[ps646566]

I read with interest and some amusement the thread suggesting an "INTJ Manual’’, with a view to helping the rest of the human race to deal with this strange ‘sub-species’ in which we find ourselves !

It is probably typically INTJ to expect the world at large to change in order to better accommodate us. But it isn’t going to happen. I therefore think that a more useful exercise might be a manual FOR INTJ’s. Perhaps being older than the average user of the forum, I can offer some perspective on how to cope with life in general. Forgive me if these homilies sound like stating the obvious, but in my experience they are not necessarily adhered to by those who would benefit from adhering to them. I wish that I had done so to a greater extent earlier in life :-

• Adolescence is difficult for most people -- all the more so if you feel, and seem, a bit ‘different’. However it does get easier as you grow up, especially if you are prepared to make some effort to conform, where conformity is not too compromising that is.

• Don’t get too preoccupied with believing yourself to be special or different. A downside of a website like this is that it can reinforce such beliefs. Contrary to what some people would argue, the personality distinctions are not black and white, but are in fact shades of grey. Anyway we are all different by virtue of conditioning factors -- upbringing, life experience etc. People of other personality traits have their problems too, eg vulnerability, lack of assertiveness, or lack of perseverance.

• Most people cannot tolerate being confronted with the uncomfortable truth, but we are masters at delivering it. This is especially the case when it's accompanied by the feeling that we can see right through them – which we often can. It therefore helps to train yourself to think before speaking, and to hold back when the likely adverse consequences outweigh the beneficial ones (and let’s face it we should be good at figuring that one out).

• Sticking to one’s principles and beliefs will certainly help you to sleep nights. But it comes at a price, and such an approach does not make life any easier in many situations. It helps to accept that you can’t have it all ways – be philosophical.

• Other people’s stupidity, laziness, incompetence, and insincerity will no doubt frequently surprise, irritate, and depress you. Accept that the nature of society reflects in large part people whose brains are wired differently from ours (after all we apparently represent only 2% of the population, and our INTP soul-mates another 3%). Get over it -- it’s a very imperfect world.

• Regarding conflicts and confrontations, firstly learn to pick the battles which are big enough to fight but small enough to win. Secondly learn to pick targets carefully and (at least sometimes) snipe from behind chimneys rather than going in all-guns-blazing.

• If and when accused of not being a ‘team player’, or suchlike, it often helps to invite the accuser to state exactly what they mean by ‘the team’, and what are it’s primary objective/s. This approach does not win many friends (see above point), but does tend to disarm the protagonist, and in rare cases may even induce them to reconsider their stance to the benefit of all.

• Unless you are Richard the Lionheart, don’t try to lead crusades.

• Most people judge others on a fairly superficial basis, especially initially. So getting on better with people can to some extent be a forced exercise, with a few old tricks :- smile, give a firm handshake, make deliberate eye contact, remember names and use them, indulge in small talk and crack a few jokes. These things do not necessarily come naturally, but they can be self-trained with a bit of effort.

• Don’t try to be what you’re not -- play to your strengths, and play down your weaknesses. This applies in private as well as working life, and may in fact be easier outside the work environment. For example, if too much interaction with others is irksome, then don’t get too involved in joining clubs or societies, and especially don’t get involved with committees, etc.

• Nobody likes a smart-arse, but they sometimes grudgingly respect them. Nevertheless your intelligence, logic, and rationality will not always be acknowledged or appreciated. Sadly, being right often has nothing to do with it. People with less intellect, but other ‘attributes’, such as persuasive charm, bullying ability, or animal cunning will use these to steal a march on you, often successfully. Again, be philosophical.

• Chances are that little that you ever say or do will make any significant difference. Wanting to change the world for the better is a worthy aim of youth, but it will only lead to disillusionment if carried too far into adult life. And anyway let’s be logical and realistic -- how many people ever really do make a significant difference ?


Any other suggestions, especially from those who have substantial life experience ?

[mind_wander]

Thanx, for the A manual for INTJ's self guide. Interesting stuff, there are certain areas in I can relate to from my own experience. Realistically, being INTJ is a hard job to adapt into any environment, but it can be realistically be done. Probably, once the INTJ manual for dummies is done, then moving over to this side; the counterparts.

Great job, pats on the back and a firm handshake.

[wise]

These are some of the most useful and interesting comments on INTJs that I've read.

The point about not being too preoccupied with your "differences" is a good one. I think this can carry over into the online arena. INTJs have to remember that among other INTJs they are nothing "special" and not the only sharp knife in the drawer, so to speak.

Thanks for the list.

[Nomad]

Actually, that's pretty complete, but I have some thoughts. Most people rise to their level of incompetence, with patience, you can give them just enough rope to hang themselves.

Most bosses don't really want efficient, effective employees, they don't know what to do with them. Be philosophical about it.

I want to reiterate the OP's thought. We are 2%. It means the world was built for the rest of population, not you. They don't want you to save them.

Have some fun, life is short, you don't need to understand everything. learn to simply enjoy things, rather than analyzing everything. It's about finding your pace and place, which is usually slower and less center than we like to believe.

I personally enjoy it when my boss get all the grief and i get all the respect.

-Nomad

[mind_wander]

"I personally enjoy it when my boss get all the grief and i get all the respect."

Nice one, yeah I do like that, does make me feel that I accomplished something.

[wise]

	Originally Posted by Nomad
	I personally enjoy it when my boss get all the grief and i get all the respect. -Nomad

However, a dominant boss can work an INTJ to death and leave them with zero credit. It all depends on how cunning the boss is; sometimes they are as cunning as INTJs.

Not analyzing things too much is problematic for INTJs, or so it would seem. Good idea, great advice, but I find it hard to apply in my life; I analyze automatically. One the one hand I like it that way, on the other hand I'd say "Tell me how you do that...please!"
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[mind_wander]

Me too, my analyzing system just jump starts, when things are spoken.

[Nomad]

Originally Posted by wise

Originally Posted by Nomad I personally enjoy it when my boss get all the grief and i get all the respect. -Nomad However, a dominant boss can work an INTJ to death and leave them with zero credit. It all depends on how cunning the boss is; sometimes they are as cunning as INTJs. Not analyzing things too much is problematic for INTJs, or so it would seem. Good idea, great advice, but I find it hard to apply in my life; I analyze automatically. One the one hand I like it that way, on the other hand I'd say "Tell me how you do that...please!" To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I listen to a lot of Jimmy Buffett. At one point in my life I had been burning myself to the ground, working hard, then working some more, and then going to work. I said screw this, and took a six month vacation to the far side of the world. I just stopped and watched the ocean, went diving, drank beer on the veranda, watched the birds. I still found the systems around me, and in fact learned a great deal about how things work, like metasysems, how organisms operate in their environments, and came to lots of startling conclusions.

We get annoyed when other folks don't make sense. Well, there must be some reason for that. There must be some reason for just plain fun, for relaxation.Think of it as a problem. :D It's not easy, but life is meant to be enjoyed, and well as being made efficient.

Think of that scene in Phenomenon, when he just watches the trees sway.

-Nomad

[xtremegeek]

Phenomenon

I love that movie! But I think the ultimate display of INTJ (strengths and weaknesses) can be found in the movie Shopgirl.

[orange]

great advice. My dad, as an older INTJ, has taught me much of what you said. As for the manual I and I think most of us know that It wont help people actually understand us. I just think that makeing the manual is fun.

[Chain]

Not to revive ancient threads, but I found this one humorously true. I think taking the OP to heart would solve half of our problems.

I think the only thing I can add is: Become good friends with an extroverted feeling type or two. They'll not only happily do your networking leg work for you, but they'll balance out your steam roller style in social situations, including running interference or ocassionally cleaning up the aftermath if need be.

	Originally Posted by Nomad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I want to reiterate the OP's thought. We are 2%. It means the world was built for the rest of population, not you. They don't want you to save them. -Nomad

This is a lesson I had to learn the hard way. Another way to sum up the point would be to recall part of a conversation I had with an old IXFP roommate once:

Chain: WTH is the matter with people?
IXFP: They don't want to listen to you or accept your ways.
Chain: If it wasn't for people like me the world wouldn't turn.
IXFP: If it wasn't for people like you, they wouldn't know they were screwing things up. They'd be fat, dumb and happy, and that's the way they want to be. Deal with it.

[Synapse]

Thank you for this, it is quite true. Also helps us stay out of conflicts and all that. I think, though, that if you are going to lead a crusade, do it from behind someone else. Use them as the figurehead and be the "puppet master" behind them. That always seems to work.
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[Gaye]

To add.. when crusading make sure there IS someone in front...they sometimes sneak around behind under the glare of the logic

[Synapse]

	Originally Posted by Gaye To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To add.. when crusading make sure there IS someone in front...they sometimes sneak around behind under the glare of the logic

Not if they possess enough self-confidence to think that they're actually doing something correct.

Remember, the most confident people can also be quite dumb, vice-versa.

[Shinqui]

I would add, learn to trust your own intuition and intellect instead of listening and doing what well meaning, but usually non empathetic friends and family members advise you to do with your self.

That was a hard lesson to learn.

[awildrose]

What a great resource. I have often wished there was a manual to consult when I find myself in awkward social situations. Once I took an MMPI and the person who gave me the results thought that it must be a mis-test because it showed such a spike in the area of my being introverted. He could hardly believe it when I told him that the test had accurately described me, and that I work Very Hard Every Day to overcome this. He wouldn't have pegged me as an introvert at all.

Its really good to learn some social traits that you can comfortably put on when you need too. Even so, I still find it hard to be a socializer, and often don't quite know what it was that I did wrong sometimes when bad situations happen.

A few of the things I have learned, though, are helpful. First, people are never going to be as interested in it as you are. Holding back a bit can be a good thing. Second, think ahead, winning a battle can be good, but winning a battle and losing the war is always bad. Sometimes its good to let things go, give in a bit.

Anyhow, enough for a first post. I'd forgotten to get back to the forum for a long time, but, smiles, some thoughtful administrator here sent me a birthday wish last week, nice of them, so thought I'd check back in. - Pam

[Nomadofthehills]

	Originally Posted by Nomad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I want to reiterate the OP's thought. We are 2%. It means the world was built for the rest of population, not you. They don't want you to save them.

But I bet we could do it more efficiently.

[ElstonGunn]

Self-identification as part of a small group based on a largely arbitrarily-defined theory does not make you unique. It just says that you value being thought of as unique. And when you think about it, everybody wants to be unique, at least in "good" or "special" ways.

[SeaCzar]

I am glad this thread was revived, as I had not read it previously. Humour, with some good points thrown in. I remember taking the MBTI exam for the first time about ten years ago. I had no familiarity with Myers Briggs at all, and when I typed INTJ (very strong on all the letters) it literally scared me. I felt that there was a ghost in the room looking into my head, and I was reading the results. Trippy.

[buk]

Originally Posted by SeaCzar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am glad this thread was revived, as I had not read it previously. Humour, with some good points thrown in. I remember taking the MBTI exam for the first time about ten years ago. I had no familiarity with Myers Briggs at all, and when I typed INTJ (very strong on all the letters) it literally scared me. I felt that there was a ghost in the room looking into my head, and I was reading the results. Trippy.

I know what you mean about a ghost in the room, sometimes my mind sees too much.





buk added to this post, 2 minutes and 13 seconds later...

Originally Posted by Nomad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I listen to a lot of Jimmy Buffett. At one point in my life I had been burning myself to the ground, working hard, then working some more, and then going to work. I said screw this, and took a six month vacation to the far side of the world. I just stopped and watched the ocean, went diving, drank beer on the veranda, watched the birds. I still found the systems around me, and in fact learned a great deal about how things work, like metastases, how organisms operate in their environments, and came to lots of startling conclusions. We get annoyed when other folks don't make sense. Well, there must be some reason for that. There must be some reason for just plain fun, for relaxation.Think of it as a problem. :D It's not easy, but life is meant to be enjoyed, and well as being made efficient. Think of that scene in Phenomenon, when he just watches the trees sway. -Nomad

Nomad, could you elaborate on the conclusions you came to with regards to seeing how things operate. I experience this a lot, and would love to hear someone's take on the subject.

[hallucinogen]

Great info.

Also, I'd like to add that breaking the mechanical and logical thought process we always go through can be new fun and even insightful. Just let go and relax.
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[naughtysnail]

	Originally Posted by Nomad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Most bosses don't really want efficient, effective employees, they don't know what to do with them. Be philosophical about it. -Nomad

So painfully, painfully true. And so difficult to learn when you've been brought up with parents who tell you, "You're wonderful and smart and dedicated and hard working, who wouldn't want to employ you?" The you enter at teh bottom rung of the ladder, and discover that, actually, not everyone is terribly enthusiastic that you finish all your work in a third of the time it's supposed to take you.