INTJ's and IQ

**Doppelbock** · 09-25-2007, 06:52 AM

I came across the following statistics:
* Only 2% of the general population are INTJ's
* 37% of INTJ's have IQ's that place them in the top 2% of the general population. (Next most is INTP, with a 20% chance.)

Thoughts/comments? Are we really that smart?

DB

**Firelie** · 09-25-2007, 09:30 AM

That's a hard one since most people don't share their IQ scores, and of the people who do share them, you can't be certain who's padding their score to seem smarter and who's telling the truth.

That being said, I'm not in that top 2%. *I think the score description said something about "appearing" to be a genius to less smart people, but not actually being one. lol

(This was an online IQ test, by the way. I'm not sure whether it was an "official" one or not)

**Guido** · 09-25-2007, 10:59 AM

IQ tests are funny. I did the common one from the High IQ society page (which I think is one of the most accurate internet ones available) awhile back, and raked up a nice 142 (or 146? I forget). I don't think it means all that much, it just shows I have a high aptitude to write their kind of test, despite doing rather poorly on all the word problems. I'm quite good at the ‘visualizing those 25 sided objects that have been flattened out’ questions where they ask you something like 'which of the following are correct representations' followed by a list of flattened out sections of the object but rotated.

What does that magic 142 number mean? I have no idea. I've always thought of intelligence being a vector with a very large number of elements that represent facets of different kinds of intelligences. (Go go linear algebra!) People who have a higher magnitude of this vector are smarter. IQ tests will only measure certain components of this vector. I found the test I wrote to measure my best components, such as my math calculation and my visualization abilities. However, someone 'smarter' than me could have done quite poorly while still having a total higher intelligence magnitude.

My ISTP dad for example, is bad at math and visualization, and not so great with words either. If I got him to write this test, he would get something ridiculously low. He is however, one of the smartest guys I know. He has an uncanny ability with street smarts and common sense. He also has an unbelievable memory with history and other fact related stuff he's interested in. It's not uncommon for him to hear an old song on the radio and say something like 'This song was written by ___ and it came out in the summer of ___. The first time I heard it, I was driving to ___ '. The strangest thing is, these aren't even choice memories as he’s told me thousands of them and they're rarely ever the same. These of course, are only the one's he's told me, so I have no idea how much of his life he has memorized o.0

An ENFJ friend of mine is a little retarded when it comes to reasoning at times. And has neither my skills, nor my fathers. But there isn't anyone else I would go to for advice on social issues, as she too is one of the smartest people I know. I’m pretty sure that she thinks I think she’s dumb, which entertains me :D

The only aspects I have been able to make solid judgments on, is that people with a higher intelligence magnitude than others have a few things in common. They have a higher mental bandwidth, allowing them to calculate or figure out more involving their specialties. This in turn allows them to handle bigger and more complicated puzzles that are able to fit into their bandwidth, to come up with better solutions in a faster amount of time. They also have a memory that's adept for this bandwidth. For example. My father's history memory, my errr robot? memory, and my ENFJ friend's people memory. I've also noticed that they tend to pull up their weaker 'components' as their magnitude gets higher. I never liked history, but I didn't have much problem memorizing the raw facts and doing well on tests... when I took the time to study that is. It’s usually pretty easy to get a feel of someone to figure out how smart they are.

In short, I do think that INTJs are smarter on average than most just because of the way our brains are wired. I'm not sure if there is a type out there that thinks more than we do. However, our type also gives us a big advantage in taking common IQ tests making them a little biased.

**Firelie** · 09-25-2007, 11:28 AM

You know what, that's exactly it. Good post, Guido.

**Tarrick** · 09-25-2007, 02:20 PM

Indeed. Our high intuition give us a great advantage while taking those tests.

**The Rose** · 09-25-2007, 04:35 PM

I have scored fairly well on IQ tests in the past.

**Lufus** · 09-25-2007, 06:27 PM

I think a lot of it comes back to your drive for self-improvement. Many people in school simply do the work because they're assigned it. INTJ's, on the otherhand, seem more likely to not only do the work, but comprehend it on a level that most don't.

**Rei** · 09-26-2007, 01:29 PM

Will read the really extremely good and long post later.

I got 135 or something, though I'm not sure how accurate that test was. That was a while ago and I feel like I've gotten dumber since. I think university makes people dumb...

Anyway, I'm actually more interested in finding out my EQ

And yes, INTJ are that smart
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**Firelie** · 09-26-2007, 01:44 PM

	Originally Posted by Rei
	I got 135 or something, though I'm not sure how accurate that test was. *That was a while ago and I feel like I've gotten dumber since.

Yeah, I feel like I've gotten dumber since the last time I took an IQ test. Is it possible to get more dumb? lol

**Apococlock** · 09-26-2007, 03:58 PM

I must be an inferior INTJ because I tend to not score so well in the IQ area. Usually I only pull around a 120 (in the national high IQ society), give or take approximately five. I managed to meet their requirements but alas, it isn't something I would pay for.

The thing I really struggle with is visual memorization, which is unusual to me because I'm an artist, which means I visually memorize a lot of stuff in order to reproduce it. For whatever reason though I cannot seem to grasp the images the want me to memorize in the amount of time that they give, which means I fail the that area pretty hard.

Another thing that gets me is obscure questions about history that I could not possible know. "Who was the ruler of *insert generic country here* in the year *insert distant year here from over a century ago*?"

That sort of thing gets me, I use context clues the best I can to eliminate possible solutions, and I believe it helps if only a little.

Lastly is the Math and English. Both which I can fly through with reletive ease. While I've always despised math (because of the repetition of it as well as how it rarely applied to anything I cared about) I've always been able to easily grasp it. As for English, well, I'm somewhat of a freak at it. So those portions of any test are a cake walk.

Patterns are simple, so is a lot of the other logical tests.

Despite all of the flaws within my mind, it still is a reasonably high IQ, and since I'm probably the lowest here in that area, it should say a lot about the general INTJ population.

edit: And yes, there are many ways to get dumber. It's a matter of habits and memory loss and various other contributors.

**Guido** · 09-26-2007, 05:15 PM

	Originally Posted by Lufus
	I think a lot of it comes back to your drive for self-improvement. Many people in school simply do the work because they're assigned it. INTJ's, on the other hand, seem more likely to not only do the work, but comprehend it on a level that most don't.

That's exactly how I managed to sleep in the back of the class throughout well... all of my schooling :o It's almost as if most people just memorize how to get the answer rather than the understanding behind it. Because I had laid the ground work at an early age for math, learning new concepts took minutes instead the weeks it would take others.

**Jack** · 09-26-2007, 05:42 PM

If I can remember that far back I would say my IQ was in the range of about 130-135...It's not like the numbers matter anyways, it's how you use your "Genius", that makes you the intellectual that you are, I love writing and playing guitar...To me these 2 things are quite opposite from each other, and it was realized that this came natural for me in early adolescence.(I am self-taught in alot of meaningless things)I can't stand thinking of myself as a statistic, So!...Individuality is more important to me.

As for the % of INTJ's, ENTP's are also considered as 2% as well, I tend to sway between these two types.

So being INTJ and tendencies of ENTP with an IQ of 130-35, with the importance of trying to be myself, where does that put me "Statistically" as an individual?

**wise** · 09-26-2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jack S

If I can remember that far back I would say my IQ was in the range of about 130-135...It's not like the numbers matter anyways, it's how you use your "Genius", that makes you the intellectual that you are, I love writing and playing guitar...To me these 2 things are quite opposite from each other, and it was realized that this came natural for me in early adolescence.(I am self-taught in alot of meaningless things)I can't stand thinking of myself as a statistic, So!...Individuality is more important to me.

As for the % of INTJ's, ENTP's are also considered as 2% as well, I tend to sway between these two types.

So being INTJ and tendencies of ENTP with an IQ of 130-35, with the importance of trying to be myself, where does that put me "Statistically" as an individual?

Jack, on the IHIQS test I scored 131, and was pleased with that. I don't believe that the score in and of itself determines your intelligence; you have to use it for it to be any good.

I did join their site, which may deduct points from my score for paying the money. I have enjoyed it though. There are a lot of really strange people with high IQs, then there are some really nice people with high IQs. I have to admit that some of them talk over my head; sometimes because of their intelligence and other times because they're just strange.

**Romeo** · 09-26-2007, 07:25 PM

I think I scored 142.

**StJimmy** · 09-26-2007, 08:18 PM

i don't really know what my IQ is but i can say that during highshool i consistently tested in the 98+ percentile on every standardized test i ever took. but then again i have a way with multiple choice, it's like cheating. /shrug

**Max T** · 09-27-2007, 02:41 AM

I score 128- 130.
Bright enough to know I'm not that bright (and be able to do something about it).

In the investment world, its generally agreed that anything above 125 is superfluous to success, and IQ above 145 can be dangerous as you are either a. overconfident in your abilities (Long Term Capital Management fund implosion) or b. too frustrated by the 'illogical' movements of the markets.

Instead, what matters alot is knowing yourself- your cognitive blindspots and general fallibility- and thereby thinking rationally as opposed to 'deeply'.

This 'intrapersonal intelligence' that I value is one of Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences

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... INTJs surely measure dumb in a few areas (e.g. interpersonal and poss. bodily (sporting) intelligence).

**The Rose** · 09-27-2007, 03:43 AM

	Originally Posted by Max T
	...This 'intrapersonal intelligence' that I value is one of Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ... INTJs surely measure dumb in a few areas (e.g. interpersonal and poss. bodily (sporting) intelligence).

I'm thankful to have learned about the different intelligences many years ago.
It helped me appreciate my ISTPs "other" strengths.

**Jbmontag** · 09-30-2007, 04:40 PM

Depending on the test, my score ranges from 129 to 142. I prefer multiple intelligence theory to standard IQ tests. I believe the interplay of these different types of intelligence give a more adequate description of human achievement.

Almost like the MBTI, every aspect is represented, it is just a matter to what degree.

**Tarrick** · 09-30-2007, 08:58 PM

Oh are we dropping scores then?
142-5.

In any event, Jbmontag, do you know of any place to take a multiple intelligence theory test online?

**deicruxified** · 09-30-2007, 10:18 PM

likewise... then when we had the national career exams so just to determine what kind of career would suit us so that we'd know what to take in college, i got superior in math, art, kinesthetics, science and english...i did rank high in multiple intelligences and i'm a balanced brain as well which actually was more trouble coz way back then, i don't know what course i'm going to take.

iq's more of math and english which is pretty unfair for others who are inclined in music or art...

**Ian** · 10-02-2007, 02:12 PM

I qualified for Mensa in 1983 - just did the test for fun and never really thought too much about having an IQ score in the top 1%.

To me, it just means I am good at things called 'IQ tests' , nothing more.

Having said that, I could tell the time when I was 2 years old, had my first wrist watch at 3 and got through the first 3 years of infants school in about 12 months - only to be kept back while my peers caught up. I also remember, in those early years, getting into trouble for not doing my addition / sutraction sums using the beads in the plastic pots on the table - I could just look at the problem on the card and write the right answer down.

Looking back, now 46, it has been downhill ever since
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**Jbmontag** · 10-04-2007, 01:50 PM

	Originally Posted by Tarrick
	Oh are we dropping scores then? 142-5. In any event, Jbmontag, do you know of any place to take a multiple intelligence theory test online?

No i don't actually, the only tests I have taken were at a learning center on the campus I went to college. I'll look around though and send you any links I might find though.

**phoenix** · 10-04-2007, 07:03 PM

Dropping scores:

I was formally tested once (not one of those online things, but an actual paid-for IQ test...thanks Mom!). I got 144. I guess it says something that I was a bit disappointed at the time.

The one score I'm proudest of was the 800 I got on the analytical portion of the GRE. I figure that makes up for the *measly* 144 *
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**Tarrick** · 10-04-2007, 10:54 PM

	Originally Posted by phoenix
	Dropping scores: I got 144. I guess it says something that I was a bit disappointed at the time.

If I remember correctly, doesn't "Genius" level start at about 150?

And a chart:

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**Max T** · 10-05-2007, 02:53 AM

150+ IQ just shows how long the tails to that normal distribution really are (and some poor sods at <50 IQ too).

Is the mean (100) fixed over time or likely to rise to say 110 (by today's standards) in 2050?
It's joked that the NT Bill Gates would have been useless 1000 years ago, but thrives today. Does that mean in the future more high IQ people will prevail?

Conversely, that lower intelligence people will continue to tend to have large families, to support one another against the general unfairness in society. And so balancing out society to remain at 100 IQ.

09-25-2007, 06:52 AM	#1
Doppelbock Member [30%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,208	I came across the following statistics: * Only 2% of the general population are INTJ's * 37% of INTJ's have IQ's that place them in the top 2% of the general population. (Next most is INTP, with a 20% chance.) Thoughts/comments? Are we really that smart? DB
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09-25-2007, 09:30 AM	#2
Firelie Member [19%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 793	That's a hard one since most people don't share their IQ scores, and of the people who do share them, you can't be certain who's padding their score to seem smarter and who's telling the truth. That being said, I'm not in that top 2%. *I think the score description said something about "appearing" to be a genius to less smart people, but not actually being one. lol (This was an online IQ test, by the way. I'm not sure whether it was an "official" one or not)
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09-25-2007, 10:59 AM	#3
Guido Member [05%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 222	IQ tests are funny. I did the common one from the High IQ society page (which I think is one of the most accurate internet ones available) awhile back, and raked up a nice 142 (or 146? I forget). I don't think it means all that much, it just shows I have a high aptitude to write their kind of test, despite doing rather poorly on all the word problems. I'm quite good at the ‘visualizing those 25 sided objects that have been flattened out’ questions where they ask you something like 'which of the following are correct representations' followed by a list of flattened out sections of the object but rotated. What does that magic 142 number mean? I have no idea. I've always thought of intelligence being a vector with a very large number of elements that represent facets of different kinds of intelligences. (Go go linear algebra!) People who have a higher magnitude of this vector are smarter. IQ tests will only measure certain components of this vector. I found the test I wrote to measure my best components, such as my math calculation and my visualization abilities. However, someone 'smarter' than me could have done quite poorly while still having a total higher intelligence magnitude. My ISTP dad for example, is bad at math and visualization, and not so great with words either. If I got him to write this test, he would get something ridiculously low. He is however, one of the smartest guys I know. He has an uncanny ability with street smarts and common sense. He also has an unbelievable memory with history and other fact related stuff he's interested in. It's not uncommon for him to hear an old song on the radio and say something like 'This song was written by ___ and it came out in the summer of ___. The first time I heard it, I was driving to ___ '. The strangest thing is, these aren't even choice memories as he’s told me thousands of them and they're rarely ever the same. These of course, are only the one's he's told me, so I have no idea how much of his life he has memorized o.0 An ENFJ friend of mine is a little retarded when it comes to reasoning at times. And has neither my skills, nor my fathers. But there isn't anyone else I would go to for advice on social issues, as she too is one of the smartest people I know. I’m pretty sure that she thinks I think she’s dumb, which entertains me :D The only aspects I have been able to make solid judgments on, is that people with a higher intelligence magnitude than others have a few things in common. They have a higher mental bandwidth, allowing them to calculate or figure out more involving their specialties. This in turn allows them to handle bigger and more complicated puzzles that are able to fit into their bandwidth, to come up with better solutions in a faster amount of time. They also have a memory that's adept for this bandwidth. For example. My father's history memory, my errr robot? memory, and my ENFJ friend's people memory. I've also noticed that they tend to pull up their weaker 'components' as their magnitude gets higher. I never liked history, but I didn't have much problem memorizing the raw facts and doing well on tests... when I took the time to study that is. It’s usually pretty easy to get a feel of someone to figure out how smart they are. In short, I do think that INTJs are smarter on average than most just because of the way our brains are wired. I'm not sure if there is a type out there that thinks more than we do. However, our type also gives us a big advantage in taking common IQ tests making them a little biased.
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09-25-2007, 11:28 AM	#4
Firelie Member [19%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 793	You know what, that's exactly it. Good post, Guido.
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09-25-2007, 02:20 PM	#5
Tarrick Member [17%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 699	Indeed. Our high intuition give us a great advantage while taking those tests.
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09-25-2007, 04:35 PM	#6
The Rose Member [24%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 980	I have scored fairly well on IQ tests in the past.
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09-25-2007, 06:27 PM	#7
Lufus New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 7	I think a lot of it comes back to your drive for self-improvement. Many people in school simply do the work because they're assigned it. INTJ's, on the otherhand, seem more likely to not only do the work, but comprehend it on a level that most don't.
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09-26-2007, 01:29 PM	#8
Rei Veteran Member [52%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,101	Will read the really extremely good and long post later. I got 135 or something, though I'm not sure how accurate that test was. That was a while ago and I feel like I've gotten dumber since. I think university makes people dumb... Anyway, I'm actually more interested in finding out my EQ And yes, INTJ are that smart To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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09-26-2007, 03:58 PM	#10
Apococlock New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 34	I must be an inferior INTJ because I tend to not score so well in the IQ area. Usually I only pull around a 120 (in the national high IQ society), give or take approximately five. I managed to meet their requirements but alas, it isn't something I would pay for. The thing I really struggle with is visual memorization, which is unusual to me because I'm an artist, which means I visually memorize a lot of stuff in order to reproduce it. For whatever reason though I cannot seem to grasp the images the want me to memorize in the amount of time that they give, which means I fail the that area pretty hard. Another thing that gets me is obscure questions about history that I could not possible know. "Who was the ruler of insert generic country here in the year insert distant year here from over a century ago?" That sort of thing gets me, I use context clues the best I can to eliminate possible solutions, and I believe it helps if only a little. Lastly is the Math and English. Both which I can fly through with reletive ease. While I've always despised math (because of the repetition of it as well as how it rarely applied to anything I cared about) I've always been able to easily grasp it. As for English, well, I'm somewhat of a freak at it. So those portions of any test are a cake walk. Patterns are simple, so is a lot of the other logical tests. Despite all of the flaws within my mind, it still is a reasonably high IQ, and since I'm probably the lowest here in that area, it should say a lot about the general INTJ population. edit: And yes, there are many ways to get dumber. It's a matter of habits and memory loss and various other contributors.
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09-26-2007, 05:42 PM	#12
Jack Member [03%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 128	If I can remember that far back I would say my IQ was in the range of about 130-135...It's not like the numbers matter anyways, it's how you use your "Genius", that makes you the intellectual that you are, I love writing and playing guitar...To me these 2 things are quite opposite from each other, and it was realized that this came natural for me in early adolescence.(I am self-taught in alot of meaningless things)I can't stand thinking of myself as a statistic, So!...Individuality is more important to me. As for the % of INTJ's, ENTP's are also considered as 2% as well, I tend to sway between these two types. So being INTJ and tendencies of ENTP with an IQ of 130-35, with the importance of trying to be myself, where does that put me "Statistically" as an individual?
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09-26-2007, 07:25 PM	#14
Romeo Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 142	I think I scored 142.
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09-26-2007, 08:18 PM	#15
StJimmy Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 99	i don't really know what my IQ is but i can say that during highshool i consistently tested in the 98+ percentile on every standardized test i ever took. but then again i have a way with multiple choice, it's like cheating. /shrug
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09-27-2007, 02:41 AM	#16
Max T Member [13%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 526	I score 128- 130. Bright enough to know I'm not that bright (and be able to do something about it). In the investment world, its generally agreed that anything above 125 is superfluous to success, and IQ above 145 can be dangerous as you are either a. overconfident in your abilities (Long Term Capital Management fund implosion) or b. too frustrated by the 'illogical' movements of the markets. Instead, what matters alot is knowing yourself- your cognitive blindspots and general fallibility- and thereby thinking rationally as opposed to 'deeply'. This 'intrapersonal intelligence' that I value is one of Howard Gardner's multiple intelligences To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ... INTJs surely measure dumb in a few areas (e.g. interpersonal and poss. bodily (sporting) intelligence).
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09-30-2007, 04:40 PM	#18
Jbmontag Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 81	Depending on the test, my score ranges from 129 to 142. I prefer multiple intelligence theory to standard IQ tests. I believe the interplay of these different types of intelligence give a more adequate description of human achievement. Almost like the MBTI, every aspect is represented, it is just a matter to what degree.
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09-30-2007, 08:58 PM	#19
Tarrick Member [17%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 699	Oh are we dropping scores then? 142-5. In any event, Jbmontag, do you know of any place to take a multiple intelligence theory test online?
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09-30-2007, 10:18 PM	#20
deicruxified Member [28%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,132	likewise... then when we had the national career exams so just to determine what kind of career would suit us so that we'd know what to take in college, i got superior in math, art, kinesthetics, science and english...i did rank high in multiple intelligences and i'm a balanced brain as well which actually was more trouble coz way back then, i don't know what course i'm going to take. iq's more of math and english which is pretty unfair for others who are inclined in music or art...
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10-02-2007, 02:12 PM	#21
Ian Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 117	I qualified for Mensa in 1983 - just did the test for fun and never really thought too much about having an IQ score in the top 1%. To me, it just means I am good at things called 'IQ tests' , nothing more. Having said that, I could tell the time when I was 2 years old, had my first wrist watch at 3 and got through the first 3 years of infants school in about 12 months - only to be kept back while my peers caught up. I also remember, in those early years, getting into trouble for not doing my addition / sutraction sums using the beads in the plastic pots on the table - I could just look at the problem on the card and write the right answer down. Looking back, now 46, it has been downhill ever since To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10-04-2007, 07:03 PM	#23
phoenix Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 170	Dropping scores: I was formally tested once (not one of those online things, but an actual paid-for IQ test...thanks Mom!). I got 144. I guess it says something that I was a bit disappointed at the time. The one score I'm proudest of was the 800 I got on the analytical portion of the GRE. I figure that makes up for the measly 144 * To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10-05-2007, 02:53 AM	#25
Max T Member [13%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 526	150+ IQ just shows how long the tails to that normal distribution really are (and some poor sods at <50 IQ too). Is the mean (100) fixed over time or likely to rise to say 110 (by today's standards) in 2050? It's joked that the NT Bill Gates would have been useless 1000 years ago, but thrives today. Does that mean in the future more high IQ people will prevail? Conversely, that lower intelligence people will continue to tend to have large families, to support one another against the general unfairness in society. And so balancing out society to remain at 100 IQ.
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