[Frosted]

I am leaning towards the belief that INTJ women have an easier time finding a significant-other because of the inherent personality traits of the INTJ.

Introversion:

Women are approached, men are usually not. A quiet girl reading in the park may have an "Exxx" approach her, while the quiet guy reading in the park appears to be a loner (imo, but please chime in with honesty ladies). A woman that isn't surrounded by other women seems very approachable (is this just me?), but I think that a man that's wandering around alone appears unattractive to women.

Being logical rather than emotional:

A woman who isn't led by her emotions is just a bag of cherries to a guy; well at least I know to me she would be. So this is just another trait of the INTJ that makes an INTJ female more likely to find a s/o imo.

There may be more but this is all I can think of at the moment. I brought this up because I often see women on this forum referring to their husband or boyfriend and don't see much in terms of the opposite. Could be selective perception on my part though.

[rocksteady88]

Seems like to me women on a whole regardless of MBTI type will have much easier time getting a mate due to the fact that men are USUALLY the ones who initiate the relationship.

[Saggita]

I don't know if I agree or I disagree with you here, because I was basically the girl in glasses no one wants to make out with until I was fourteen. But then the tables turned... But no SO so far. But I do see a lot of women talking about boyfriends and husbands, and I also see a lot of men talking about certain stuff and I think to myself: "They must be single..."

Uh... But I don't think I am especially attractive or appealing. I think being an INTJ woman is harder than it sounds.

[Reizu]

I can't really help you on this one, as I am appalled by the very presence of the majority of males in my community (idiot redneck stereotypes), and thus am sure as hell not in a relationship with any of them.

[Ghostwheel]

	Originally Posted by Saggita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't know if I agree or I disagree with you here, because I was basically the girl in glasses no one wants to make out with until I was fourteen.

???

Until you were fourteen? Am I reading that correctly?

How much earlier would you have preferred to start making out?

For the record, I first asked a girl out shortly after turning fourteen. Got my first date two and one half years later at sixteen and a half.

She was fourteen.

[CanrHoldLimes]

First off, no one take offense to this, it's just an observation based on maybe, first impression, but I think I'd personally be turned off by an INTJ woman, but on the other hand, I think women may find INTJ men attractive.

Women like to fix things that appear broken, and men don't like bitches, and that might be how each party comes off at first glance, in a regular every day situation I guess.

[Saggita]

	Until you were fourteen? Am I reading that correctly?

Hey, I didn't say I started to make out at fourteen. I said no one wanted to make out with me until then. I kept the glasses but at least guys were talking to me and such after that...

	men don't like bitches

Please explain what you mean by bitches.

[HeavyRain]

Are we taking an INTJ woman's standards into consideration?

[curiousgeorge01]

Yes but a woman's "offers" seems to coincide directly with their looks. Most of the time. So not matter what type you are, if you're not pretty or above a certain threshold you're not going to get as many offers. Well...unless you're not that picky...or have a reputation.

[CanrHoldLimes]

	Originally Posted by Saggita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Please explain what you mean by bitches.

Well, it's a double standard really.
For a man who seems reserved and "aloof" it may come off as a more attractive trait, assuming that guy is good looking. A woman may be more inclined to want to get to know him and "fix" him.
For a woman who has very similar traits, she can appear to be a bitch, and a man may not be comfortable in approaching her.

[Saggita]

	For a woman who has very similar traits, she can appear to be a bitch, and a man may not be comfortable in approaching her.

True enough. I'm hell aloof and I often hear the phrase: "I thought you were arrogant until I met you." And it also angers me a bit that I'm considered arrogant where a male counterpart is not.

I am delightful as fuck.

[MyotisLucifugus]

I'm in a relationship with one of the most awesome people I've ever met, who just so happens to also be an INTJ. I approached him first. We both had to deal with a lot of crap before we met, and in my case most of it was due to my NOT being seen as a "bag of cherries." Most of the time my stoicism gets me labeled as a threat or a bitch and not much else.

[thecase]

	Originally Posted by MyotisLucifugus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm in a relationship with one of the most awesome people I've ever met, who just so happens to also be an INTJ. I approached him first. We both had to deal with a lot of crap before we met, and in my case most of it was due to my NOT being seen as a "bag of cherries." Most of the time my stoicism gets me labeled as a threat or a bitch and not much else.

High fives for being in INTJ relationships. I too think my boyfriend is pretty much one of the most awesome people I've ever met. And yes, that has to do with the fact that we have so many similarities in our thought patterns.

He approached me, but mostly on an intellectual level- to talk about conflict in the middle east (I used to live there) We talked for about 2 months daily, on an intellectual level before realizing, wow we are both rather awesome, who else would we ever need
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. Luckily the emotional and sexual chemistry was there was well once we gave it a shot. It's funny we chose to be blind to all that for two months!

[LifesEcstasy]

Honestly? I initiated first contact. If I had sat on my arse on a park bench looking pretty and expecting my SO to throw himself at me, I'd be single too. It's not a male\female thing, it's a if you like what you see make it known thing. I have no idea why this simple principle remains a mystery.

From what I've observed by the unhappily single guys on this forum, this is their behaviour...

Stage 1 - Stare her down and get disappointed when she fails to hand you her phone number and a copy of her social schedule.

Stage 2 - Get on INTJf and ask for advice about why this person isn't approaching you, asking you out, trying to marry you as you're such an obvious catch.

Stage 3 - Get a heap of well meaning but clueless advice to either forget about it, because she's obviously an attention whore anyway or dude, cut off all contact and show her how much you're not interested because that will lure her in.

Stage 4 - Start a thread on INTJf theorising why you, although an obvious candidate for being popular with the ladies, are currently single and appear to be heading in that direction for the rest of your natural life. Be sure to place the fault squarely on societal norms and unfairness of females rather than look to your own behaviour.

[Frosted]

Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Honestly? I initiated first contact. If I had sat on my arse on a park bench looking pretty and expecting my SO to throw himself at me, I'd be single too. It's not a male\female thing, it's a if you like what you see make it known thing. I have no idea why this simple principle remains a mystery. From what I've observed by the unhappily single guys on this forum, this is their behaviour... Stage 1 - Stare her down and get disappointed when she fails to hand you her phone number and a copy of her social schedule. Stage 2 - Get on INTJf and ask for advice about why this person isn't approaching you, asking you out, trying to marry you as you're such an obvious catch. Stage 3 - Get a heap of well meaning but clueless advice to either forget about it, because she's obviously an attention whore anyway or dude, cut off all contact and show her how much you're not interested because that will lure her in. Stage 4 - Start a thread on INTJf theorising why you, although an obvious candidate for being popular with the ladies, are currently single and appear to be heading in that direction for the rest of your natural life. Be sure to place the fault squarely on societal norms and unfairness of females rather than look to your own behaviour.

Did you read the entire opening post or just the thread title and the first sentence? I'm looking at myself and would like to see how my behaviors are perceived by women.

[LifesEcstasy]

	Originally Posted by curiousgeorge01 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes but a woman's "offers" seems to coincide directly with their looks. Most of the time. So not matter what type you are, if you're not pretty or above a certain threshold you're not going to get as many offers. Well...unless you're not that picky...or have a reputation.

Maybe you'd like to include in your world view the fact that only a certain subset of males focus exclusively upon looks as their criteria for mates. We tend to receive the data that confirms our own convictions, it's called confirmation bias.

And so far.....

4 INTJ females responded
3 of them made the first move

Tentative conclusion - Partnered INTJ females are more successful than the whinging, single INTJ males here, because they are willing to take a risk.

---------- Post added 05-20-2012 at 09:27 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Did you read the entire opening post or just the thread title and the first sentence? I'm looking at myself and would like to see how my behaviors are perceived by women.

Yes I did read the whole post, and that's how behaviours are seen by this INTJ woman.

[PRBori]

You don't have enough options. INTJ female getting off a relationship.

In any event, I've never had issues finding a partner. For the most part they find me and they take the first step, I simply follow if I'm interested and in the right state of mind.

As a matter of fact I already have someone after me, and no, I'm not a hot tamale, so I'm not sure why men are attracted to me. Who knows, I always wonder what they see on me... well, I know, but I still wonder. :P

In any event, men never seem to be the issue, I attrack many men, they are just not always my type. I'm sexy in many ways and even though I can be bitchy, I'm quite docil on a relationship.

[Frosted]

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes I did read the whole post, and that's how behaviours are seen by this INTJ woman.

So when men display uncertainty about the workings of starting relationships they are defective? Real question; non-rhetorical question.

[LifesEcstasy]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So when men display uncertainty about the workings of starting relationships they are defective? Real question; non-rhetorical question.

No. It's more like this....

You are single...yes?
What you've been doing (not initiating contact etc) hasn't been working for you...yes?

You write a post about...

Society seeing you as defective because you're an introvert and male. Society seeing me as a 'bag of cherries' because I'm an introvert and female. Societies (ie, women you like) lack of acknowledgement and accomodation of your introversion is the reason for your lack of success.

I am pointing out that my success compared to your lack of it has nothing to do with testicles and societal norms. It has everything to do with I asked the object of my interest out. Two other INTJ women have also responded that they took the initiative. So I'm saying that INTJ females do not have an easier time with introversion than you, they simply are more likely to do something about it rather than being passive. What's defective here isn't you, what's defective is the argument.

And we see this same argument crop up over and over again. Basically a lot of single INTJ males want to rationalise why things are so rather than do anything different to get different results. And that applies to me also. If I sat around and only accepted the attentions of those who contacted me, then my choice of mate would be very poor as well, going by my past history.

[Ghostwheel]

Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am pointing out that my success compared to your lack of it has nothing to do with testicles and societal norms. It has everything to do with I asked the object of my interest out. Two other INTJ women have also responded that they took the initiative. So I'm saying that INTJ females do not have an easier time with introversion than you, they simply are more likely to do something about it rather than being passive.

No, I don't think so.

A woman asking a man out is a novelty for the man. A man asking a woman out is just another guy hitting on her.

So if women initiating dates have a greater ratio of success than men initiating dates, that probably explains it.

[Frosted]

Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

No. It's more like this.... You are single...yes? What you've been doing (not initiating contact etc) hasn't been working for you...yes? You write a post about... Society seeing you as defective because you're an introvert and male. Society seeing me as a 'bag of cherries' because I'm an introvert and female. Societies (ie, women you like) lack of acknowledgement and accomodation of your introversion is the reason for your lack of success. I am pointing out that my success compared to your lack of it has nothing to do with testicles and societal norms. It has everything to do with I asked the object of my interest out. Two other INTJ women have also responded that they took the initiative. So I'm saying that INTJ females do not have an easier time with introversion than you, they simply are more likely to do something about it rather than being passive. What's defective here isn't you, what's defective is the argument. And we see this same argument crop up over and over again. Basically a lot of single INTJ males want to rationalise why things are so rather than do anything different to get different results. And that applies to me also. If I sat around and only accepted the attentions of those who contacted me, then my choice of mate would be very poor as well, going by my past history.

The "bag of cherries" remark was referring to not being led by emotions, it wasn't referring to introversion. And I do want to "do something about it". I am here posting aren't I? I guess it boils down to failure. Maybe I want other males to chime in and let me know I'm not alone in not being able to approach women. I'm not good at making small talk and I'm afraid (especially after all the comments from women on here) that I may say the wrong thing initially and it would be regarded an interest only in sex. Maybe I should chalk up my losses and go date the 22 year old ex-heroin addict that likes me. How does that go, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired"?

Off topic, kind of: Too many people on this forum defending their opinions to the bitter end with maximum rigidity. Perhaps I should stay at the bottom half of the forum.

[Ghostwheel]

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Maybe I want other males to chime in and let me know I'm not alone in not being able to approach women....

And the difficulty is not just in approaching women and asking them out, because odds are that woman has several guys in her life who are hitting on her as well. Approaching and striking up rapport is only the first step. How many other offers does she have going? Why should she spend time with you rather than, say, the charming ESTP whom she knows will show her a good time?

Of course it's frustrating, and of course it's difficult, especially if, true to INTJ form, you appear stiff as a board and can't loosen up until you really get to know someone.

[CanrHoldLimes]

	Originally Posted by Saggita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	True enough. I'm hell aloof and I often hear the phrase: "I thought you were arrogant until I met you." And it also angers me a bit that I'm considered arrogant where a male counterpart is not. I am delightful as fuck.

Yea that's just what I mean, I admit I'm guilty of thinking like that too about introverted women.

[Osmobot]

	Originally Posted by Saggita To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	because I was basically the girl in glasses no one wants to make out with until I was fourteen.

Are you kidding me? No one wanted to make out with me until I was 19, and I was athletic and at the very least not bad looking.

Quiet, introverted men are seen as weirdos. Quiet, introverted women are seen as delicate little flowers that need to be protected, which makes them attractive.

[Cozzine]

I agree with the OP to an extent. I have discussed this with a friend of mine who has told me that I should find a S/O. I basically explained that I will not take the initiative to ask a female out, because I am not looking for a relationship.
If a female were to take the initiative to ask me out, I would have to sit back and consider it.

I further explained that because of two decisions, and partnered with genetic, cultural, and ideological variables, it is extremely unlikely a female will take the initiative to approach me.

Why?

1. Because of my behavior and approach as an INTJ, females will find me non-approachable, a loner, and someone who obviously would not add to their life in a beneficial way (extraverted way). This is founded on genetics that males need to be strong to protect their offspring, and if not fully extraverted then assertive. I find it hard being assertive at times, and I am not extraverted, therefore in the genetic standpoint females subconsciously decide I am not a match.
2. Our culture promotes that males should approach females to date. There is absolutely no way I would do that. Few females seek males out, and those that do would rather seek out males that fall under the latter portion of #1 above.
3. If a female ever took the initiative to ask me out, I would likely act rashly due to unfamiliar emotions, and my mind seizing up (happened every time I've been asked) and I would either decline them, or possibly just ask for their number or something and rush away to process what happened. That would not only turn off the female, but almost certainly result in her dropping it and finding someone else.

The statistical probability chance I would get into a relationship with a female is directly proportional to many environmental variables such as extraverted activities I might be undergoing (such as fairs or concerts; extremely rare I do these), the MBTI type of the female (not only that, but the circumstantial variables such as who they are talking to, what they are after, etc effecting their perspective and behavior), intricacies of my behavior, and other variables that can judged at that time. I think our intuition can be used to judge the probability chance of getting into a relationship at any certain time (I will exclude for the sake of my not creating a massive essay); I know at the back of my mind, whenever I see a woman, I tend to take in the environment and decide what the likely chance of the female's getting interested in me is going to be.
It is almost always down to around 10% or less.

So far these points have proven conclusive as I have not been approached for a date by a female since my early High School Years (about 6 years). You can basically treat it like a science, and if you change a variable here and there your chances increase or decrease.

I have also remarked that I am not sure I would want to be a female introvert. You have males making fools of themselves for your attention, approaching you, annoying you, etc. Some don't take no for an answer. You are stared at a lot, and lusted for, in general public.
I enjoy my leisuring, and would not trade it to be very attractive and constantly interrupted from my thoughts.