[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by MyotisLucifugus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In all seriousness, I've seen the woman-with-the-douchebag scenario play out a number of times and I can't make any sense of it myself. Seems pretty counterproductive to me, but there must be at least a small percentage of people who cannot function without a minimum of drama in their lives. The more I spend time in public, the higher that percentage of people seems to be. Who knows.

Wow a one of the women around here finally admits it!

I've noticed segments of the female population liking them (usually the girls who dress to please), and it's usually the segments that guys want to hook up with which is why I think men notice it more.

On the other hand, I notice another segment of the population who likes a good balance of a-hole with nice guy.

I'm def more on the nice guy side but I don't have the passive aggressiveness that girls here are talking about. Usually I'm pretty direct.

[Shahira]

I think some women are in love with the whole bad boy thing. They probably want a dickhead who's only nice to them. Which rarely works out. My friends and I had a conversation about this before. One said that a bad guy wants a girl that's good to everyone, but bad to him and a good girl wants a bad guy that's an arsehole to everyone but good to her.

[MacGuffin]

	Originally Posted by Samia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think some women are in love with the whole bad boy thing. They probably want a dickhead who's only nice to them. Which rarely works out. My friends and I had a conversation about this before. One said that a bad guy wants a girl that's good to everyone, but bad to him and a good girl wants a bad guy that's an arsehole to everyone but good to her.

Sometimes it's the belief of the woman she can change him. A whole "I'm the one that tamed him and made him good!" fantasy that never works out.

[Bluestreak]

I've seen this situation more times than I can possibly remember, and I personally believe that very little can be generalized because each instance was too unique. The only glaring similarity I found is the fact that each woman had self-esteem not much better than that of a doormat. That is not at all attractive in my opinion. Women of this ilk are simply doing me the favor of removing themselves from the eligible pool. They also tend to become the butt of whispered jokes and other observations as people witness her acts of lunacy to please a man who cares pitifully little.

[MyotisLucifugus]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wow a one of the women around here finally admits it!

Well, for the sake of complete disclosure, I see men doing this fairly frequently as well. The thread was about women who go for assholes, so I responded with that framing in mind, but some of my male coworkers and close friends appear to have raging bitch addictions that they cannot break either, hence my saying that a percentage of people as a whole enjoy having conflict in their lives.

I have a friend who loves asshole guys so much she claims to have a Pavlovian vaginal response to the scent of vinegar and water. It's amusing, but I've seen her put a lot of emotional investment into guys I would rather masturbate with a Brillo pad than have sex with.

I have a coworker, male (21) who just got into his first relationship with another coworker, female (20), who was 19 when they first started dating. She's a raging attention whore, wears thongs under her workpants (which are baggy as hell and fall down the moment she bends over to do anything, something I highly suspect she planned in advance), tells other coworkers about all the guys at work "trying to have sex with her" (even when they're barely speaking to her), is "bipolar" and punches him in the face when she's angry. He absolutely will not leave her, even when he winds up flying into the store on his off time to look for someone to stay with so he won't have to go home to her, blood running out of his ear and down his neck. She once hit him in the face twelve times in the middle of a WalMart because he told her not to spend $5 on some bargain bin DVD and save her money instead, and another coworker has had to pull her off of him at parties. I've complained to management about her, but seeing as how she's tiny and flirty and appears harmless nobody wants to do anything about her. If it were up to me, they'd never find her ass under the all the lye I'd like to dump on her.

For every example of a woman I know putting up with tons of horseshit, I know a guy who does the same damn thing. Over the years I've just come to the conclusion that people aren't worth deep investment into until you know their character, which is why so many people who refer to me as a friend are only acquaintances or colleagues in my eyes. Disappointing but necessary.

[Still Standing]

Women who don't love and respect themselves get involved with men who won't love and respect them either. Why would they do otherwise?

	Originally Posted by Bluestreak To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've seen this situation more times than I can possibly remember, and I personally believe that very little can be generalized because each instance was too unique. The only glaring similarity I found is the fact that each woman had self-esteem not much better than that of a doormat.

There you go.

[ManWithNoName]

I think everyone is kind of overthinking this a bit.

I think that for both sexes when people end up in a kind of unhealthy relationship or seem to only find themselves in unhealthy relationships it's because they are surrounded with low quality people (who are also much easier to get into relationships as they have less stanards for themselves and others) and simply do not want to put forth the effort to try and find higher quality people as that would invovle work and the consideration that they may actually need to improve themselves to be more marketable to a higher quality person.

They would rather just be in a relationship with a lower quality person and try to make or fix that person into what they really want instead of doing the hard work to actually seek it out.

Or you know, just complain about it but never actually make a move to change what they are doing.

Eventually people learn. Or not.

[curiousgeorge01]

	Originally Posted by MyotisLucifugus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, for the sake of complete disclosure, I see men doing this fairly frequently as well. The thread was about women who go for assholes, so I responded with that framing in mind, but some of my male coworkers and close friends appear to have raging bitch addictions that they cannot break either, hence my saying that a percentage of people as a whole enjoy having conflict in their lives.

Fair enough. I think the reason men complain about it more is b/c women are so vocal about wanting a good guy and hook up with a-holes while men never say anything about wanting a good girl. Also men tend to look at women as more vulnerable physically and emotionally so it appears more stupid on their part.

[Dru]

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Women who don't love and respect themselves get involved with men who won't love and respect them either. Why would they do otherwise?

i don't think it has much to do with that. i think it has even less to do with loving abuse, daddy issues, or being a pathological people-pleaser. women tend to flock to men who display dominant characteristics - or what appears to be so. really, image is all that matters at the point of initial attraction. rebellious and, as is the case, somewhat narcissistic behavior portrays the idea of the epitome of self-confidence; that one is so assured of one's rightness or success that one doesn't 'need' to go with the status quo, that one is more fulfilled in following one's own path. really, it's a display of leadership qualities, just not in a very affable individual (as per the assumption of the thread; "assholes").

it doesn't really translate if you're also a socially inept idiot. a charismatic 'douchebag' can be very successful with women given these principles. of course if you take 'charismatic' out of the equation, it fails.

i understand the butthurt over this. it's a flaw in our thinking as a species, that the people who talk loudest are the ones who have something of worth to say. it's totally absurd. but we got this far somehow, and it's not because everybody took the time to really get to know one another before bumping uglies.

---------- Post added 06-05-2012 at 11:24 AM ----------

Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think everyone is kind of overthinking this a bit. I think that for both sexes when people end up in a kind of unhealthy relationship or seem to only find themselves in unhealthy relationships it's because they are surrounded with low quality people (who are also much easier to get into relationships as they have less stanards for themselves and others) and simply do not want to put forth the effort to try and find higher quality people as that would invovle work and the consideration that they may actually need to improve themselves to be more marketable to a higher quality person. They would rather just be in a relationship with a lower quality person and try to make or fix that person into what they really want instead of doing the hard work to actually seek it out. Or you know, just complain about it but never actually make a move to change what they are doing. Eventually people learn. Or not.

quoteunquote assholes can be found littering every rung of the social ladder, if you consider an asshole to be someone who treats their SO poorly and/or takes them for granted. or, regardless of actual life success in other areas, do you consider a high-quality person to be anybody who carries out only 'healthful' romantic relationships?

[ZerroDefex]

	Originally Posted by MacGuffin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sometimes it's the belief of the woman she can change him. A whole "I'm the one that tamed him and made him good!" fantasy that never works out.

Such women are always the ones who end up broken in the end. I remember a girl in a psych course many years ago who actually said in front of the whole class that she'd date a guy like the one we were discussing so she could change him. Cue a lot of silent stares from the men all thinking "oh really?"

	Originally Posted by MyotisLucifugus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, for the sake of complete disclosure, I see men doing this fairly frequently as well. The thread was about women who go for assholes, so I responded with that framing in mind, but some of my male coworkers and close friends appear to have raging bitch addictions that they cannot break either, hence my saying that a percentage of people as a whole enjoy having conflict in their lives.

Just like how some men have a "white knight" complex for damaged women there are also some who think that they're going to tame a shrew. Good luck with that.

[Shadizar]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most of these theories, provided by young males, are self-aggrandizing dung. If you want the answer, read up on ACOA proliferation.

Adult Children Of Alcoholics?

You mean that generation of people who grew up with single moms? No, two generations, X and Y generations; and working on the third. Yes, I can see where this is going... well no, not really. It's the patriarchy that made these moms single and stuck with low income jobs; that must be it.

[Minerva]

A woman who has little or no self respect/self esteem allows men to treat her like this. There are more women who feel this way about themselves than you realize.

[UKsplendid]

	Originally Posted by MyotisLucifugus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	there must be at least a small percentage of people who cannot function without a minimum of drama in their lives.

I laughed at this, definitely. I think it's more than a small percentage.

[zibber]

I wish there were more people on here who don't get their view of the world from sitcoms and movies.

[squarebox]

Bottom line : Dumb people are dumb.

[LifesEcstasy]

Because they are too inexperienced to shed guys as quickly as they should when the crap behaviour starts. They cling to this....

But you don't know him like I do and he really loves me.

It takes the average female till 30yrs old (me included) to start seeing the patterns develop and know where it's going. Most women hang out too long in dead-end relationships in the vain hope that it's suddenly going to change. Idealism is nice, but you've got to be able to spot when it's going nowhere.

[sircockburn]

I don't get it.

I like the guys I like. And they happen to be quiet, gentle, sensitiive types.

I'm simply happiest with them. There's mutual respect, appreciation, and they don't fight me for the driver's seat. I kind of have a protective instinct, too. And their calm is so peaceful.

Of course, my friends all sputter and laugh at my choice of men, and say I could do "better". Well, when I'm with someone, I consider him to be the BEST, so they can go fuck right on off.

But the one boyfriend I did have who met their manliness standards turned out to be a psychotic, jealous control freak with violent tendencies.

Society's not dating my guy, *I* am. And I'm not at all attracted to alpha types at all.

The more passive and tender the guy is, the more I want him. When I see some hairgelled, loud frat doosh, I get turned off.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Dru To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	women tend to flock to men who display dominant characteristics - or what appears to be so. really, image is all that matters at the point of initial attraction.

Sure, but wouldn't a woman with healthy self-esteem be attracted to the type of "alpha male" who uses his social skills and builds alliances (i.e. a leader who convinces) to succeed rather than one who dominates and intimidates others (i.e. a ruler who imposes his will)?

As if the only choices available were "asshole" and "nice guy".

[Fox]

My first thought was Everybody poops so shouldn't they get assholes.

Why do woman get assholes & not good guys?

Simple they are groomed by society to look for males with more desirable traits. Ambitious, Confident and are Successful are among the top ones. The prize to get is the leader not the follower.

The Assholes possess those traits and they're also arrogant, selfish and don't care who gets hurt. They are an Alpha male just the bad version of one. Some women are just so blinded by the image of the Alpha male that they fail to see when he's the Asshole version of one.

[Uber10]

Too much TV?

[LaoTzu]

	Originally Posted by MyotisLucifugus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Seems pretty counterproductive to me, but there must be at least a small percentage of people who cannot function without a minimum of drama in their lives.

Agreed.
These People cannot help themselves from doing dumb shit.

People who invite douchebags into their life, deseve what they get.

[Zsych]

I think that someone who is friendly to everyone, isn't likely to commit to you exclusively. If someone who has decent value and commits to noone, can be made to open up and commit to you, then you have a worthwhile long term partner that can probably be trusted to not leave you for other people easily.

... on the minus side, until he does, things are going to be unpleasant - and he might never open up.

[psychosylocibin]

I have never experienced stable, close, and intelligent female friends of mine falling in the "asshole" trap. This seems to indicate to me that the type of girl I would date would not actively date assholes expecting commitment (again I know intelligent female friends that fuck assholes but won't commit but that is different).

I guess from my experience, the type of girl us INTJS want is not going to really fall into the asshole trap as much. If she is, she's not good for you. Its a sign of emotional immaturity. the only reason why said female would be seeing an asshole is if she is just fucking him with no serious commitment or she is young.

[Todespinguin]

I think it is the 'S'. I think when a girl or boy relate on sensing as function to gather information they get very easily humbugged.
I just have to think on my cousin (male). I can make him very angry with my words and calm again. It is insane how affectionate he is for insults (in instance) and in the same way for praising. Well, I think that wields a vast potential of manipulation. But I do not know much about manipulation yet, so I can not elaborate here.

Oh and lemme add why it is that the girl gets only assholes and the boys do not so often:
1. It is rather common that there are more boys whirr around a girl than vice versa.
2. Most girls look for long term relationships. I read that their brain is less able to distinguish between love and sex since their brain is physically different structured in this way plus they are driven through evolution to bond socially to the man of her kids to her (yes, even when you do not have kids yet). Because she is more vulnerable when pregnant and when she is nursing the baby. Since the man does not look for this bond always because he is not trained by evolution to do so. Evolution seems to care about surviving and not about the emotions of an individual.
And I read that oxytocin, what shall be the cause for the social bonding, is usually decreasing and gets to a really low level after 2-4 years. Scientist say it is because the children became autonomous enough and the man is not necessary anymore and can 'go on'.
Yeah and when the relationship is based on sex it is dopamin what holds it up. But dopamin doesn't last long, but feels more intense compared to oxytocin. Whilst oxytocin lasts longer.

[leafylampshade]

A lot of assholes don't seem like assholes at first, especially if they've got their eye on a specific woman. The woman might be longing for attention and true intimacy and is more likely to be blindsided if this guy gives her what she wants up front. The distinction between physical and emotional intimacy can easily get muddled and confusing. But it's up to the woman to recognize when this is happening and extricate herself from the situation before it gets too far along, because The Asshole Man certainly doesn't have her best interests at heart and will keep taking advantage of her as long as she allows it.

Some women are just really afraid of being alone, and will put up with assholes because of that. They'd rather have that than nothing, and their self-esteem gets dragged down along with it so they stick with the devil they know. It's easy to dismiss these women as stupid or naive, but it's a lot more complicated than that - often people really don't know what they're getting into until they're in the thick of it.