[Dru]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It doesn't exist, get over it.

hallucinations don't exist? chemical processes within the brain going haywire are imagined? ha! it must be a burden, knowing so much more about other people you've never met than they know about themselves. where did you get your doctorate degree and professional medical license? when was your ground-breaking research paper published? what studies did you conduct? i think we'd all like to know, have you been nominated for a nobel prize yet?

[ManWithNoName]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It doesn't exist, get over it.

Proof?

[Silverity]

Originally Posted by Shoshana To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I just read that number of mentally ill people--by which I mean extreme behavior that is diagnosable and creates problems for the person and those around them--ranges between 10 and 15%. I don't know how that plays out in anybody else's experience, but I'm finding that I'm bumping into this a lot. I either know people who have an afflicted family member, or my own circumstances unwittingly brings me into contact with people like this. The main thing being housemate situations. I've mostly lived on my own (except marriage) but a couple of years ago I went through a transition and decided to board with others temporarily. In that time, I have encountered 3 people who are out of control, unstable, and scary. I'm talking paranoid personality disorder, borderline, and narcissism. In addition to that, just about half the people I know are on meds. I'm about to have a long talk with my therapist about this...but wtf? This feels more like mental illness is more at the 30 percentile. Either that, or I'm a magnet for the mentally ill. I think I read people very well but have poor boundaries because I want to be nice and get along. But that's not my point. The point is--why is it sooo easy to run into this? Is this America 2012? Or am I somehow subconsciously albeit deliberately exposing myself to this torture?

For the OP... I'm more familiar with Canadian statistics that put us around 10%, but mental illnesses aren't always lifelong, and so thus far the current research suggests that 20% of the population will experience a mental illness at some point (not necessarily lasting) and we've figured up here... every Canadian will have or know someone who has a mental illness. It's pretty prevalent. Worse for children as they tend to have more than one disorder at the same time.

I think you can draw parallels between mental and physical health. Sometimes we have physical colds, and sometimes we have 'mental colds', small periods of depression, for example, that come and go but aren't necessarily highly damaging. Other times you get something more serious, something chronic and debilitating. So while we run into it a lot (I do too), we're not always running into what will become someones 10+ year journey to recovery. It might be more similar to a temporary bout.

I think, also, there is a great deal of over-prescribing of medications for issues that can be coped and dealt with without medical intervention. Judging a spectrum of illnesses/disorders by the number of prescriptions is pretty inaccurate, especially, I think, for our Western cultures that overemphasize the role of pharmaceuticals.

The current prevalence (10-15%) sounds about right to me, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were underestimations in hard to find populations. Not everyone has access to the health care needed for a professional diagnosis, after all.

EDIT: If any of you guys are interested, there's a great book called 'The Globalisation of Addiction' by Bruce Alexander. He talks much about societal break downs, isolation and disconnection, and how these things lead to addiction and mental illness. He uses current and historical examples as well as controlled trials, and it's pretty fascinating.

[TheStranger]

I think many normal people think of themselves as genetic icebergs, but given enough environmental pressure they can become temporarily or permanently broken. The amount of pressure needed varies between individuals, of course. Anyway, the statistics aren't all that surprising.

[Shoshana]

	Originally Posted by Silverity To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So while we run into it a lot (I do too), we're not always running into what will become someones 10+ year journey to recovery. It might be more similar to a temporary bout.

I'm glad I'm not the only one running into this abundantly! The cases I'm talking about are lifetime illnesses but I know what you mean about bouts of deep depression or acute paranoia during times of stress.

	I think, also, there is a great deal of over-prescribing of medications for issues that can be coped and dealt with without medical intervention. Judging a spectrum of illnesses/disorders by the number of prescriptions is pretty inaccurate, especially, I think, for our Western cultures that overemphasize the role of pharmaceuticals.

The widespread ingestion of meds concerns me as well. I have a friend who tried to give me xanax when I had to have a stressful conversation with someone last summer, and my attitude was that the stress was not debilitating. I wasn't in pain, emotional or otherwise, so why did I need an emotional painkiller?

the sad thing is, all these relatively mentally normal people are downing meds, while narcissists, paranoids, borderlines and others similar--WHO REALLY NEED drugs, refuse refuse refuse. Talk about a mad society...

	The current prevalence (10-15%) sounds about right to me, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were underestimations in hard to find populations. Not everyone has access to the health care needed for a professional diagnosis, after all.

Also, from my own experiences, people who are truly mentally ill resist treatment. A lot of them are functioning and you don't see it unless you get close.

	EDIT: If any of you guys are interested, there's a great book called 'The Globalisation of Addiction' by Bruce Alexander. He talks much about societal break downs, isolation and disconnection, and how these things lead to addiction and mental illness. He uses current and historical examples as well as controlled trials, and it's pretty fascinating.

I'll have to check it out. He may be able to answer my question... thank you!

---------- Post added 05-21-2012 at 09:17 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by TheStranger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think many normal people think of themselves as genetic icebergs, but given enough environmental pressure they can become temporarily or permanently broken. The amount of pressure needed varies between individuals, of course. Anyway, the statistics aren't all that surprising.

this is true. I think. all of us have tendencies of one kind or another, and all it takes is a severe trauma to potentially make them blow up.

[Shadizar]

Yes, and every boy in grade school is ADHD.

[TheStranger]

	Originally Posted by Shadizar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes, and every boy in grade school is ADHD.

There was a recent study that claimed ADHD was over-diagnosed due to professionals in general not going off of the strict diagnostic criteria. However, Dr. Russel Barkley has claimed in the past that the disorder is actually under-diagnosed. I would take a middle ground view here and say that some are wrongly diagnosed as having ADHD, while others are wrongly labeled as not having the disorder. Perhaps most of the psychologists lack the specialization needed to promptly and accurately identify actual cases consistently, while dismissing inattention as linked to ADHD, when a separate disorder is the cause, such as anxiety, depression, or schizophrenia. This is a shot in the dark, and isn't meant to bash mental health professionals, but diagnosis seems to be further complicated because ADHD is very commonly found alongside anxiety and depression, while schizophrenia comes with attentional and memory deficits. My point is that a co-morbid disorder may actually be the root cause of the inattention, while at the same time masquerading as ADHD.

[sunitaishot]

	Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Proof?

Normality is subjective.

[thod]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Normality is subjective.

I don't think it is. All one need do is test a large group and find the average. That does not mean they are 'sane', it means they are normal.

[imperio]

Normal or insane, as long as you're contented then so be it.

[themuzicman]

This is, unfortunately, the direction the mental and medical fields have taken to "draw attention" to themselves.

1 in 110 kids have autism.... well, aspergers is a "form" of autism, and this tent is so big it's getting hard to really define.
COPD is a grouping of all breathing deficiencies from emphysema to asthma.
Depression is defined such that half of Americans "get it" at some point.

It's getting to the point where a claim like this is pretty meaningless.

[annaelizabeth]

15% seems awfully low to me. I would think it would be more like 25-35%. In my family alone, I have grown up with a clinically depressed mother who is borderline catatonic at this point, with issues of dementia or something creeping in (irrational, anger issues, odd behavior, etc...). My grandmother is also clinically depressed, although a lot of that is related to her age issues (poor eyesight, etc...) Her anxiety however is a lifelong severe problem. My father is disabled and bitter, also depressed I would say but not as severe as the others. Being an only child in this situation my opinion is biased obviously. People say it's amazing that I am even a functioning part of society because I have have had to work hard to be unlike my parents and go against my upbringing and probably my genetics as well. They are the opposite of role models which was a problem for me growing up. I didn't know what a functional household looked like, apart from my friends' homes. My parents don't work, have no hobbies, are bitter and are just waiting for it all to be over basically. I myself an dysthymic but it's under control thank God. Apart fromthis, outside the home, I have worked with a narcissist (worse than it sounds - very difficult situation), been friends with someone who is bipolar, and had an uncle with drug abuse, probably fueled by depression. Mental illness is very real. The narcissist had a total personality adjustment while on meds and was amazing, caring person to be around, which tells me it was a chemical issue. Too bad she didn't stay on them.

[Shoshana]

Annaelizabeth, I worked with a narcissist last year and, yes, it worse than it sounds. I broke off ties within 4 months. No one can imagine the nightmare of getting too close to these disordered types. These folks should have drugs force fed down their throats. I know that sounds harsh but they're impacting other people's lives with their crazy shit, including their kids.

[Pika]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	COPD is a grouping of all breathing deficiencies from emphysema to asthma.

Actually, COPD is a pretty specifically defined lung disease involving emphysema and/or chronic bronchitis. It is a slowly progressive disease, usually, and is at least exacerbated, if not caused, by smoking. It eventually will lead to other health issues such as heart enlargement and congestive heart failure.

Other lung diseases such as bronchiectasis, bronchiolitis obliterans organizing pneumonia (BOOP), idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, a variety of genetic lung diseases such as cystic fibrosis, asthma (not even close to COPD), lung cancer, silicosis and so on require different treatments and have totally different prognoses. A few, such as lung cancer, are related to smoking; most, however, are not.

Perhaps these disorders are grouped together in the layperson's mind but I can assure you that the medical profession sees things quite differently.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why does eating junk food make one mentally ill? or drinking alcohol?

Because the body's immune system can react to substances in a way that produces symptoms of mental illness.

(Incidentally, I have yet to find a case linking alcohol use with mental illness symptoms unless there's an underlying reaction to one or more additives used in the production of alcoholic drinks or there's something like a corn or wheat allergy involved. It's not the ethanol itself that tends to create symptoms.)

A few examples:

1. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one of my clients came to me to see what I could do to help her early-onset arthritis. In the process of discovering citrus allergy (often linked to arthritis - no surprise there) we also discovered she was reactive to several dyes used in foods, most especially one particular blue dye. She removed those from her diet and was suddenly...not bipolar. That was unexpected, though from what I've seen clinically since then, I'm no longer so surprised to see reduction or even elimination of symptoms of mental illness when the diet gets shifted to...real food.

2. My son has cataplexic seizures -- only when he eats food with additives. Since he's moved home and there are zero additives in the food he's had no episodes at all. He only had episodes while eating crappy college cafeteria food. We took him to a neurologist just to rule out other possibilities. His EEGs are always just fine. They couldn't figure out where the seizures were coming from so we looked elsewhere and found the cause.

3. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Fibromyalgia is linked with symptoms of depression and brain fog. While the research is still being done on how that works, clinical experience in my field shows that CFS/Fibro is linked with a body on toxic overload, and to the extent the overload can be dealt with, the CFS/Fibro symptoms recede, including the depression.

4. For decades we've known about links between particular food additives and ADHD symptoms. Red Dye is notorious for being linked to ADHD in many boys, as are BHA and BHT.

5. There is strong indication that consumption trans fats in the diet can create listlessness, fatigue, inability to focus, and even anger issues in younger children.

I could go on for a while, but really...by now you get the idea.

---------- Post added 05-22-2012 at 05:12 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Shoshana To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Now this might just be me and my non-professional opinion, but depression, even clinical depression isn't in and of itself a mental illness. It might be indicative of one, but lots of times it's situational. (maybe I just have my own narrow definition of mental illness--which includes out of control behavior)

In the case of clinical depression, or at least some forms of it, I would think being non-functional would be a better descriptor than "out of control." But then that's beyond my field -- I am no psychologist nor do I aspire to be one. It's easier to refer clients out to actual psychologists.

However, if clinical depression in my case had a genetic component to it, it sure took long enough to turn up (my mid-40s? really?) and it just so happened to turn up about the time the migraines and IBS turned up. And when the food allergies were removed, all of that...went away at the same time. Obviously this is just one case, but it's damned suggestive. And I'm well aware of similar cases both from my own practice and comparing notes with others who do what I do. It's not that unusual a story.

In the case of my daughter her symptoms were somewhat different in that the clinical depression came along with mood swings from hell, an inability to sleep and wake normally, constipation and nausea. We did all the usual work at the sleep doctor, the neurologists, had the hormone levels checked, blah blah and she was "healthy." Yeah -- just completely not functional.

We kept looking and found elevated levels of mercury and aluminum, PBBs, food allergies, trans fats and dealt with those for the most part. Oddly among things she turned up reactive to were serotonin and dopamine. How the hell your body can react to its own neurotransmitters and you can live is quite beyond me, but the shift after the allergy treatment was visible to an outside observer within 30 minutes, and the problems have not recurred.

	I do think a high stress materialist lifestyle contributes to this.

It may, however this is not a lifestyle either of us lead or have ever led, so it isn't a factor that explains anything in our cases.

Certainly it can be a factor -- it has been for a few clients. I don't just look at diet when I work with clients. It's the whole lifestyle package we look at together.

	Psychologists are in a disagreement over how much of it is genetic and how much is environmentally induced.

And until there's some decent teamwork, communication, consultation and mutual respect going on between professions that deal with conditions like this, they will continue to be in disagreement. Oh yes, and more focus on peoples' actual health and less on "market share" for one's profession.

I'm sure this is all TMI by now, but the point I really wanted to make here is we still know very little about mental illness generally and whether so much of it is strictly medical and not just symptomatic of an underlying physical condition.

Unfortunately it seems like the most current approaches are 1) talk talk talk and 2) drug the patient to control symptoms.

While useful, neither of these even contemplates looking at the possibility of some physical basis for symptoms that can actually be dealt with and "cured."

	There's some studies suggesting that even Psych meds that treat mental illness are creating more severe mental illness!

In my case they would've given me 4-day migraines just because of the binders in the pills. That's why I didn't bother pursuing the psychiatric angle in the first place. Well, that and the idiotic way health insurance works in the U.S.

---------- Post added 05-22-2012 at 05:14 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	True, people have become addicted to other things, like social media and all types of electronic gadgets, but apparently To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. among American youth.

Oh, I was only thinking of substance abuse and whether there was a steady amount of that and it's just that the "substance" had shifted away from alcohol somewhat and in the direction of other substances.

Hm, so substance abuse is generally on the rise...that is most interesting.

	More recent research says To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Wow. Unexpected!

Thanks for the links.

[slug]

Based on the number of people I know with mental health problems, I would agree with 15% over a person's life time for anxiety/depression, etc.

But what amazes me is how many people I know who are bipolar (a dozen or more?) And those are just the people who have either told me, or have obvious enough behavior. This either has to be some kind of hidden epidemic or it's way over-diagnosed.

The paranoid lady reminds me of a friend I had who turned out to be schizophrenic. Those were the kinds of behaviors she had before she went into a full blown episode.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It doesn't exist, get over it.

Feel free to explain my schizophrenic cousin's behaviour as well as the obvious deformities on her brain scans then.

---------- Post added 05-22-2012 at 06:42 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Shadizar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes, and every boy in grade school is ADHD.

Then my son is not a boy, I guess.

But seriously, here in my little portion of the world after 1st grade there is no recess and that will make a perfectly normal boy have more difficulty focusing. This is really a crappy thing to do to boys (and some girls, of course). Boys generally do need to move around so they can focus on schoolwork better. But OMG you know one of those precious delicate children might scrape a knee or get stung by a bee, so the lawyers have made sure recess isn't possible.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not sure that ADHD was included in the 15% though -- was it?

---------- Post added 05-22-2012 at 06:53 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Normality is subjective.

There's nothing "subjective" about the abnormality of leaving your post as an air traffic controller, stripping buck naked, and going into the airport atrium witnessing about JEESUS! until the cops come and take you away in the rubber-lined van.

I believe the technical term for this was originally "mania." The layman's term is "batshit crazy."

My cousin displayed no symptoms of this sort until she was around 20. Picture perfect description of how schizophrenia shows itself, she was (and still is).

She's in her 60s now, and she has never flown a commercial plane, had as much as a pilot's license, neither did the family poison our grandmother, all of which she claims are "true."

And funny thing if she actually takes the meds the delusions are gone. But as someone said people this mentally ill often resist treatment, and my cousin certainly does.

Her two daughters have similar conditions but they are functional because they stay on their meds. I guess they took a hint from their mom's failure to take hers and decided not to go that route. Smart girls.

Personally I would not care to walk down a path that led to me turning cheap tricks in my mid-60s to get money for food and rides around the country. Odds are good she'll die on the street. It's wonder she hasn't already. And when she does, the family may never know about it.

But you know, that's all subjective. Really in another place on the planet she much just be perfectly normal.

Like if that place is a hospital for the seriously insane.

---------- Post added 05-22-2012 at 07:02 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by slug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But what amazes me is how many people I know who are bipolar (a dozen or more?) And those are just the people who have either told me, or have obvious enough behavior. This either has to be some kind of hidden epidemic or it's way over-diagnosed.

It could be a statistical anomaly though.

I mean, an amazing percentage of healthcare professionals I've consulted are gay, but I know that in no way reflects the healthcare profession at large.

Of the people I've been to for the past 10 years, 68% of them are gay, and it's obvious 68% of healthcare professionals are not gay.

Don't ask me why -- it just sort of turned out that way. *shrug* Maybe the Universe was trying to teach me something. You never know.

[Anza]

To me the idea that 15% of the population has some kind of chemical imbalance seems a little odd. The rise in this number might have a lot to do with decreasing tolerance for people who are a little "odd" in different ways. When most didn't go to school complaints about hyperactivity and focusing problems must've been minimal compared to now. I have little doubt that after 50 years people will look at our state of psychiatry pretty much the same way as how we now look at 1960's psychiatry.

[scorpiomover]

About 10 years ago, the estimate was 10% in groups that have a high incidence of mental illness, and much lower in everyone else. I too have met an inordinate number of mentally ill people. I used to think it was pre-selection. But these days, I have expanded my circle to so many different types of people, that the only groups that don't show mental illness, seem to be those who are insulated by their money and situation, from having to admit to having it. I too am starting to wonder if there are any normal people out there, and if I have only been deluding myself that anyone is sane at all.

Granted, we were told that society is improving, thanks to science. But a quick glance at the bookshelves on psychology, and a number of books written by professional highly-respected psychiastrists, devoted to topics about how our society is getting sicker, such as "Affluenza", are now very common, and the mental health wards are positively bursting at the seams. Only reason why no-one notices anymore, is that in the 80s and 90s, the sanatoriums were closed down, and the existing mental health wards are being closed down, and lots of the really sick people are being put into open society, and currently, most of us don't seem to know our neighbours anymore.

[Rationality]

	Originally Posted by scorpiomover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But these days, I have expanded my circle to so many different types of people, that the only groups that don't show mental illness, seem to be those who are insulated by their money and situation, from having to admit to having it. I too am starting to wonder if there are any normal people out there, and if I have only been deluding myself that anyone is sane at all.

Yeah, in my experience most people are not entirely "normal" according to psychology textbooks and broad DSM checklists once you really get to know them. They're just sane enough to fake normalcy and avoid psychiatrists.

[Shoshana]

I think we all find each other a little crazy. I can live with that kind of crazy. It's the erratic scary crazy that's a problem.

I read somewhere that mental illness is so prevalent because it's a byproduct of having a large brain. Humans have that proclivity...

[JTG]

	Originally Posted by sunitaishot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It doesn't exist, get over it.

Please tell me you think hallucinations are caused by demons or witches or something

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Rationality To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yeah, in my experience most people are not entirely "normal" according to psychology textbooks and broad DSM checklists once you really get to know them. They're just sane enough to fake normalcy and avoid psychiatrists.

Agreed. Personas are reasonably useful for hiding one's true mental health in order to get and keep a job, a spouse, etc.

And some not-so-healthy traits also become mainstream at some point, because so many people have them that it becomes the new "normal", like needing to be needed (re: codependency or savior syndrome) and compulsively checking your smartphone.

[KelvinDjangoTeo]

Define mental illness.

[JTG]

	Originally Posted by KelvinDjangoTeo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Define mental illness.

I'm not up on the specific medical terminology, but i think it's something like "mental illness is what happens when an abnormal psychological state causes one difficulty in life."

Like you can be wierd, and that's fine, but when it's hard to hold a job, or you get yourself in legal trouble... then it's probably mental illness