[UKsplendid]

So I was reading this description of INFJs that mentioned something interesting.



"Other INFJs report feelings of disembodiment, as though their body is independently moving through space while they watch from without."



Now I was quite shocked because that is something I get quite often, I wouldn't have expected something so specific to be mentioned in an MBTI description.

Do INTJs get this? Do other types get this? I was wondering if it might be a 4th place sensing thing.

[RBM]

Originally Posted by UKsplendid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So I was reading this description of INFJs that mentioned something interesting. "Other INFJs report feelings of disembodiment, as though their body is independently moving through space while they watch from without." Now I was quite shocked because that is something I get quite often, I wouldn't have expected something so specific to be mentioned in an MBTI description. Do INTJs get this? Do other types get this? I was wondering if it might be a 4th place sensing thing.

Do you know who
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is:

	Robert Allen Monroe (October 30, 1915–March 17, 1995) was a New York radio broadcasting executive who became known for his research into altered consciousness. His 1971 book Journeys Out of the Body is credited with popularizing the term "out-of-body experience".

His science lab which eventually become the Monroe Institute of today was manned be Dennis Mennerich and Tom Campbell. They learned OOB's (Out Of Body Experience) from RM. Tom is a self-identified INTP.

Any MBTI structure is what is called a 'little picture' perspective and the OOB phenomena is a part of the 'big picture' perspective, by definition, according to consciousness research of Tom and others.

Consciousness is responsible for all 'sensing', not the other way around :-)

[True Rune]

I wonder what the ENTJs have to say first, honestly. I've been reading this other theory..

[Monte314]

RBM's comments are very interesting.

Did any of this research involve chemical or other kinds of stimuli? These can induce dissociative states; or is something else going on here?

[Chameleon]

You want to know more about these things you should ask the 'P's as well; ease of access. I am not saying 'J's are not as able, just that it may be a bit harder for them to break from reality. RBM is the go to guy on this area, you should friend him, and learn everything he gives you; keep an open mind. RBM is a different breed of INTJ; which is a reason most INTJs go against him; but he can teach you much.

[PlungingHornets]

One time while having a lucid dream I felt myself hovering above my body. I was experimenting with sleep deprivation and that was the only time I felt anything like that.

[Monte314]

Originally Posted by Chameleon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You want to know more about these things you should ask the 'P's as well; ease of access. I am not saying 'J's are not as able, just that it may be a bit harder for them to break from reality. RBM is the go to guy on this area, you should friend him, and learn everything he gives you; keep an open mind. RBM is a different breed of INTJ; which is a reason most INTJs go against him; but he can teach you much.

Ooh... I've bent my pick with RBM. Oh, well, I guess I'll go eat some sugar and "crach out"...

[RBM]

PlatoHagel has an INTJf thread titled
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which features some of Tom's work. Much of the entries in that thread include direct quotation's of Tom's regarding terminology and concepts.

Robert Monroe's experiences were, initially, spontaneous. Fear engulfed Robert as a result. He spent a lot of effort among various medical professionals to ascertain his sanity and his health. I'd recommend RM's books to anyone who's had a spontaneous OOB type of experience.

[Chameleon]

	Originally Posted by Monte314 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ooh... I've bent my pick with RBM. Oh, well, I guess I'll go eat some sugar and "crach out"...

I did not mean to exclude you Monte
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; chemicals and there effects have (I believe) a great deal to do with supplementing these effects, as well.

For example: I find it easier to slip into these states with the help of (legal) drugs; and I am sure others have an easier time with (not so legal) drugs.

I would like to know the specific effects of these chemicals; and whether they help project a (false or true) experience in the consciousness. Though, we are already on shaky ground. As, we INTPs may be accused of: basing a theory on already theoretical means.

[RBM]

RE: Chemicals of all sorts

Sugar: A psychotropic/psychoactive drug:

	Originally Posted by Wiki
	A psychoactive drug, psychopharmaceutical, or psychotropic is a chemical substance that crosses the blood–brain barrier and acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it affects brain function, resulting in changes in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, and behavior.

In my case I have changed my diet to omit as much sugar as I can. Since sugar is so prevalent in the current food supply, it takes a lot of direct effort. I'm also a recovering alcoholic which is another point of entry for sugar issues.

To get over my 'sweet tooth' I started baking. I use frozen/fresh fruit as the closest thing to quench my sweet tooth and substitute the recipes that call for sugar with a natural sweetener, called stevia.

Tom's perspective on drugs for achieving OOB's for example, is no use whatsoever. Robert Monroe's teaching do not include drugs either. Both individuals agree the best way to achieve OOB's is a clean consciousness of drugs.

No drug use also alleviates the practical matter of determining whether the source of the OOB experience is actual or the drug.

---------- Post added 07-03-2012 at 03:46 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Chameleon
	I would like to know the specific effects of these chemicals; and whether they help project a (false or true) experience in the consciousness. Though, we are already on shaky ground. As, we INTPs may be accused of: basing a theory on already theoretical means.

Ultimately, you are the only one to judge the 'false/true' issue. Of course, it also can become s sort of baggage.

[UKsplendid]

Originally Posted by Chameleon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You want to know more about these things you should ask the 'P's as well; ease of access. I am not saying 'J's are not as able, just that it may be a bit harder for them to break from reality. RBM is the go to guy on this area, you should friend him, and learn everything he gives you; keep an open mind. RBM is a different breed of INTJ; which is a reason most INTJs go against him; but he can teach you much.

I had a very interesting conversation with RBM when I was new to the forum, he's cool, always got deep stuff to talk about.


When I put daytime out of body experiences I was being a bit too poetic lol, what I meant is a sensation that is just a bit of a mind blip. Sort of like a deja vu moment or a synchronicity in the way it throws you.

It's as if what you are seeing with your eyes is actually on a screen that you are watching and you aren't focusing on any thoughts at all, which is unusual as I normally can't stop thinking. Sometimes it lasts for 10 seconds or more. It's very odd but not on the same level as actually having an OOBE by a long shot. You just get snapped away from having your skin perceived as the barrier to the outside, it's as if you just have this screen view.

Lets keep talking about actual OOBE as well though, always fun.

[RBM]

Originally Posted by UKsplendid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I had a very interesting conversation with RBM when I was new to the forum, he's cool, always got deep stuff to talk about. When I put daytime out of body experiences I was being a bit too poetic lol, what I meant is a sensation that is just a bit of a mind blip. Sort of like a deja vu moment or a synchronicity in the way it throws you. It's as if what you are seeing with your eyes is actually on a screen that you are watching and you aren't focusing on any thoughts at all, which is unusual as I normally can't stop thinking. Sometimes it lasts for 10 seconds or more. It's very odd but not on the same level as actually having an OOBE by a long shot. You just get snapped away from having your skin perceived as the barrier to the outside, it's as if you just have this screen view. Lets keep talking about actual OOBE as well though, always fun.

Actually it sounds like a classical case of an OOB, only in the mode of 'viewing the Larger Consciousness System database' as Tom Campbell describes in his youtube video on Calgary (2/3) - to a tee !

[UKsplendid]

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Actually it sounds like a classical case of an OOB, only in the mode of 'viewing the Larger Consciousness System database' as Tom describes in his youtube video on Calgary (2/3) - to a tee !

Oh! Well in that case I'll have to look into this more!

[RBM]

	Originally Posted by UKsplendid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Oh! Well in that case I'll have to look into this more!

The distinction of whether it's an OOB data flow or not is whether you are actively asking a question in your conscious state of mind or not.

If not, then it's more likely you are just accessing your personal data flow from your higher self, which is normal operations, but at an increased bandwidth of data than you elsewise do.

I recently had such a singular experience regarding my present employment position. I was sensing activities of the job, then comparing it to known jobs in the area to determine where the job was in order to allow me to apply for it.

When I related this dynamic in more specific detail, the knowledgeable MBTf admin, Ted, analyzed that it was my intuition at work and not querying the LCS database as I made no direct request, in the form of, say, 'what if', for example.

[nashburn8]

I will stretch at work and my blood pressure in my head will drop. I then feel like I'm getting into the next dimension. It only last about 5 seconds though.

[RBM]

	Originally Posted by nashburn8 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I will stretch at work and my blood pressure in my head will drop. I then feel like I'm getting into the next dimension. It only last about 5 seconds though.

Next dimension, eh ? You must be a 'multi-world believer' then, right ?

I only know of one dimension. I do, however know of many
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. It is those that I speak of, above.

[Fecal McAngry]

I dunno if this is what I would call an "OBE". IN_Js have Si as their 8th function, and so are presumably least aware of their own corporeal selves in their normal consciousness...