive research studies done on the benefits of drinking vinegar and wheat grass.

The reason for that is simple -- no one can patent wheatgrass or apple cider vinegar or lemon juice. So there's not much reason to fund a study.

	apple cider vinegar, not white vinegar FYI

Asians apparently use rice vinegar, often fruit-flavored. They sell it at the market near me. It's pretty tasty too, if you don't mind a little pucker in the morning.
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What amazed me is how for 30 years the conventional medical community told everyone to eat trans fats because it had no cholesterol. Why would they imagine that was a good idea? Trans fats don't occur in nature, so it would be a better assumption to eat cis fats that we evolved to digest?

Which is why sitting in organic chem many years ago I went huh? and stopped eating margarine after that. 30+ years it turns out to be a wise decision.

[Magda]

	Originally Posted by modulus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My understanding is that since arterial plaques are comprised of cholesterol, the conclusion was erroneously drawn that cholesterol is evil, without any serious debunking before it became popular lore and sparked the low-fat everything craze.

Precisely. People just assumed that because high cholesterol in the bloodstream was bad, that eating cholesterol must be bad for you.

In fact, most ingested cholesterol is esterified, and esterified cholesterol is poorly absorbed. The body also compensates for any absorption of additional cholesterol by reducing cholesterol synthesis. So cholesterol intake in food has little, if any, effect on total body cholesterol content or concentrations of cholesterol in the blood.

Consuming large amounts of fat can result in the production of more cholesterol to aid in breaking it down, and the type of fat can effect the HDL/LDL ratio, but other foods (and many genetic factors) can also effect cholesterol production.

On the other hand, if your diet is too low in fat, your body's level of HDL goes down, resulting in higher LDL (bad cholesterol) levels.

So it's actually a lot more complicated than "fat/cholesterol is good" vs. "fat/cholesterol is bad".

[Fecal McAngry]

Interesting.

"An increase in carbohydrates and decrease in saturated fats leads to a rise in heart attack risk"


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---------- Post added 07-18-2012 at 11:20 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Magda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Precisely. People just assumed that because high cholesterol in the bloodstream was bad

And of course, it isn't, unless total cholesterol is very, very high. Knowing total cholesterol and nothing else is absolutely value-free info unless the number is very low (unhealthy) or extremely high (also unhealthy).

INTP Emily Deans has written some great stuff on the health hazards of low cholesterol (increased risk of infections, suicide, etc.):


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