[Tactical Panda]

Within this context, I don't mean understand in the absolute sense. I mean understand in terms of where thought and belief in its limited measure match up with the real emperical deal in all its long term complexity, subtlety and depth.

From your experience which is the type least able to correctly and accurately understand the INTJ type? Why do you think this is the case - what is your reasoning?

I'd probably have to do by what has been communicated and the assumptions employed by the communicator behind whatever they have been saying. Not that I think they are the worst, but in my experience ISTJs seem actually quite good at it - what they are able to say is quite solid with both theory and emperical observations. Although I wasn't really expecting anything of it I found it suprising. Most other types, perhaps roughly half of the types, seem to pale in comparison to them in this area.

I'm not sure of the least able type. Most of them seem a mixed bag, and perhaps its just a matter of the people who know what is going on speaking up less compared to those who don't, but the best bet may be the really old INTJs for understanding INTJs in depth.

Or you could describe the type that you have found most able to understand INTJs well. Its your call, but don't get it mixed up with the poll.

[zergonipal]

Anecdotally and personally? ISFJs. They seem to become irritated by non-conformity and questioning of established beliefs/traditions, and judge situations and arguments emotionally rather than logically. This is pretty much the opposite of how INTJs function.

[MrFlaneur]

its easier to look down than it is to look up. esfj

[scorpiomover]

Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Within this context, I don't mean understand in the absolute sense. I mean understand in terms of where thought and belief in its limited measure match up with the real emperical deal in all its long term complexity, subtlety and depth. From your experience which is the type least able to correctly and accurately understand the INTJ type? Why do you think this is the case - what is your reasoning?

Not sure.

But if I had to guess, then I would say INTPs, by experience.

We think that we should be able to understand you, because we are both big thinkers, both highly intuitive, and both are introverted. But in reality, we argue and disagree with INTJs, and vice versa, probably more than any other type, from what I have seen. We struggle to comprehend INTJs with far, far more difficulty than even ISTJs, and that is really saying something.

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Or you could describe the type that you have found most able to understand INTJs well.

Other INTJs. No-one seems to understand them, anywhere near as well as they understand each other.

[reckful]

Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Not sure. But if I had to guess, then I would say INTPs, by experience. We think that we should be able to understand you, because we are both big thinkers, both highly intuitive, and both are introverted. But in reality, we argue and disagree with INTJs, and vice versa, probably more than any other type, from what I have seen. We struggle to comprehend INTJs with far, far more difficulty than even ISTJs, and that is really saying something.

That would help explain how unusual it is to find an INTP at INTJforum.

I think I'd pick the ESFs.

[AnnaMolly]

According to function theory, there's a general rather clear-cut divide between Fe & Ti users and Fi & Te users. INTP's are among the former and INTJ's among the latter, so that is probably part of the reason why there commonly seems to be some sort of misunderstanding between these types.


In general, I'd say ESFJ. It has been my experience that if you change all the letters except for the P/J preference, you get the type that you're least likely to get along with.
And picturing the two types, I see little to no common ground for INTJ and ESFJ. Generally speaking, of course. There's always room for exceptions.

[Fecal McAngry]

Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Within this context, I don't mean understand in the absolute sense. I mean understand in terms of where thought and belief in its limited measure match up with the real emperical deal in all its long term complexity, subtlety and depth. From your experience which is the type least able to correctly and accurately understand the INTJ type? Why do you think this is the case - what is your reasoning? I'd probably have to do by what has been communicated and the assumptions employed by the communicator behind whatever they have been saying. Not that I think they are the worst, but in my experience ISTJs seem actually quite good at it - what they are able to say is quite solid with both theory and emperical observations. Although I wasn't really expecting anything of it I found it suprising. Most other types, perhaps roughly half of the types, seem to pale in comparison to them in this area. I'm not sure of the least able type. Most of them seem a mixed bag, and perhaps its just a matter of the people who know what is going on speaking up less compared to those who don't, but the best bet may be the really old INTJs for understanding INTJs in depth. Or you could describe the type that you have found most able to understand INTJs well. Its your call, but don't get it mixed up with the poll.

Look at ENIGMA, in your case, the ISFJ, in my case, the ISTP:


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[thebrainpolice]

Understand in what way? If you mean the type least likely to understand INTJ behavior (like wanting to nerd out on the internet rather than party at some nightclub) then probably ESFx. If you mean understand in terms of communication, then I don't think type matters that much. Based on my experience on the forum there are lots of INTJs and INTPs who have very different communication styles despite being the same type. There are about half a dozen regular posters on this forum that I have a hard time understanding and they're all NTs save one. I rarely have that problem with the INFJs here despite having nothing in common with them (based on cognitive function theory). I can't really speak for my interactions in real life though. I'm not even completely sure what type my own parents are, let alone people I barely know.

[passenger]

Wow, I'm quite surprised by the ESFJ result

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by passenger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wow, I'm quite surprised by the ESFJ result

I'd put them a close second.

The reason ISFJ is the INTJ's "enigma" is because their dominant function (Si) is the 8th function of the INTJ, their aux (Fe) is the INTJ's 7th, etc.

With ESFJ it's flipped...

I personally find my in-person relationships with ISTPs filled with a great deal of tension and distrust, despite sometimes admiring them from afar...I mean I'm a huge Steve Ovett fan (interviewed here following the interview with INFJ archrival Sebastian Coe:

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) but I don't know how well we'd get on in person, based on past experience.

[Arguendo]

	Originally Posted by reckful To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That would help explain how unusual it is to find an INTP at INTJforum.

I've always wondered if it is harder for an INTP to understand and INTJ, or vice versa? By understanding, I mean really get into the brain of the other person and see things from their perspective.


To answer the OP's question, I would say xSFJ. But I am more biased towards ISFJ because my mother is one, and she drives me nuts (no pun intended).

[Samson86]

just from personal experience ESFJ's they are so obnoxious sometimes and do not like to think about the bigger picture.

And can really disregard what others think right off the bat.

[Lilie]

I don't/can't really distinguish between the ESxx types. I get that far and give up, just like they give up on understanding me once they come to the conclusion that I'm "quiet".

[BuShinJu]

	Originally Posted by Samson86 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And can really disregard what others think right off the bat.

I'll second ESFJ's


- "Meh meh meh meh, I do this, I do that, meh meh meh, useless barely related annecdote, meh meh meh, captain obvious observation".

- "urgh blegh, fuck off"

[passenger]

	Originally Posted by Arguendo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've always wondered if it is harder for an INTP to understand and INTJ, or vice versa?

I think it's more difficult for an INTP to understand the INTJ than vice-versa. When my INTP friends argue something logically (Ti) it's perfectly understandable for me and I understand why I think they're right - because it's logical.

But often I think they're wrong (intutively), even though their logical argument makes sense. And then I really don't have anything to prove it. I just know they're wrong and so I dismiss their position. And that's when INTPs wonder how a lack of argument can still win over a logically consistent argument. Sometimes I do relish that moment.

[Arguendo]

Originally Posted by passenger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think it's more difficult for an INTP to understand the INTJ than vice-versa. When my INTP friends argue something logically (Ti) it's perfectly understandable for me and I understand why I think they're right - because it's logical. But often I think they're wrong (intutively), even though their logical argument makes sense. And then I really don't have anything to prove it. I just know they're wrong and so I dismiss their position. And that's when INTPs wonder how a lack of argument can still win over a logically consistent argument. Sometimes I do relish that moment.

That was a really nice description. I find myself in that position when I am trying to argue with an INTP. It seems that their argument is more structure based. I don't naturally think in terms of systems, so I find it difficult to disprove their theories. They think that if they find a single tiny flaw in any of my arguments, then I am wrong... making them right by default.

[Shadizar]

ESFP's

INTJ's are like, just so wrong. Like, they're totally stuck up and stuff. They need to, like, get out more, and like, have fun, and like, you know, stuff. If I was dating like, an INTJ, like, he'd be like, having the best time of his life, like, how could those INTJ's you know, be so dull all the time, like, they're so weird. Anyhow, I have a coffee date with a friend, to like, you know, like meet a friend of a friend's sister or some such, then we're gonna maybe like, karaoke or something, like have fun and stuff, you know, bu-bye see-you love forevers, like call me...

[Ruse]

xSFJ, in my own experience. My entire mother's side all appear as xSFJ to me, and the passive-aggressive nature of all of them tends to drive me crazy.

[zergonipal]

	Originally Posted by Ruse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	xSFJ, in my own experience. My entire mother's side all appear as xSFJ to me, and the passive-aggressive nature of all of them tends to drive me crazy.

Sometimes I think that without xFSJ's the rest of us would starve, so wrapped up in our abstractions and theories that we'd forget to eat or sleep. Likely they find us frustratingly dreamy - while we find them unimaginative and boring. But in the end a successful society requires both of us, the ability to progress while remaining grounded.

The thing I find irritating is that we can and do understand the xSFJ type, objectively, and make an effort to work with it. But xSFJ's seem incapable of thinking outside their own boxes. They can't meet us halfway; we have to come to them. Not their fault, but still - frustrating.

[passenger]

I think a lot of people in here are referring to this type of personality. Watch if you want to lose some energy:


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[Arguendo]

^ Ugh.

[Shadizar]

I'm tellin' ya, it's them
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[AureliaSeverina]

Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Not sure. But if I had to guess, then I would say INTPs, by experience. We think that we should be able to understand you, because we are both big thinkers, both highly intuitive, and both are introverted. But in reality, we argue and disagree with INTJs, and vice versa, probably more than any other type, from what I have seen. We struggle to comprehend INTJs with far, far more difficulty than even ISTJs, and that is really saying something.

Nonsense. Arguing and disagreeing is called debating. Also, you have a higher statistical likelihood of disagreeing with INTJs, because you probably spend more time with them than .... dunno SFs??? You've just got insane standards for "understanding" someone and Ti-overanalize all the irresponsible waffling that comes out of INTJs arses
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INTPs are cute
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(errr. well... minus that cutsie heart symbol)

Anyway, I don't even know people of all types well enough to be sure which one understands INTJs least. I know people of these types: INTP, ISTJ, ISFJ, INFJ, ENTP, ENFJ, ENFP (????), ESFJ. Out of those ISFJs are the ones who understand me least. But it depends on how self-aware they are and whether they are familiar with the idea that not everybody is like them.

[firestar]

I'd have to say ESFJ because that's what my sister is and she understands nothing about me. That's why we argue as much as we do.

[Smacknrat]

Disaster movies for the future. Me with an ISFJ. Part II consists of an ESFJ. ESFJs, though, are eevvvverrrryyywherehreh. Everywhere. Tattle-tails. Like, really? Your job isn't to report my every movement to your overlords.