[curiousgeorge01]

Pretty desperate to get some votes.

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by Ghostwheel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If there's a political move here, it's not an appeal to illegal immigrants, but to Latino voters who are already citizens:

That would be a miscalculation too. Many of the (legal) American Latinos I know don't like illegal immigrants. Every Legal Latino I can think of that I know does not like illegals and thinks they should be deported, except members of their families of course.

They tend to look down on them. I personally think they are here to try at a better life so I cut them some slack mentally. If the situations were reversed I would either be doing what they are or I would be running a cartel out of Juarez.

[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

800,000 more consumers, who will be buying vehicles, homes and running up debt with credit cards and mortgage, producing babies and in general buying shit they don't need. A capitalists' dream come true. BTW To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. So rather than bitch and moan about all these freshly minted legal consumers, maybe you should figure out how to profit from it like a good republican.

They can't consume until they have jobs... Jobs that would otherwise would be taken by Americans. If we had an excess of jobs that we needed more people to do, you might have a point. But we have 30 million unemployed who are now going to be unemployed even longer.

[larkin]

	Originally Posted by Ghostwheel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If there's a political move here, it's not an appeal to illegal immigrants, but to Latino voters who are already citizens. [...] I can't read Obama's mind, but the timing seems suspicious. Some people will trust his good intentions, others will not.

Everything is always political, but not exclusively political. The timing is right because it exposes a rift in the GOP - pro-business GOP (like Reagan, Romney and W) always tread lightly on immigration, because they need the labor. (At no point do I believe that the pro-electrified fence at the border crowd will accept that they're doing jobs Americans won't do, but that doesn't make it any less true.) Meanwhile, the elecrtified fence crowd fids that position unacceptable. They want nothing less than, well, an electrified fence. With a moat. With alligators.

So Romney is left speechless on this, basically. He can criticize Obama, and the timing, but he can't say deport them all; he doesn't believe it. (Well, he can say it; he's repeatedly said things he doesn't believe, or otherwise contradicted himself, but after a time the base, y'know, starts to not believe him.) He has to tread a middle line that will be unsatisfying to most, and dividing the GOP works heavily in Obama's favor. That it's a popular view with most Latinos also helps.

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That would be a miscalculation too. Many of the (legal) American Latinos I know don't like illegal immigrants. Every Legal Latino I can think of that I know does not like illegals and thinks they should be deported, except members of their families of course.

Which would explain why the GOP's stance on the issue is so wildly popular with Latinos...oh, wait.

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They can't consume until they have jobs... Jobs that would otherwise would be taken by Americans. If we had an excess of jobs that we needed more people to do, you might have a point. But we have 30 million unemployed who are now going to be unemployed even longer.

Again - what part of these people are already doing jobs Americans won't do, is hard to believe or understand?

If anything, by giving disadvantaged labor pools access to legal resources to combat exploitation, the move might actually increase the number of jobs that Americans can fairly compete for.

[nacht]

Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Everything is always political, but not exclusively political. The timing is right because it exposes a rift in the GOP - pro-business GOP (like Reagan, Romney and W) always tread lightly on immigration, because they need the labor. (At no point do I believe that the pro-electrified fence at the border crowd will accept that they're doing jobs Americans won't do, but that doesn't make it any less true.) Meanwhile, the elecrtified fence crowd fids that position unacceptable. They want nothing less than, well, an electrified fence. With a moat. With alligators.

This is essentially why it is smart politics, but just because it is smart politics doesn't mean it is the wrong thing to do. At this point it is about good governance and managing to accomplish anything in a bad situation.

We've been continuously seeing the situation where people are blaming President Obama because Congress won't pass something (for those that need an example, look no farther than the Log Cabin Republicans). So people were talking about immigration and how not much had been accomplished here: no DREAM act is likely to come out this year, and the Republicans are talking but not putting forward their own plan (speaking of political maneuvers).

So immigration concerns were becoming (and are) a major issue, particularly for certain segments of the population. Since Congress wasn't doing anything, the President's departments looked for what he could do on their own under their own power and directives, as opposed to via Congress (who won't do anything at all).

Now if Congress really feels that offended they can
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or
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.

Meanwhile, as you point out, it is smart politics because it puts Romney in a bit of an "etch-a-sketch" situation before there's been time to really erase the board. It's too close to the primaries (and far enough away from the general election) that he's still under the pall of how far right the primaries got (where he was competing for the crazy with people who want the alligator moats) and hasn't had a chance to cushion it or put distance from it for the general audience.

[Autumnleaf]

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which would explain why the GOP's stance on the issue is so wildly popular with Latinos...oh, wait.

Why do so many people mistake me for someone who likes the GOP? For the record, they are scumbags just like the Democrats. I think anyone who is fervently in favor of Democrats or Republicans either lacks critical thinking skills or is morally compromised.

The reason the GOP has the stance it does on illegal immigration is because the Chamber of Commerce is a 10,000 pound gorilla in the Republican party. It is a gorilla that wants cheap workers so its member companies can make more profit for small business owners. The GOP likes many illegal immigrants in the country that can be used for cheap labor. Legalizing them would make them more expensive labor. Deporting them would take away the cheap labor.

[Thrasymachus]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why do so many people mistake me for someone who likes the GOP? For the record, they are scumbags just like the Democrats. I think anyone who is fervently in favor of Democrats or Republicans either lacks critical thinking skills or is morally compromised.

Your comments here and elsewhere have always led me to put you in the muzicman group of politics.

When I see a thread created by Autumnleaf I think that it will be one of the GOP talking points, and I am rarely disappointed.

I think what the president did was just the right thing to do.

[Ghostwheel]

Originally Posted by Liz Goodwin

Obama widens lead among swing-state Latinos [....] One factor behind the incumbent's significant lead may be an increase in enthusiasm for Obama following his announcement last week that he would offer immunity from deportation to as many as 800,000 young illegal immigrants who were brought to the country as children. Fifty-eight percent of Latino voters surveyed between June 17 and 21 said they feel more enthusiastic about Obama now, compared to 9 percent who said they felt less enthusiastic about him. Overall, 60 percent of Latinos said they were "very enthusiastic" about voting in November, compared to 47 percent in a November 2011 Latino Decisions poll. While Latino voters are all U.S. citizens and not directly affected by Obama's move, previous Latino Decisions polling has shown that more than half of all registered Latino voters know someone who is undocumented and that the vast majority favor a path to legalization for illegal immigrants in the country. [....] To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

[Autumnleaf]

If Obama gains some ground with Latinos I think he will lose ground with blacks and whites. At work the other day one of my coworkers brought this up and boy was she angry. I played dumb. The other guy said, 'Well we have to do something about it. They already live here.' Then the girl got mad at him and he said she was right.
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[Ghostwheel]

Obama and Immigration The Great Pretender Throws His Base a Bone By Mike Whitney June 22, 2012 "Information Clearing House" -- Barack Obama has the worst record on immigration of any president in US history. No one else comes close. In the last 3 and a half years, Obama has rounded up, detained and deported more than 1.2 million immigrants, roughly 400,000 per year. That’s more than double the number of deportations that took place under his predecessor, George W. Bush, in the same amount of time. Obama also launched the controversial Secure Communities program, which uses local police departments to help federal authorities collect fingerprints so that victims can be watched, harassed, detained, abused and deported more easily by the Gestapo thugs at Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE]. Obama intends to make the program mandatory by 2013. Now, after nearly four years of terrorizing the immigrant community, Obama has softened his stance in order to win back the 60% of Latinos who voted for him in 2008, but who no longer trust him or approve of his reactionary policies. Last week, in a cynical political stunt that was clearly aimed at winning votes, Obama directed the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to stop the deportation of immigrants under the age of 30 who came to the U.S. before age 16 “and who do not present a risk to national security or public safety, and meet several key criteria will be considered for relief from removal from the country or from entering into removal proceedings.” Obama’s policy-reversal was intended to throw his liberal constituents a bone while putting the Republicans on the defensive on an issue that deeply divides their rank and file. (56 percent of likely Republican voters oppose the decision, although the party desperately needs the Hispanic vote to carry the 2012 elections.) Without explaining how the new policy fits with 3 and a half years of police state repression and arbitrary imprisonment, Obama breezily opined that he changed the policy because, “It’s the right thing to do,” creating the illusion that the decision was based on deeply-held convictions rather than political opportunism. [....] Links: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ; To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .