[intj5784]

how do they work? my only assumption about them is that they put your money where it will grow. can i use them for more entrepreneurial endeavors?

[Tyrant Soup]

Unless you get one who is a fiduciary, they will probably put your money where the commissions are the highest.

[Henry]

	Originally Posted by intj5784 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	how do they work? my only assumption about them is that they put your money where it will grow

Used car salesmen wearing ties. Only interested in a buck, will sell you anything if comissions are right.

Read "The Intelligent Investor" by Graham with commentary from Zweig. You will then have the knowledge to invest your own money without any assistance from scrub financial salesmen.

[Dave C C]

You can find good financial planners, you still have to watch them like a hawk. And you can tell them where you want you money invested. They may not like it but that is their tough luck.

[thod]

They are ignorant men servicing even more ignorant customers. They will just bung your money into some mutual fund where the fund manager will allocate it according the funds objective.

The way I look at it is I can do it all myself and have fun doing it too.

[xtremegeek]

	Originally Posted by intj5784 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	how do they work? my only assumption about them is that they put your money where it will grow. can i use them for more entrepreneurial endeavors?

They suck! Find yourself an ISTJ friend who is interested in numbers. That person can and will give you better advice than any financial planner (and for free.)

[Henry]

	Originally Posted by xtremegeek To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They suck! Find yourself an ISTJ friend who is interested in numbers. That person can and will give you better advice than any financial planner (and for free.)

You don't really need specific advice unless you are approaching retirement or are intellectually curious because the most simple investment is by far the best for 98/100 people: index funds.

As retirement approaches, diversification into bonds and maybe some cash is advantageous, but if you're more than 10 years away the majority of the money should be in easy-mode, high return index funds.

Or go for the sexleg buy and get a hedge fund manage who will take 3% and 20% of whatever they earn...because everyone who tries to beats the market.

[Max T]

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I think we're being far too kind to wealth planners! To add:

Wealth managers remind of the old saying "Wall Street is the only place where someone comes in by Rolls-Royce to take advice from someone who came in by the tube".

Beside their commission eroding client returns, they also don't mind losing client's money on the basis that "everything is falling". Some clients would be uneasy if they didn't lose money in tune with everyone else!

And a wealth manager who has lost say £10m has more prestige than one who has gained £1m- since someone with the ability to lose that amount must have gained trust to be in control of a lot of money. Truly twisted logic.

Amazingly, they can give a reason for the movement of every asset class- omnipotent BS that a naive investor needs, to explain why their returns barely exceed inflation.

Why would any investor expect to enjoy long-term excess returns from advisors in the industry? Any exceptional advisor would charge commensurately higher fees, thereby reducing the ability to achieve excess returns down to the average (e.g. Coutts, hedge funds). The truly exceptional have retired.

As with any consulting business, investors (clients) get the advisors they deserve.

[bladeserver]

Gulp.He steps gingerly into this thread.
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I am guilty of being a hedge fund (smallish) manager for the last 20 years and actually managing $ for the last 30 (although I was only a naive babe for the first 7 managing very small amounts).

I am an eclectic value guy based in the US but wandering far and wide for the odd $. I respect few people in this industry. Certainly the field of financial planning and wealth management is wildly overpopulated with glorified and overpaid salesmen. I also think the financial press is equally overpopulated with fools and shills. They do a great disservice in their oversimplifications.

I listen to very few people in print, or in person, who convince me that they will be able to survive this jungle in the long term and prosper. Max is one who I think will do well. My 5 cents - listen to Max.

p.s. as a true value guy i drive an 8 year old Hyundai and wear umm eclectic clothes to the office.

[reb]

there's a reason they call them 'brokers'.
r

[Josh]

	Used car salesmen wearing ties. Only interested in a buck, will sell you anything if comissions are right.

Untrue, but i definitely agree you are better off educating yourself which prevents you from one, not getting anything not in your best interest and two, being able to cut out the middle man and handle it on your own.

[Igor]

	Originally Posted by Henry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Used car salesmen wearing ties. Only interested in a buck, will sell you anything if comissions are right. Read "The Intelligent Investor" by Graham with commentary from Zweig. You will then have the knowledge to invest your own money without any assistance from scrub financial salesmen.

Also, read some books on basic asset allocation.

Stay away from dogshit brokers. Look for fee based CFPs, CTFAs, etc.





Igor added to this post, 1 minutes and 51 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Max T To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As with any consulting business, investors (clients) get the advisors they deserve.

TITCR

Greedy and stupid clients get greedy and stupid advisors.

[acyckowski]

	Originally Posted by xtremegeek To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	They suck! Find yourself an ISTJ friend who is interested in numbers. That person can and will give you better advice than any financial planner (and for free.)

Save the ISTJ friend for tax planning and poring through your insurance policies to make sure you're covered if Godzilla flames your hometown. Love them ISTJ's, they're great, but they only play defense.

Before you plunk down $1200 for a financial planner, get a library card. Plenty of outstanding resources out there which are completely free for you to read, after which you'll probably decide which approach you want to take.

If you're comfortable with numbers, do the strategizing yourself. Like Henry said, you're probably better off sticking to index funds, although I recommend taking a risk-tolerance test to figure out your diversification percentages. You didn't say if you were married and/or had kids, that impacts your planning as well...if you're single, you get to do whatever the hell you want, but couples who pool their resources have to consider the differences in their individual risk tolerance when planning for the future. Especially if you have kids, insurance planning starts to interact with investment strategy....

[CMac]

Wow, you all are bitter about financial planners. First of all, financial planning can be much much more than just investment advice. There are plenty of nimrods who are commission based sale men of investment and insurance products, and will focus you on a select set of product solutions...stay away from these. Sorry for that sales guys, but you have to admit that a financial planner who sells only a select group of product for commission has a conflict of interest.

Before answering your question...first you have to answer some questions, what kind of "financial planning" are you looking for?: investment planning, insurance planning, tax planning, estate planning, comprehensive retirement planning? Your answers will influence the answer of the kind of help you need.

They'll ask if you are self employeed, do your own a privately held company, are in a partnership? What assets do you have and need to protect, and what what's your debt? Are you married, does your spouse work? What about kids, are going to send them to college? What happens if the money earner in the family dies? Many many many more questions.

If your seeking specific tax advice, talk to a CPA. If estate planning, talk to an attourney. For comprehensive financial planning, including investment, insurance and retirement planning (some tax and estate too), talk to a Certified Financial Planner (CFP), or a Personal Financial Specialist (PFS), which is an added financial planning accreditation for CPAs.

So how exactly do I start, you ask? If you know any accountants or attourneys, ask if they have a financial planner they recommend.

To hunt down your own planner, start at
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. Many planners offer a no cost one hour consultation where they explain who they are and what they doe, and get a rough understanding of you service needs. Some planners offer a free one or two hour seminar (try you local library), where they talk about what financial planning is, and what services they provide and value they add. Obviously all sales pitches, but the point is they are free sales pitches so you can become a better informed consumer.

Reading books on investment planning is absolutely great. A well diversified portolio of indexed funds is the way to go. If you are single or recently married with a working spouse, and not a lot of wealth, you could get by reading books for a while. Once you start building wealth and have kids, unless you are a savy investment/insurance/estate/retirement type that reads a lot of books, I suggest you engage a planner.

Becareful following your friends investment advice, they only tell you of their investment successes, but fail to mention their investment failures.

Good luck.

[CoryKS]

	Originally Posted by intj5784 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	how do they work? my only assumption about them is that they put your money where it will grow. can i use them for more entrepreneurial endeavors?

It works like this: you give them your money, and they invest it for you. If they make good decisions, your wealth grows and they get paid. If they make bad decisions, your wealth decreases and they get paid.

[Polymath20]

Financial Planning is a service where they help you to manage your money and costs and help point out ways you can save money, how much you can allocate towards vacations and savings and so on. They will point out long term and short term concerns and goals. This is a form of consulting (like a tax consultant or a lawyer).

Wealth Managers take your money and invest it based on whatever criteria you give them or what kind of product they offer. Bernard Madoff was a wealth manager. Learn to manage your own wealth.