[Autumnleaf]

Is it what we have to do to fight terror? Gotta terrify smaller countries so we can feel safe? Are we only in it for the oil? Are we there to install central banks for our owners who want a larger piece of the world pie? Why are American combat boots still on the ground in the Middle East?

[Nemesis]

Modern incarnation of the imperialist 'white man's burden'.

[plotthickens]

Testosterone-fueled economic decisions.

[Tocsin]

The mid east still has a large amount of oil.

If nations there are permitted to establish oil commerce based on anything other than the U.S. Dollar, the demand for the dollar plummets, along with its imaginary value, and the United States (as well as the global corporate system it has spawned) slides down the toilet of history as quickly as the Soviet Union.

[Dangime]

Oil, plus keeping oil trading in dollars. Agreed.

[zibber]

Just money.

[Subgenius]

We fight there because it is in our interest to fight there.
1. It prevents anyone from turning into a viable threat as a regional power because of the instability.
2. It puts close to the Russian border in the south, and if there was actually someone we might trade blows with, it would be the Russians. Their ground military is regaining its strength that it lost from it's disassembled decade after the fall of the USSR. While the southern border of the old USSR isn't exactly important, it does irk Russia.
3. If we weren't fighting there, someone else would be. That area of the world is always at war. It's highly volatile. The fall of the USSR didn't help matters either. Part of the reason the US was attacked in the first place was because its intelligence community trained the attackers, which made things considerably easier for the attackers. The volatility also goes into SE Europe too, where there is a large muslim population.
4. Instability in the region also keeps Middle Eastern countries with naval capabilities from actually building navies because they need to put cash aside more to combat internal strife and deal with groundpounding issues. This fits in with the US strategy of maintaining naval control of the whole world.

[Vermillion]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just money.

^ That.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. And when you're reading the little thing below the pic that indicates the amount of profit they made and think "Holy fucking shit, that's a lot of money" just remember that the tax payers are footing that bill. War is essentially a way of funneling tax payer money into the pockets of companies that own US politicians.

So is it worth it America? Close to 1 million civilians dead and thousands of dead soldiers so that Lockheed Martin could make nearly 46 billion in 2010 alone? Not only do you go to work every day and bust your ass for 8 or more hours, making a pitiful paycheck while the CEO's above you make millions sitting on their ass, they also take a chunk of your money via taxes. Good job worker bees, keep it up and keep telling yourself that USA is #1 because it is one of the few things that can make you feel special.

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

^ That. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . And when you're reading the little thing below the pic that indicates the amount of profit they made and think "Holy fucking shit, that's a lot of money" just remember that the tax payers are footing that bill. War is essentially a way of funneling tax payer money into the pockets of companies that own US politicians. So is it worth it America? Close to 1 million civilians dead and thousands of dead soldiers so that Lockheed Martin could make nearly 46 billion in 2010 alone? Not only do you go to work every day and bust your ass for 8 or more hours, making a pitiful paycheck while the CEO's above you make millions sitting on their ass, they also take a chunk of your money via taxes. Good job worker bees, keep it up and keep telling yourself that USA is #1 because it is one of the few things that can make you feel special.

Ask the retards that voluntarily joined to serve as mercenaries for their political masters and came back missing limbs, brain damaged or hell, even both. Watch their heads explode.

Most Americans are so fucking stupid and ignorant that it's easy to pull this sort of thing off. Just feed them some simple slogans like: AMERICA IS #1, FREDUMBS!, SUPPORT TEH TROOPS! TERRRERRREERRRISTS!!!!11!. Who was it? H.L. Mencken? I believe he said something like: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." How true, how true. Just take a gander at this wretched society. Politics on a 6th grade level, with people like O-Brat and R-Money seen as serious candidates. LOL!

And just so we're clear here. This is a government/corporatist problem.

[Zsych]

I think there's a difference between 'Should we have gone in?' and 'What do we need to do, now that we've disturbed the whole area?'

Like the idea of needing to completely destroy all terrorism in Iraq lest it come back to haunt us. On one side, it likely wouldn't exist if not for our stupidity. On the other hand (where I'm not sure what the actual risk level was), letting the hatred we created fester and leaving it the tools and infrastructure to come bother us wouldn't have been a good idea either.

IMO, once we had fucked up Iraq, we need to do obvious public works and do a serious propaganda campaign to positively shift the US image, and maybe make sure that most of the public blamed Saddam for their suffering. Maybe heap on a whole bunch of false accusations, with doctored evidence, for good measure
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[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think there's a difference between 'Should we have gone in?' and 'What do we need to do, now that we've disturbed the whole area?' Like the idea of needing to completely destroy all terrorism in Iraq lest it come back to haunt us. On one side, it likely wouldn't exist if not for our stupidity. On the other hand (where I'm not sure what the actual risk level was), letting the hatred we created fester and leaving it the tools and infrastructure to come bother us wouldn't have been a good idea either. IMO, once we had fucked up Iraq, we need to do obvious public works and do a serious propaganda campaign to positively shift the US image, and maybe make sure that most of the public blamed Saddam for their suffering. Maybe heap on a whole bunch of false accusations, with doctored evidence, for good measure To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, do tell us how you're going to spin the 100s of thousands indirectly killed through economic sanctions during the 90s, into a positive.

[Ghostwheel]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it what we have to do to fight terror? Gotta terrify smaller countries so we can feel safe? Are we only in it for the oil? Are we there to install central banks for our owners who want a larger piece of the world pie? Why are American combat boots still on the ground in the Middle East?

It's telling that the "rebels" in Libya created a Western-allied bank even before Khaddafi was overthrown.

I guess without war to prop up our currency, the banking boys wouldn't be able to play fast and loose in all the ways that they do without causing a gigantic crash (one always seems to be just on the horizon these days anyway).

NATO is the "military mafia" that forces the rest of the world to honor our funny money.

[Paul Siraisi]

The middle east is the nastiest piece of work on the planet, only possibly exluding North Korea (which has the redeeming feature of being an embarassment to China).

We may have no clue how to fix that, or what we are doing there, but I understand the impulse.

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The middle east is the nastiest piece of work on the planet, only possibly exluding North Korea (which has the redeeming feature of being an embarassment to China). We may have no clue how to fix that, or what we are doing there, but I understand the impulse.

We very much have a clue as to why the US is there. It's strategy. We are there to keep the region unstable for a variety of reasons. Just because some people get pissy about some civilians dieing doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile. It's a good thing that we are there, and it has nothing to do with fighting terrorists or even muslimanity. Well at least not that much, no one wants a caliphate happening again unless it's the US ally, the Turks, and even that would go sour after they got a taste of their old power.

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ask the retards that voluntarily joined to serve as mercenaries for their political masters

Yes. If we get rid of all military, peace will ensue.

[Arcanist]

Peasants don't have interests in those regions but the political and moneyed elite do which is why I find this "we" business odd. However, the Peasant gets the honor of fueling the effort both physically and monetarily.

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Peasants don't have interests in those regions but the political and moneyed elite do which is why I find this "we" business odd. However, the Peasant gets the honor of fueling the effort both physically and monetarily.

"We" alludes to the world as a whole. It seems to be a common theme in your posts that the world will turn into magical fairy land if all the evil governments no longer had a military force.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It seems to be a common theme in your posts that the world will turn into magical fairy land if all the evil governments no longer had a military force.

Don't be ridiculous! The government is a monstrous evil entity - a vast conspiracy. Politicians are all in cahoots to beat down citizens and make secure their power. They have weekly meetings where they decide on their evil agenda. Then they go in front of the cameras and pretend to disagree on political issues as cover!

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"We" alludes to the world as a whole. It seems to be a common theme in your posts that the world will turn into magical fairy land if all the evil governments no longer had a military force.

Never claimed that.

---------- Post added 06-19-2012 at 08:40 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Don't be ridiculous! The government is a monstrous evil entity - a vast conspiracy. Politicians are all in cahoots to beat down citizens and make secure their power. They have weekly meetings where they decide on their evil agenda. Then they go in front of the cameras and pretend to disagree on political issues as cover!

Statement is too stupid to address. No one claimed a conspiracy, merely the interactions of politicians in the pursuit of their own individual self interest in a government setting.

[babsa]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Never claimed that.

Perhaps it is time for you to clarify your stance, instead of posting about the evil military. You can't condemn one thing and leave it at that - this comes across as extremely naive behavior. You obviously think the world would be a better place without military.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Statement is too stupid to address. No one claimed a conspiracy, merely the interactions of politicians in the pursuit of their own individual self interest in a government setting.

Too stupid to address. Proceeds to address.

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by Megalomania To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Too stupid to address. Proceeds to address.

Fully. Must it be spelled out for you? Try cracking a book open other than the Bible once in a while.

[Megalomania]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fully. Must it be spelled out for you? Try cracking a book open other than the Bible once in a while.

See Arcanist, the problem isn't so much that you don't like government; it's that you don't offer jack in the way of viable alternatives. Whining is fantastic, it really is, but it doesn't accomplish much.

People pursuing their self-interest?! What kind of messed up world do we live in?

[NiTe Visor]

Everything would be better without military. No fear of impending nuclear war, no money spent on bullshit. The politicians are too nearsighted to understand the benefit of funding scientific research, NASA and education. Well, they don't have interest in educating us anyway. There's gotta be a revolution coming in the next 20 years. Has to be.

They're definitely there for oil and probably the opium too.

I mean, okay...we need military for obvious reasons. We need protection but we don't need to go meddling around in other countries' affairs or invading any of them at all. The military budget is over $700 billion a year. Ridiculous. 2nd place is China at $150 billion and they have 5 times as many people. I understand the fear to deplete funding because we've pissed off so many countries, but let's get realistic.

[ImINFJ]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it what we have to do to fight terror? Gotta terrify smaller countries so we can feel safe? Are we only in it for the oil? Are we there to install central banks for our owners who want a larger piece of the world pie? Why are American combat boots still on the ground in the Middle East?

This is what the wars are really about....


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that and the fact that it's hard for the military to get promoted in peacetime....they need wars to kill of the competition for their promotions. People who love a military career MAY love an excuse for murder and mayhem, blowing things up, etc., so they want a war in order to freely exercise their violent natures without fear of going to jail.


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