Traps, ok or not? - Page 4

**RedN** · 06-09-2012, 09:36 AM

The fear of "The Talk", is understandable. Ive heard stories of relationships being almost perfect until the trans meets up with the man in a restaurant and... tells him and he simply stood up, didnt say a word, and just left.

That's the good one too, coz sometimes theyd even get physical with you and might even hurt you. I've met with two guys (them not knowing, coz I was still a normal guy then), told me of their experiences. One time him and his friends were going out and met this trans, then they invited her to hang out with them then when they found out what she... really was, they beat her up in the car. The same goes with the other, when he got to the motel he just hit her.

Even my dad kept warning me back then to be careful, coz.... youll just never now how men would react to this coz.... they can just be soooo freaked out that theyd lose it.

And of course theres the extreme cases when the trans actually ends up being killed so.... yeah... i would say the fear can be legitimate but...

It shouldnt prevent us from having a normal life? Isnt that a part of... the american life? to live without this fear? i know it sounds so bullshit stupid but... you cant let fear rule your life and miss on the things that you deserve as a human because of it.

Me though, even if my doctor tells me not ot tell too early, once i feel the guy is harboring feelings for me, i just feel compelled to tell. maybe its a selfish reason too but... if hes offering love, i would like to know if its real too and how far it can go, if its enough to.... get past that right?

On the SRS, sex reassignment surgery, for women going male not its bad. for men going female - you have a clit, you can cum with it, you can be fucked... whats not good with it? it even has the weird wings that chicks have down there. men who have fucked it, actually enjoy it. so... i really dont see whats not enough with that hahahahahaha

**Hariar** · 06-09-2012, 10:26 AM

	Originally Posted by Anhedonic Lake To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You may be interested in reading this. It's pretty clear cut. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That is of course vital information, but if that were the end of the story, there would be no desire for the relevant surgery in the first place.

**zibber** · 06-09-2012, 10:31 AM

With all the bullshit hype about what the ideal vagina is and how vaginae should not look, you'd think one which has been tailor made from scratch would appeal to these fucking monkeys.

**babsa** · 06-09-2012, 10:57 AM

If their goal is to attempt to deceive guys into having sexual relations with them than i find that behavior to be despicable. I only find "traps" to be attractive because i am attracted to females, not because i am attracted to females with penises.

**MechanicalSun** · 06-09-2012, 11:09 AM

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If their goal is to attempt to deceive guys into having sexual relations with them than i find that behavior to be despicable. I only find "traps" to be attractive because i am attracted to females, not because i am attracted to females with penises.

Yeah, it might cause
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**Anhedonic Lake** · 06-09-2012, 11:15 AM

	Originally Posted by Hariar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That is of course vital information, but if that were the end of the story, there would be no desire for the relevant surgery in the first place.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

**Hariar** · 06-09-2012, 11:26 AM

	Originally Posted by Anhedonic Lake To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That makes no sense whatsoever.

I am of course talking about the rest of the body. The concepts of 'man' and 'woman' go beyond just the brain.

Valiyn · 06-09-2012, 11:53 AM

That is more idealism than realism. While there is a great span within what one traditionally would call 'male' and 'female', it is my understanding that the physical differences between 'trans females' and 'natural females' still prove significant even when compared to the natural intra-sex variation. In addition, it is also my understanding that sex change surgery is hardly perfect at this point (thinking of construction of genitalia in particular).


	Most of these differences would still remain after a sex change surgery. Some aspects might still be part of the personality etc. etc.; it's complicated.

Hariar, I want to see some sources cited because these claims are bullshit. Trans and intersexed females (news flash: transsexuality falls under the intersexed umbrella as it's own category with the discovery of how important a sex organ the brain is) are indistinguishable from cis females. They're all natural females, they all inherent the same part of the spectrum, and they can all show the same "signs" of one another (e.g. cis females can have XY chromosomes, intersexed females can be mistaken for "males", and trans females can have a more "feminine" voice then anyone else).

**Hariar** · 06-09-2012, 02:41 PM

	Originally Posted by Valiyn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They're all natural females, they all inherent the same part of the spectrum

Sources? How do you define 'same'?

It sounds as if you're saying that on the spectrum between 'male' and 'female', there is a gap in the middle.

**Zombicide** · 06-09-2012, 02:59 PM

A trap sounds like a pleasant surprise to me. Whip it out!

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Please for the love of God explain what you mean when you say "trap". I am not going to do a web search.

I believe one is suppose to use inference.

**JSmileS** · 06-09-2012, 03:50 PM

Sure is 4chan in here.

I gave it a thought in the past but I'm pretty sure I don't like penis.

**AlfredSchnittke** · 06-09-2012, 04:16 PM

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	With all the bullshit hype about what the ideal vagina is and how vaginae should not look, you'd think one which has been tailor made from scratch would appeal to these fucking monkeys.

That's kind of true.

I wonder if a survey was done if it would turn out that men actually do prefer pre-fab vulvas (on average) to the bio-formed ones.

One would actually think so!

Valiyn · 06-09-2012, 05:40 PM

	Originally Posted by Hariar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sources? How do you define 'same'? It sounds as if you're saying that on the spectrum between 'male' and 'female', there is a gap in the middle.

There is no gap in the middle, but trans and intersex don't make up the middle. We're spread out just like cisgenders are and actually are not pooled around the middle like is assumed.

And yea, sources.

**John F Kennedy** · 06-09-2012, 10:00 PM

I don't see how any person can be a trap. A person is a person. Traps are: 1. mechanical devices used for the purpose of catching living creatures; 2. devised situations set up for effect not intended by the trapee. So, a half-transgendered person can in fact trap a person if she/he has the intention to, but in him/herself cannot be a trap. So the incorrect practice of calling someone a trap is based on reifying the person, as well as conflating him/her with a negative intention/action that he/she may not have. Both are inimical to the dignity of the person.

**babsa** · 06-09-2012, 11:57 PM

	Originally Posted by John F Kennedy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, a half-transgendered person can in fact trap a person if she/he has the intention to, but in him/herself cannot be a trap. So the incorrect practice of calling someone a trap is based on reifying the person, as well as conflating him/her with a negative intention/action that he/she may not have. Both are inimical to the dignity of the person.

So as long as a person has the intention to have sexual relations with someone, despite what the other person's beliefs are, they are not doing anything wrong? So the "trap" would have malignant intentions in order for them to be doing something wrong?

**Indubitably** · 06-09-2012, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Valiyn
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Hariar, I want to see some sources cited because these claims are bullshit. Trans and intersexed females (news flash: transsexuality falls under the intersexed umbrella as it's own category with the discovery of how important a sex organ the brain is) are indistinguishable from cis females. They're all natural females, they all inherent the same part of the spectrum, and they can all show the same "signs" of one another (e.g. cis females can have XY chromosomes, intersexed females can be mistaken for "males", and trans females can have a more "feminine" voice then anyone else).

I may not agree with Hariar, but all your reasoning does here is force a symantic shell game. Its not about which word we choose, or even how we choose to define that word, because ultimately the word is just a place holder for patterns governing a reproductive strategy that is readily observable and frequently represented across a vast diversity of life forms ranging from plants, to insects, to mammals, and yes, to humans too. We don't have to use the word "female" to describe the XX member of the species, but all this does is leave the pattern to some other arbitrarily chosen name. To suggest that there is no measurable physiological difference between an individual who was born in a male body with a female mind (post-op or otherwise), and an individual who was born in a female body with a female mind, then to demand a source stating the contrary, is to present to him a silver platter bearing the entirely valid option of responding to you by pointing out the window and saying, "knock yourself out".

If your point is that the extent of sexual dimorphism in the human species is grossly over exaggerated by popular culture, then simply say as much. Because there is a veritable plethora of species that display sexual dimorphism to a degree that makes human sexual dimorphism look like a joke; at which point you are the one pointing out the window.

**John F Kennedy** · 06-10-2012, 07:56 AM

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So as long as a person has the intention to have sexual relations with someone, despite what the other person's beliefs are, they are not doing anything wrong? So the "trap" would have malignant intentions in order for them to be doing something wrong?

By definition, setting a trap involves an intention to trap, in mechanical traps and in situational traps.

I would just go by common sense here: it is unlikely that a half-transitioned person would initiate sex with a person that clearly has a mentality that would strongly be against this situation unless the 1/2 transitioned person wanted it to be a trap. Normally, they are hoping that the other person gets over it and continues having sex, so... not a trap.

---------- Post added 06-10-2012 at 12:12 PM ----------

I am thinking about it more and I acknowledge there is something like "sexually trapping" someone in a state of unwanted lust, which can happen with people of all sexes and orientations, so this aspect of the definition of a trap is something that would be good to discuss.

**babsa** · 06-10-2012, 10:03 AM

	Originally Posted by John F Kennedy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	By definition, setting a trap involves an intention to trap, in mechanical traps and in situational traps.

A trap in this thread means a male that poses as a female (successfully).


	I would just go by common sense here: it is unlikely that a half-transitioned person would initiate sex with a person that clearly has a mentality that would strongly be against this situation unless the 1/2 transitioned person wanted it to be a trap. Normally, they are hoping that the other person gets over it and continues having sex, so... not a trap.

You are assuming. Why do you find this unlikely? It seems like you are simply arguing against the labeling of a trap, and not against the morality of deceiving someone (which is what this thread is about). You did not answer my question:


	So as long as a person has the intention to have sexual relations with someone, despite what the other person's beliefs are, they are not doing anything wrong? So the "trap" would have malignant intentions in order for them to be doing something wrong?

I find it odd that you quoted me, yet you did not really address my point at all.

**Mind Marauder** · 06-10-2012, 10:31 AM

I'm attracted to femininity, so if a transgender individual is convincing enough to be considered a trap, chances are I'm going to be sexually attracted to that person (obviously taking into account my preference for certain attributes, mental and physical). I'm not averse to a penis on a female looking individual with female mannerisms. As well, I would not necessarily have a problem performing oral sex on them and/or having sex with them. However, I am not attracted to masculine men and I would never have sex with a masculine man. This leads me to attempt to classify my sexuality within the big three sexual "domains": heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual. Such an attempt usually ends with me scratching my head, and giving up.

**AlfredSchnittke** · 06-10-2012, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mind Marauder
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I'm attracted to femininity, so if a transgender individual is convincing enough to be considered a trap, chances are I'm going to be sexually attracted to that person (obviously taking into account my preference for certain attributes, mental and physical). I'm not averse to a penis on a female looking individual with female mannerisms. As well, I would not necessarily have a problem performing oral sex on them and/or having sex with them. However, I am not attracted to masculine men and I would never have sex with a masculine man. This leads me to attempt to classify my sexuality within the big three sexual "domains": heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual. Such an attempt usually ends with me scratching my head, and giving up.

Does a female penis taste different than a male penis, I wonder?

stasis · 06-10-2012, 12:32 PM

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wonder if a survey was done if it would turn out that men actually do prefer pre-fab vulvas (on average) to the bio-formed ones. One would actually think so!

Medical science isn't quite there. Looks like mutilation.

**babsa** · 06-10-2012, 12:48 PM

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Medical science isn't quite there. Looks like mutilation.

I took a look at the work of a pretty well-known (apparently) sex reassignment surgeon and they looked pretty convincing. I think that one of the things that they have not been too successful in is making a very deep vagina, iirc they said the surgery commonly yields 4.5 inches.

stasis · 06-10-2012, 12:52 PM

	Originally Posted by babsa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I took a look at the work of a pretty well-known (apparently) sex reassignment surgeon and they looked pretty convincing.

Are you a virgin?

**Mind Marauder** · 06-10-2012, 01:02 PM

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Does a female penis taste different than a male penis, I wonder?

Haha, I wouldn't know, but still an interesting question (one that I wouldn't entirely mind doing some first hand "research" to illuminate). I would imagine that a trap/transwoman would be more inclined to use body lotions/oils or more fragrant soaps.

So the answer is: Yes.

**babsa** · 06-10-2012, 01:21 PM

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Are you a virgin?

Yes. It doesn't take a rock-climber to know what a mountain looks like, so i hardly see where you are going with this.

06-09-2012, 09:36 AM	#76
RedN Member [11%] MBTI: ESFP Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 442	The fear of "The Talk", is understandable. Ive heard stories of relationships being almost perfect until the trans meets up with the man in a restaurant and... tells him and he simply stood up, didnt say a word, and just left. That's the good one too, coz sometimes theyd even get physical with you and might even hurt you. I've met with two guys (them not knowing, coz I was still a normal guy then), told me of their experiences. One time him and his friends were going out and met this trans, then they invited her to hang out with them then when they found out what she... really was, they beat her up in the car. The same goes with the other, when he got to the motel he just hit her. Even my dad kept warning me back then to be careful, coz.... youll just never now how men would react to this coz.... they can just be soooo freaked out that theyd lose it. And of course theres the extreme cases when the trans actually ends up being killed so.... yeah... i would say the fear can be legitimate but... It shouldnt prevent us from having a normal life? Isnt that a part of... the american life? to live without this fear? i know it sounds so bullshit stupid but... you cant let fear rule your life and miss on the things that you deserve as a human because of it. Me though, even if my doctor tells me not ot tell too early, once i feel the guy is harboring feelings for me, i just feel compelled to tell. maybe its a selfish reason too but... if hes offering love, i would like to know if its real too and how far it can go, if its enough to.... get past that right? On the SRS, sex reassignment surgery, for women going male not its bad. for men going female - you have a clit, you can cum with it, you can be fucked... whats not good with it? it even has the weird wings that chicks have down there. men who have fucked it, actually enjoy it. so... i really dont see whats not enough with that hahahahahaha
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06-09-2012, 10:31 AM	#78
zibber Core Member [407%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,288	With all the bullshit hype about what the ideal vagina is and how vaginae should not look, you'd think one which has been tailor made from scratch would appeal to these fucking monkeys.
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06-09-2012, 10:57 AM	#79
babsa Veteran Member [67%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,689	If their goal is to attempt to deceive guys into having sexual relations with them than i find that behavior to be despicable. I only find "traps" to be attractive because i am attracted to females, not because i am attracted to females with penises.
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06-09-2012, 03:50 PM	#86
JSmileS New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 70	Sure is 4chan in here. I gave it a thought in the past but I'm pretty sure I don't like penis.
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06-09-2012, 10:00 PM	#89
John F Kennedy Member [36%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,461	I don't see how any person can be a trap. A person is a person. Traps are: 1. mechanical devices used for the purpose of catching living creatures; 2. devised situations set up for effect not intended by the trapee. So, a half-transgendered person can in fact trap a person if she/he has the intention to, but in him/herself cannot be a trap. So the incorrect practice of calling someone a trap is based on reifying the person, as well as conflating him/her with a negative intention/action that he/she may not have. Both are inimical to the dignity of the person.
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06-10-2012, 10:31 AM	#94
Mind Marauder Member [13%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 529	I'm attracted to femininity, so if a transgender individual is convincing enough to be considered a trap, chances are I'm going to be sexually attracted to that person (obviously taking into account my preference for certain attributes, mental and physical). I'm not averse to a penis on a female looking individual with female mannerisms. As well, I would not necessarily have a problem performing oral sex on them and/or having sex with them. However, I am not attracted to masculine men and I would never have sex with a masculine man. This leads me to attempt to classify my sexuality within the big three sexual "domains": heterosexual, bisexual, and homosexual. Such an attempt usually ends with me scratching my head, and giving up.
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