[ENTP gal]

He's the one who wanted the party! I kept saying I don't want to have too many people because there will be a huge mess. But he insisted and even decided the date without asking me. Just can't win. Sigh.

[followthehippos]

I can see myself being in the same situation, laughing as well. Not because of the feelings your express, but because of her 'reaction'. I believe that is what he is laughing about. I don't think he is purposefully being mean about it, just being light hearted about the situation. He honestly doesn't see anything being done wrong.

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 09:21 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by ENTP gal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He's the one who wanted the party! I kept saying I don't want to have too many people because there will be a huge mess. But he insisted and even decided the date without asking me. Just can't win. Sigh.

I'm trying to be helpful, I'm just brainstorming right now trying to analyse the situation from my own perspective. I think Shadizar is off the mark on this one.

[JustMel]

I think the two of you jumped into a serious relationship, buying a house together and all of that way too soon. INTJs tend to get consumed by new toys/relationships/research ideas, etc. We're like a kid who discovers an unlimited supply of sugar only we're grown so we can eat as much as we like, we can bathe in it if we want because no can tell us we can't. A relationship/book/game can all be the "sugar". Eventually we start wondering WTF we were thinking consuming all that sugar. As you mature you tend to try to pace yourself to decide if it's really what you want, (cost/benefit analysis) and if the potential outcome is worth the occasional sugar rushes (insecurity/confusion/self questioning) and their potential effect.

There are a lot of INTJs here who use alcohol or drugs to shut their minds off. A lot.

[followthehippos]

I mean, I used to laugh during similar situations with the ENFP I dated. I don't fully understand the reasons it was funny to me. I wasn't trying to be rude. Perhaps I didn't know how to respond so laughing was just my way of shrugging it off? Maybe that's it. Shrugging off any feeling of taking responsibility. Like, "don't be silly, I didn't do anything wrong. You're being senile, I can't be at fault here"?

[JustMel]

The party thing sounds more like a douche move than an INTJ one. If we have people over and I am getting overwhelmed I excuse myself for a few minutes and tell my husband, who usually can tell before I will admit it, that I need a sanity break and disappear for a few minutes. He'll handle it. Hell he's told me to go lock myself in our room for a while when there have been too many people around. (he's the youngest of 13 so he has a lot of relatives)

[VENUS 2020]

Why are you telling us all this. Talk to him. He knows you are upset but does not know how to address it. Let him know how you feel and what you need. If he can't meet those needs then you can choose to cut him loose or to remain in an unhappy relationship.

[ENTP gal]

JustMel, you're probably right. Again, he was the one initiating everything (moving in together, buying a house, getting engaged, etc..). I somehow went along even if it seemed like things were happening very fast. So maybe he is just confused.

followthehippos, you have been extremely helpful because you are trying to see both sides. Thank you!

Btw, INTJ just got back with his new hair cut and asked me to come and watch TV with him. I should probably go because that is his way of making an effort :-) But I'll be back. I have several INTJ friends but comments from strangers somehow feel more honest because you don't have to sugarcoat things just because you have to get along with me in the future.

[ManWithNoName]

	Originally Posted by followthehippos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can see myself being in the same situation, laughing as well. Not because of the feelings your express, but because of her 'reaction'. I believe that is what he is laughing about. I don't think he is purposefully being mean about it, just being light hearted about the situation. He honestly doesn't see anything being done wrong.

Yeah, I think I might have laughed too. Not at you but more at myself like.

"Oops, that was kind of a total mess and a bit of a surprise. Did not expect to see that coming. Kind of fucked up there."

Like for example my Brother's birthday is on Sunday. I totally forgot about it. He brought it up or something and I was like but you're birthday is on the 20th and he was like yeah, that's this Sunday, and I was like Ohhh, and started laughing. And then he was like I guess you don't have a present for me yet do you and probably wouldn't have gotten one if I hadn't told you my birthday was this Sunday. I just told him I would get him a card or something and was still kind of laughing a bit. Even now when I think about it I still laugh a bit.

The entire time I was laughing though I was like, "Oh God I am a horrible person, almost stereotypically horrible." I'm laughing more at myself because it just feels so ironic in a way, like the brilliant professor who can explain the mathematical workings of quantum physics but can't tie his own shoes.

Or, you know in kind of an awkward sheepish way. Like kind of like how when someone trips or something and does something clumsy, or when they misspeak and say something really embarrassing and they just laugh about it. It's kind of like that, like Oooops, fucked up there didn't I?

And yeah, sometimes people's reactions over something relatively trivial make it even more funnier. Where it's like oh, wow, I really dropped the ball and really have no explanation for that one, I just forgot or didn't see it coming. Where it's like, I'm sorry, I genuinely am, but still, it's kind of funny.

And I think part of it is because to some extent I genuinely see most things coming and so when something unexpected but relatively harmless happiness it's almost a source of amusement.

[Cooper]

60 people in my house? I'd put a bullet in my head for fuck's sake....

What do you want from the guy?

[followthehippos]

Originally Posted by JustMel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The party thing sounds more like a douche move than an INTJ one. If we have people over and I am getting overwhelmed I excuse myself for a few minutes and tell my husband, who usually can tell before I will admit it, that I need a sanity break and disappear for a few minutes. He'll handle it. Hell he's told me to go lock myself in our room for a while when there have been too many people around. (he's the youngest of 13 so he has a lot of relatives)

Here's the kicker, you're a female. An INTJ male may be less likely to realize the need say such things (heck even my ENTJ father would just go off and do his own things). It may seem like a douche move, but I don't think that is his intention.

---------- Post added 05-17-2012 at 10:03 PM ----------

It could be cultural thing as well. My family isn't bothered by such things, but it's culturally acceptable where I'm at. Differing ways of being raised may necessiate different lifestyle, meaning some have different expectations in such social situations. For instance, those who live in below middle class will just walk into the homes of family or friends, without even knocking (happens where I am). It is entirely acceptable. In richer social classes it is proper for them to escort you out. I've offended such individuals because I invite myself out, not knowing the proper social expectations. That may be a piece as well. His INTJ lack of social 'respect' and raising and hers may be different. It's a difference of understanding, not purposeful rudeness.

[Cozzine]

	Originally Posted by Shadizar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Who wants a house warming? What's the purpose? Show a whole lot of people what you have that's stealable? Hope he learned his lesson, never more than ten people, and they can bring their own damn booze.

I concur with your statement concerning housewarming parties. These 'parties' are social nightmares that would leave me going to bed too. What is the 'point' of housewarming parties? Why was it even brought up to begin with?
Before I left home in my late teens, I avoided parties of even five people that my parents would host (I wasn't on familiar grounds with these people). But sixty!

You know, now that I think about your INTJ's hysterical approach ENTP Gal, I've done that before too. For some reason, I find the most absurd stuff hilarious at times. It is like a part of my brain just tips over the edge, and I go into giggles at the most innappropriate time.
A good example was when I was talking to a superior with a friend in a park, and a guy comes stumbling through the bushes limping with a dragging leg, alcohol in hand, and when my superior confronted him, the guy's head would have rolled off had it not been connected to his shoulder.

When he limped away, I just couldn't stop laughing. A few minutes later when I conjured up a serious demeanor, I would quietly chuckle every now and then to my friend's bemusement.
I think what it is, is my mind attempting to analyze the situation, and finds it absurd to the point of being logically illogical where the mind just breaks down. I doubt that is accurate, or even correct, but what my mind does is apply the state of 'reaction' of my environment (people, shadows, objects, etc; I don't always, but sometimes my mind seems to contantly try to guess the reactions of the environment around me), and the stimuli throws a wrench into my gears thus stimulating an overload. I find everything to be hilarious then, in particular whatever stands out (the drunk man; or in the case of your INTJ, your behavior and approach).
As an example of what your INTJ might be thinking of (and trust me, it is a lot more complex than this):
- Why is she pissed? Have I done something wrong?
- Oh, she's upset about my going to sleep last night? Why was that wrong?
- I think I am beginning to understand. Maybe? It doesn't sound logical that she would be upset. Wasn't it her idea to host the party? I was tired, frustrated, and overwhelmed so I went to bed, as would anyone else in those physical and mental circumstances.
- So she basically ran around like a chicken with its head cut off, eyes rolling as she sought to be social, to be a good host, which all seems a waste of time as societal niceties can be cumbersome, and I was in bed slipping into unconsciousness.
- That book was great! The character development peaked in its performance...the symbolic representation of the...What should I have for dinner [checks mental grocery list]. Why is the lamp shade on sideways? How come it is getting cold in here? Is the air conditioning really on?
- The grass seems to be dying. The Ph might be off. Maybe there is an abundance of nitrogen in the soil...need to check the bank balance and generate a spreadsheet of current expenses...allocation of money needs to be efficient...
- Why is she waving her arms in my face!? Wow, I am finding this entertaining!

All I know is that this requires more research and cannot be adequately described as a conclusive theory of why hysterics sometimes takes the mind. I still don't fully understand why my mind does that, as it only happens every now and then and not on a continous basis or in a predictable enough manner to initiate an observational analysis of all the variables, correlations and other data. If it could be planned, then sparked, it might be easier to develop an understanding of situation.

[Lilie]

	Originally Posted by Cozzine To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wasn't it her idea to host the party?

Nope. So his thoughts were probably more along the lines of "Oh wow, how did I convince myself that THAT was a good idea?? That doesn't make any sense at all!!" I can see myself cracking up over that kind of situation, though I'd also try to explain it and not just giggle hysterically over what was in retrospect incredibly poor judgment on my part.

I wouldn't buy a house with someone I just met, no matter how much I liked him though. I'd also put the brakes on hard if someone I just met suggested buying a house. So it's not just a personality issue but mainly a general maturity level issue, on both sides.

[PurpleGiraffe]

	Originally Posted by Lilie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	general maturity level issue

Yes, I think herein lies the problem, in my humble opinion. Has this INTJ shown signs yet of taking responsibility for his actions, OP? Moving in super fast, planning things without thinking about the consequences, laughing when he is presented with his mistake, making your mother cry because he ignored you in front of her and told you not to annoy him.

Seriously, name five instances where he hasn't thus far acted like a large child with a PhD. Oh, heck, name ONE. We'll start from there.

[ENTP gal]

This forum is amazing! So many so analytical comments - then again, most of you are INTJs ;-)

There are many different things that affect the way he is. He is half Asian and grew up with a Tiger Mom. I have personally witnessed her tell her grandkids not to show their emotions (the total opposite of my touchy-feely hugging family). That combined with being an INTJ and (possibly) slightly autistic... And yes, somewhat different social backgrounds too. His family is working class, mine middle class - even if we are both now very successful professionals. We also come from different countries (but we're living in his). I guess I am just much more interested in understanding different people, cultures, religions, etc. and have also been exposed to things more than he has. So that is why I am trying to be the "adult" here because I know that because of all that (+being an ENTP and someone with intuition that sometimes scares people with its accuracy) I am the one who has to help him figure things out and not the other way round.

One of my best friends is an INTJ and from the country his Tiger Mom is originally from so fortunately I have someone who can help me when I am feeling totally confused. She restored my mental balance again today by explaining certain things that didn't seem to make sense to me.

The truth is I don't think I can find anyone else who is a better partner to me. Because of my rants here I may have made him sound horrible but when he is not in his cave he is the man I thought wouldn't even exist. Everything just works smoothly and it just feels like this was meant to be. So even if I feel like I just want to walk away when he behaves like a big baby, I know I don't want to. I just need to figure out how to best deal with his personality.

[el girard]

Hi, ENTP gal.

Please try to keep in mind that social interaction can be incredibly draining for us. We are at our best, socially, after being alone for a while.

Just the fact that he has stuck around with you is a very high compliment; so he must really like you a lot, even if it doesn't always appear this way. This is a really important thing to remember.


It is a really good sign that you are trying to understand him, I wish you both the best.

[cassiemodo]

I'm floored by Cooper's succinct breakdown of my internal process.

[Canopus]

I can relate to 100% of Cooper and Mel's comments - doesn't leave much for me to add. But I'll try anyway.

Everyone is different, but some of his behavior is odd to me - it is like he does not understand himself well enough, afterall, a man's got to know his limitations. Sixty people in our house - I would be fighting that one with every fiber in my body, not contributing to adding to the number - and as another said "a bullet in the head" is always a good choice for a situation like that. But, then leaving an obligation - odd to me - I would be in the kitchen cleaning up, organizing, keeping stuff from being damaged, etc, and there to the end (praying it was already over). Afterwards, we'd have a talk about this never happening again. But abandoning a duty? Never.

When he is in a "normal" frame of mind, I would sit him down and rationally explain the consequences of his behavior, ask for a detail account of himself. He had time to think it through, so he has the answers. As an INTJ, he should be highly motivated to self-improve everything including himself. So, pointing out his flaws in a constructive way, providing motivation on why it is important for him to address it, hopefully will see efforts at improvement.

[superflax]

How this thread is 3 pages is beyond me.
I hate to sound harsh and I have been biting my tongue but this guy is a fucking jerk.
If you don't like it leave. No one is forcing you to be with him but I just feel like you've come here for a bitching session because one minute you're all about how you're trying to understand next minute you're looking at him like he's a child.
He's not an experiment you can use to understand INTJs better, he's a jerk.
End of.

[Lilie]

	Originally Posted by ENTP gal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There are many different things that affect the way he is. He is half Asian and grew up with a Tiger Mom.

Oooh. I lived in Asia for four years and left knowing for absolute certain that I would never get involved with anyone from an Asian culture. It's just way too different, meaning what I would call acting like a whiny baby is acceptable (sometimes even desirable) behavior in a relationship for both sexes. What I would call passive aggression is considered a valid and nuanced communication style.

I don't know his/your particular circumstances so I don't really know what more to say.

[gypsy stardust]

Originally Posted by ENTP gal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually what you say makes perfect sense. When you mentioned walking out of social situations you made me think about our housewarming party. We had 60 people in our house and at 9pm my INTJ just decided it was too much and went to bed. So I was left alone taking care of 60 guests (food, drinks, cleaning up, etc.) and the last person left at 1:30am. Fortunately my friends are very helpful so someone took over the bar, someone else started collecting empty dishes, and so on. But then I was still the one apologizing on his behalf because he just disappeared without saying a word to anyone. The next morning he thought it was really funny. Funny?! Seriously, the next time I will have the party catered if I can't trust my partner to be around to help me host.

Holy hell! Did he WANT this housewarming party? or did he just yeah, whatever the idea?

I can tell you without a doubt, I would never have consented to 60 people invading my space for interminable hours. You'd be lucky to get me to hold off for 9:00 before locking myself in the bedroom for the night.

The last person left at 1:30 am? What the fuck! Was there no start and end time for this fiasco?

Holy crap on a cracker. I would have had a stroke...

[Futures]

Just to quickly touch on the laughter, I started chuckling when I read that too. The absurdity of things gets me, even during serious times. If I'm with family sometimes I laugh at something which on its face could be considered sad. But its an underlying issue that I'm laughing at,like the circumstances that led to everything. My sister simply says "you're a horrible person" usually while I'm still laughing.

[searcheagle]

Originally Posted by superflax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

How this thread is 3 pages is beyond me. I hate to sound harsh and I have been biting my tongue but this guy is a fucking jerk. If you don't like it leave. No one is forcing you to be with him but I just feel like you've come here for a bitching session because one minute you're all about how you're trying to understand next minute you're looking at him like he's a child. He's not an experiment you can use to understand INTJs better, he's a jerk. End of.

Yeah, at this point, I'm trying to see the attractive qualities of this guy. Everything the OP has described have been jerkish/immature at best.

I understand everyone's point about the housewarming parties, making me feel claustrophobic and annoyed. But I know that and don't host them, so I can leave them. I would never dream of hosting an event and bailing before the event was over.

Surely, he had to have known that too. So, why did he want to have the part with 60, 6-0 people, many of which he invited people to.

OP, if you can't trust him to host a party without ditching you, thinking its funny, how can you trust him when things get tough?

You currently have a roommate not a romantic partner.

[Shadizar]

	Originally Posted by searcheagle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I understand everyone's point about the housewarming parties, making me feel claustrophobic and annoyed. But I know that and don't host them, so I can leave them. I would never dream of hosting an event and bailing before the event was over.

We've all tried something to the effect, maybe not nearly as grand, but usually it's the first and last time we pull such a stunt.

[LifesEcstasy]

OK - The revelation of the Asian male suddenly this all makes sense. Honey if this is the beginning prepare for more to come.

Just saying - red flags in the OP were he knew we would get married from the get-go, he just assumed an engagement without proposing. That's a lot of decision-making going on about both of you, with only one person participating.

	Originally Posted by superflax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How this thread is 3 pages is beyond me. I hate to sound harsh and I have been biting my tongue but this guy is a fucking jerk.

This.

And Asian culture for males = I am the lord of the manor and will make my decisions completely and totally independent of you then hand down my verdict when I am good and ready.

How do I know this? 6 Asian (Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Thai, not westernised) boyfriends can't be wrong. Is he by any chance the eldest son? If so, get a gun and shoot yourself now. Adding babies and an extended family to this scenario will not be fun for you.

If your SO is nearing 30 the parents are demanding their grandchildren and that he get married pronto. He doesn't want to get married and will not think married life is any different to single life....for him. Hence the no proposal, it's just something his mom is forcing on him. Did he buy you a ring or is his mom organising that?