[zeroemission]

i love to play chess and at my peak was a 1650 player, but felt my progress was being limited to playing lines that weren't my pure tactics style i wanted to drop & relearn new theory from books.

the problem is, no-one makes an intuitive to use program that works as efficiently as possible. i would program the software myself if the numbers and abstractions of even USING a program are more than enough at times.

sadly, the literal most efficient way for me to study chess is by creating my own books in wordpad and adding new theory including having to copy and paste lines at branches so the theory can intuitively be navigated the ONLY logical way, to me, in an indented tree like

1. e4 d5
---2. e5 f6
---2. exd5 Nf6
------3. Nf3
and so on. the dashes are there because the text editor HERE doesn't allow for indents, but you could even use graphic BRANCHES dropping down flowchart stye to make it even CLEARER. (see full of ideas on how to simplify & notcomplicateify)

then i cover the theory i constantly have to update by hand that's error prone from translation up and manually play the opening uncovering my guesses as i go and have to reset the pieces by hand for each line because THAT is the EASY way to do it because not one chess software company will listen to my ideas on how a simple chess theory editor & trainer with very useful power features not in any chess software that i know of like being able to copy & paste theory in OR out of one's books as text as well as print it out that way or the HIDEOUS, as bad as KXP figurine notation variations within' mind numbingly where the eff am i even here variations within variations way chessbase refuses to abandon) and any other common inferior to CORRECT indented trees like a programmer somewhere actually STARTED to do with tarrasch only if you could actually use it to train with, but the interface is almost exactly what i tried to pitch to that otherwise super nice chessbase programmer that is the GRANDADDY of CUSTOMER SERVICE, if not interfaces that computer haters like me can't wrap our heads around. his "pruning" method is the exact backwards of "set your books in stone & only add theory from wherever when AUTHORIZED" way that seems intuitive to me.

some iphone or whatever chess app programmer i spoke with for a minute at least listened to my ideas, but i never heard back from him.

all i want to do is play chess. i would buy just a bare bones SIMPLE interface that works like tarrasch for $100 right last century if only i could edit my theory in the browser, sort it by side of play, or even better sub-lines and have the program drill me on the theory.

i'd love to give the awesome ideas i have for more power features plus whatever goofy useless "look for every game played on august 17th 1979 or by blah blah blah blah who the eff cares? features in database programs that would make it a virtual chess "workstation" i have no use for if only someone would take it on, make a fortune off it, and give me a working copy on CD. i'd sign & notarize a waiver that i'm charging $1 for consulting fees and would even loan the dollar to ya to fuhreekin' program it! LOL

i miss chess. i just could not stand playing the closed defenses i had to play as black, even in my own favorite opening when EVERYONE started playing 2.e5. having theory that wasn't my style was an hinderence as was never studying because my way should not be the easy way what with computers and all. if the program was done right, a person could study an entire chess book's worth of theory in just an hour or two of brushing up.

you know, programmers should hire ergonomics consultants to help the dang things work the way they actually should and not just the "shortest code route possible to functional, even dysfunctional" programs that are more trouble to use than they're worth. you need idea people that don't think in numbers, but maybe at least spatially, or artistically, but definitely not logically. sure YOU know how the thing works YOU programmed it!

are there any starving programmers out there feelin' me that want to make an app i guarantee you less whiny and insistent players want that no-one is offering. i do all of my programming in plain english.

OK, there's a killer app... might put you out of work though... an interface you can use to program in plain english... OK, now make an adjustable sized box on the right size to contain the theory. that's so next century though.

[Nightmare]

'Killer App' got me all excited. Then when I read the rest I was disappointed :/

[Firebrand]

The problem is, the chess book and the engine are generally very closely tied together, such that you can't edit one without needing to alter the other. That, combined with the fact that most serious chess players aren't attempting to play chess on their phone as a replacement for Winboard with Houdini or the other hardcore engines, means that the market would be incredibly narrowed for something like this.

The closest thing to this that I know of is
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(which is free and the strongest overall engine for iPhone at max 2500 elo), which still doesn't let you do more than alter the book variety to one of three settings.

[zeroemission]

by app, i mean PC program. THIS is my telephone. i'm looking for a fully functional program. see how much i hate computers? i thought an app was just a program

i'm not looking to use chess engines EXCEPT for generating theory for the sidelines encountered in amateur games as i totally suck at positional and if some patzer trips me up in the opening and my pieces are on bad squares, i'm toast, BUT give me a tactical opportunity, and i'm not likely to miss it when i'm back up from my appaulling sub 1300s by now, but i DID spank a snotty 2100 taunting me about not being able to gambit in the stonewall defense in 15m blitz once when, after i found a square that he couldn't check me again in the 0-0-0 his queen ripped a new one in, i checked him with my queen followed by a rook takes rook check & en prise

i'd like a program along the lines of bookup, but with an intuitive interface like tarrasch which MIGHT actually be better than the paper method, especially if you can copy & paste theory, but it doesn't auto train or save theory by chapters. i can think of a lot of great additional features or ways to better implement ones that have been done before or that add power & flexibility to the program like multiple chess fonts that HAVE TO include proper USCF pieces where the pawns don't all look like chubby bishops, or change background colors. i always like low eyestrain brass amber myself.

my IDEAL program would use indented trees you can just point back to say, move #7 when you're entering a new line from a book, have YOUR book(s) set in stone with any new lines outside as new material to ADD if it's from the side you're training against (or like playing multiple lines), be able to import theory from anywhere for said "budding" (opposite of bookup pruning... don't get me started on taking a week to create a book on the scandinavian only to have it TOTALLY ruined when i tried importing my own games and that became my book.) pruning is exactly backwards to me. add the ability to study a position with at least 1 chess engine, but multiples in shootout mode would be even better and then add automated training.

i'd prefer random systematic with repeats for every line in one's book chapter until everything is brushed up on, but straight "line by line" or weighted by player's performance over the board etc. would be options for anyone preferring to study a specific way... here's a NEW idea... you could bookmark a position in a line you're training in when you decide you want to focus on just that, and train from there. random position "what's the right move?" could be another option.

any other database type features or figurine notation translation etc. would be bonus for others, but i just want a program that does the same thing i have to do on paper with an actual board and pieces because no one makes a book trainer that works right. bookup drives me nuts the counter-intuitive way it does everything.

if nothing else, could someone PLEASE tell me where to find programmers looking for projects like these? i've tried looking online and don't have the thousands of dollars needed to just hire a freelancer for a one off. i'd give my ideas away to any programmer serious about creating their own intellectual property with.

as a side note, you know programmers, you REALLY should hire people like me that are creative but despise abstractions to tell you all of the stupid things you do wrong in all of your programs that could easily be trimmed down to simpler interfaces that don't expect users to be hackers too. i hate EVERYTHING about chessbase... snotty condescending customer service that amounts to "if you don't know how to create a folder, too effing bad, it's not our job to FULLY explain the procedures in our owners' manuals... it sucks to be you computer hater", burying variations within variations in theory so it becomes totally useless and impossible to navigate and not even offering a STFU! button so you can make the opening moves YOU chose for both sides before fritz can interrupt. (i've since learned how to right click, thank you)

it drives me nuts that i've been trying and trying to get anyone who'll listen to a better idea than theirs to take it on and make it happen. i KNOW my ideas are spot on as the creator of the incomplete tarrasch interface programmed it because he hates bookup too. he just wants $20k to finish it.

maybe i should have titled this thread "anyone have $20k lying around they aren't using?"

[Firebrand]

App is generally associated with phones. Application/software is generally associated with PC's.

There is what you're asking for :
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and Arena. Look them up. But, again, to what degree they allow you to mess with their books will vary greatly, since the engine and the book are usually tied together.

[zeroemission]

i've used winboard before. i don't recall any features like what i'm looking for, especially indented trees which are a necessity to me when transcribing from a book so you can just click back on a position to start a new line.

man do i wish i didn't hate computers! i'd just program it myself and give it away as freeware