[Karamazov]

I'm always reminded of the obscenity trial of Larry Flint, at the behest of anti-pornography committee in Ohio, headed by none other than
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. Irony is always amusing.

This was merely a smaller battle against the backdrop of the
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, which concluded that obscenity wasn't protected under the First Amendment, and now the so-called
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is used to determine what is or isn't obscene.

So what are your thoughts concerning the proliferation of pornography? Is it responsible for the moral degradation of society, as some have posited? Is it a gateway for more "deviant" behavior?

Have you ever partaken in viewing it? If so, what are your thoughts on that experience, whether in the past or still on going?

[PHS Philip]

My only comment on America's "obscenity" phobia: puritanism is silly.

[muguly]

Naked people are happy people. You don't see too many people arguing and fighting when watching porn either on or off the screen.

[tp6626]

I would add that without clothes and possessions, there appears to be less distinction between social levels / classes. Porn is one of the few things that highlights just how much like animals we really are. Which is fine by me!

[Malotis]

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So what are your thoughts concerning the proliferation of pornography?

My thoughts on pornography are the same as everything else; do what you want, just don't infringe the rights of somebody else in the process. If one party wants to supply or produce pornographic material, and another party wants to purchase it, then I believe any or all potential transactions that take place accordingly should be done 100% free of any or all third person parties who view the practice as corrupt or otherwise worth regulating for some "heightened" morale judgment.

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it responsible for the moral degradation of society, as some have posited? Is it a gateway for more "deviant" behavior??

Pornography is not responsible for the moral degradation of society. If anyone else has posted otherwise then they are straight up morons who should consider hanging themselves.

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you ever partaken in viewing it?

Of course I have partaken in viewing it. The problem with pornography, however, is that 99.9% of the free stuff online is crap, and the stuff you can pay for isn't much better either. If I'm high, alone, horny, and home, (which unfortunately isn't often) then I may take out some dvd's or otherwise search for something that offers the desired visual images that help get me off (HBO, Showtime, Cinamax, magazines, etc).

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If so, what are your thoughts on that experience, whether in the past or still on going?

I find that my thoughts on those experiences are hard to describe unless you can understand the appeal of being high, and more specifically, the appeal of high sex.
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[CarolinetheENFP]

haha
i love it!
and i was totally addicted
till i got caught
talk about awkward conversations..

[Colette]

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So what are your thoughts concerning the proliferation of pornography? Is it responsible for the moral degradation of society, as some have posited? Is it a gateway for more "deviant" behavior?

I don't think it's responsible for moral degradation, but I would suspect a possible association between a penchant for pornography, and a tendency to objectify sexual partners of that gender (and perhaps that gender generally). People I've talked to who enjoy porn, deny this of course, and say that they can compartmentalise the porn, in relation to real life, healthy relationships, but I do wonder the extent to which this is really true.

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you ever partaken in viewing it? If so, what are your thoughts on that experience, whether in the past or still on going?

I've seen it, but have no enjoyment of it or wish to partake at all. It's not that I have a moral objection, just that it bores and vaguely disgusts me. I guess I'm basically not turned on by random bodies, divorced from any kind of mind, soul or personality.

[Eric86]

I watch it every now and then, but I do really like it a lot. It's really fun to see.
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(even if all I'm doing is watching it lol) It doesn't make me think any differently of girls than I always have, though.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So what are your thoughts concerning the proliferation of pornography? Is it responsible for the moral degradation of society, as some have posited? Is it a gateway for more "deviant" behavior? Have you ever partaken in viewing it? If so, what are your thoughts on that experience, whether in the past or still on going?

It's human. That depends on the moral system, but the current popular moral system descended from a number of previous moral systems, pretty much all of which would consider their bastard descendant a woefully degraded state. Define deviant, if you mean kinky, yes, from some. All I've ever heard of, having mental issues resulting from it, had preexisting issues. Yes, it's pretty much my only experience as yet but hasn't compelled me into anything stupid. I don't intend to do casual relationships much less treat the female as an object. I've rather had enough of objects because of the porn.

[enWTFp]

Everybody, everybody, everybody... a favourite song by SOAD.

I wouldn't believe any non-ISFJ participant in the discussion if they claim they've never 'touched' this 'issue'.

My personal view is that it doesn't lead us to anything good, but it is inevitable part of our process of imposing the human subconsciousness out in the light of our consciousness. As I said, I don't find anything good in this process, because it is the type of never-ending greedy process like for example the usage of petrol. The more we use, the more we need. We exhaust our own subconsciousness with paralyzing total information (in 1984 style) and it only leaves us emptier and emptier from the inside. We dig deeper in the subconsciousness only to find and create uglier and uglier things there (because that is the natural role of the subconsciousness, and it is needed - it balances out our public sanity). So nothing good comes out of this, we would never 'clear' the ugly side and completely put it into the light, and if we ever succeed we would tear ourselves from half of our own human identity, which I think will affect badly our overall capabilities. The result for now is the increasing amount of 'insane' individuals in the public light.

stasis made a great short comment in another thread, mentioning the loss of innocence for the sake of information. In some sense I talk about the same thing.

I realize this process is irreversible, and I do not fight against the path that humanity walks. I am just a little amused by how much we insist on increasing the speed when it is clear we just do it by force of our own speed now, and not because of any objective (outside of the human society) reasons.

Another song is Stinkfist by Tool, but let's not mention it.

[Autoptic]

You could say the same for the introspection of the first sentient apes. If they stopped, they never would have lost their "simianity" and we would have no humanity. We are just becoming something else, growing pains and all.

[enWTFp]

I agree, let's say I'm allowed to dislike the thing we are becoming, and also I am not convinced anymore that there is any real choice in what we do - humanity as a whole - because the social processes of the group take over. I do not approve the lack of freedom which following the line of progress imposes on us.

From my point of view, people look as some ants on a steep leaf, they have freedom in their individual movements, but as a group they just follow the steep down. And moreover, I do not believe that this is really the optimal path for us. I believe this is the optimal path for nature, with probability to get rid of us. (which leads me to another Tool song - Aenima, but let's not mention it too)

[redbaren]

I look at at porn on a regular basis to relive my pressure, I am under age but I do not care there is no age limit on my right to relive my pressures. I really don't care if people look at it or not, I don't think it should be a forbidden subject when its some thing normal.

[Skatt]

Originally Posted by enWTFp To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I agree, let's say I'm allowed to dislike the thing we are becoming, and also I am not convinced anymore that there is any real choice in what we do - humanity as a whole - because the social processes of the group take over. I do not approve the lack of freedom which following the line of progress imposes on us. From my point of view, people look as some ants on a steep leaf, they have freedom in their individual movements, but as a group they just follow the steep down. And moreover, I do not believe that this is really the optimal path for us. I believe this is the optimal path for nature, with probability to get rid of us. (which leads me to another Tool song - Aenima, but let's not mention it too)

That was a remarkably INTJ thing to say, I suppose rather that it's better to say that it just really hit me that ENFPs have the world-view thing too.
Since I was very young I've identified this 'end' of our primal nature. It seems like no matter how smart and organized we get as a whole, we will always remain in our primitive 'tribes with spears' state.
I like porn, I like freedom, I like chaos. I think I've agreed with almost every response on this thread. Not Colette's though, I don't really get where that idea comes from.
Porn works and that makes it good enough for me. I've even heard rumors of it being useful in rehabilitation for sex-offenders, never really looked into that much though.

[Airius]

I enjoy watching pornography. It gives me creative ideas.

[Saint]

Porn is a great for humanity. Socially, it's an incredible tool.

Think about it: With the aide of porn*, lust can be cured with just a hand. (Masturbation.)

Think about that. Seriously. How civilized a society we are to have this! It really is great that we have created such an outlet for our horomes. And it's not to detract from sex, it's simply a substitute when the sex is not available (or at lest that's how porn is used most of the time?).

Degradation of society? What basis is there for such a claim?! What degradation? Is society better off hiding from who we really are? That's nonsense.


* = or really just a good imagination, porn is simply a helper

[Danisty]

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it responsible for the moral degradation of society, as some have posited?

No, people have the desires before they have the porn. Where do you think porn comes from?

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it a gateway for more "deviant" behavior?

What do you consider deviant?

	Originally Posted by Karamazov To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you ever partaken in viewing it? If so, what are your thoughts on that experience, whether in the past or still on going?

I'm a big fan of porn and I often feel in the minority since I'm a woman. Seriously, I don't know where I'd be without porn. I probably would have gone insane already. Unlike most women, I seem to have a thing for visual stimulation and I don't find porn any more harmful than a romance novel. It's basically the same thing, but targeted at a different audience.

[cncracer]

I am not sure I object to what society see as porn as long as it is an adult and not forced issue. An adult who make porn or watches porn on their own is not a concern to me.
The problem is when it involves minors (a legal issue), or is against a person desires (a personal issue).
The issue on being nude is not porn in my view, this is a fall back on the old religious views which attach our true self image, and is more harmful than porn in my view.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Malotis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Of course I have partaken in viewing it. The problem with pornography, however, is that 99.9% of the free stuff online is crap, and the stuff you can pay for isn't much better either. If I'm high, alone, horny, and home, (which unfortunately isn't often) then I may take out some dvd's or otherwise search for something that offers the desired visual images that help get me off (HBO, Showtime, Cinamax, magazines, etc).

Not really. Any of the 2.0 type sites offer some exceptional quality videos. Just sort by rating and look over thumbnails for something that fits your fancy.

Regarding whether it leads to degradation, I don't buy it. It may lead to becoming irreligious, but honeslty I've been exposed to porn since I was 12 or so and have not had any significant sexual problems or unethical sexual behavior. I had a few shallow sexual relationships in college, but who doesn't?

	The problem is when it involves minors (a legal issue), or is against a person desires (a personal issue).

Of course. Consent in any sexual situation is vital for it to be "ethical", its really the only "ethical" issue out there unless the person is married. A minor can't consent, and of course if someone has delivered a clear "no" and the other party forces then its unethical and criminal. But how much porn really involves either in the age of instant age verification and overwhelming paperwork? Very little.

Drunk consent is still consent, BTW, even when the shallow hag regrets it in the morning.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Drunk consent is still consent, BTW, even when the shallow hag regrets it in the morning.

It isn't legally, and last I checked the male is always considered the aggressor even if drunk, so you might want to reconsider a drunk encounter before it happens if you're a male American at least.

[invicta]

I have no problems with pornography, I like the older, more human 70s and 80s pornography, before it went so gonzo.

It's interesting to see what the male psyche finds sexy or arousing in different eras. In the earlier porn it was very straightforward, sometimes simply nude women on film were enough. Just plain sex acts on film seemed to be the entirety of the subject matter in the stag film era.

In the 70s and 80s these films entered the big screen, and the directors would add cute little fantastical stories to them, but still the sexual activity itself was depicted as enjoyable for all involved.

Some of the pornography today is centered around having the women engaged in ever more extreme acts, and there is little to no regard for the sexuality of the woman, the focus seems to me to be more of a frustration relief than a depiction of mutual sexual engagement and enjoyment.

I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts as to why this seems to be, and what is going on socially to produce the change.

[Autoptic]

	Originally Posted by invicta To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Some of the pornography today is centered around having the women engaged in ever more extreme acts, and there is little to no regard for the sexuality of the woman, the focus seems to me to be more of a frustration relief than a depiction of mutual sexual engagement and enjoyment.

Why are movies usually about conflict and the bizarre and not peace and banality? It's mundane and boring. It, it's difficulties, and/or it's failures are probably where they got the frustration.

[invicta]

So you think people are less easily sexually entertained now than in the past? I can see that being part of the reason.

[Autoptic]

In the past, few could manage this level of stimulation. Now, every boy with an open internet connection is a virtual Caligula. Do remember all the concubine/sex slave type stuff and straight out prostitution that's gone on since history began. The current Judeo-Christian stuff in the West is relatively new. Hell, the Judaism part of that is particularly laughable considering it's fully admitted history much less any veiled Christian issues.

[invicta]

Oh agreed, on the Judeo-Christian shift, anything since the time of Abraham anyway. I think that this shift plays into the modern extreme porn, in fact. That is what makes the extremism a fantasy.