[MechanicalSun]

First of all, "Hello ladies and gentleman member of the forum and visitors":

I would like to call you attention in order to inquire/share-with you about the plans some of us have for the World's fate(the so-called Master Plan).

On my side, I can say my plan revolves around a return to balance with nature and its ways and achieve overall happiness/equilibriumthrough conscientious technological/social cultural evolution of the human species.

Don't want to overextend on my plan, since the purpose of this post is to share and exchange ideas. But here is an overview:

Method and procedures: Explore/understand Nature and its ways of function from the tiniest particle into the Universe wide principles.
Focus point being life, and inside of this intelligence. Going through social/personal behavior, explaining them by the laws of physics(and applied psychology).

Objective/Ideal: Be able to influence the path of the human civilization to achieve the "ultimate natural balance". A sort of communist/socialist perspective but carved and polished by scientific knowledge. Somewhat in accordance with the Zeitgeist movement, but with a more concrete/feasible approach by modifying the current model and not a drastic discard and take over of power by scientists. In my opinion, the human society must achieve a balance, measure by satisfaction/happiness levels in order to integrate/symbiotically associate with the rest of the natural universe.
The key/driving concept for this ideal society is meritocracy.

Ok, time to cut it there, I hope you get the overall idea.

How about you? Do you have some sort of master plan? What is it about?(please try to be brief so this runs for long
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)

And if not or don't feel like sharing, feel free to comment on my plan or the ones that might come after this.

Have fun and, "Let the games begin"
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!

[HIDE="For those disliking my writing."]Sorry if my writing is confusing or plain bad, english isn't my mother-tongue and don't excel in redaction/written communication. Also don't burn me too hard, this is my first thread
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[/HIDE]

[MrDoom]

My master plan is to stop attempting to override the will and wishes of others with nebulous ideology and misguided dreams of utopia. To let go and just let the world be.

[zibber]

I want to continue dividing my time between living in my little urban niche (rent-free space on a houseboat in a relatively very peaceful area, working two/three days a week and dividing my vast amounts of leisure time between recreation and physical/spiritual/ideological development) and working towards my dream of finding/founding a good ass self-sufficient tribe far from any big city.

I got pretty deep into revolutionary activism for a good year or so and made major leaps in my ideological/political thinking, but I just can't bank on the fact that out of all revolutionaries in every period in history, I will be part of the generation that sees the first true international social revolution. Most every revolutionary will tell you my current ideas about my future are pure and simple escapism, but I just want to be happy now.

[MechanicalSun]

Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I want to continue dividing my time between living in my little urban niche (rent-free space on a houseboat in a relatively very peaceful area, working two/three days a week and dividing my vast amounts of leisure time between recreation and physical/spiritual/ideological development) and working towards my dream of finding/founding a good ass self-sufficient tribe far from any big city. I got pretty deep into revolutionary activism for a good year or so and made major leaps in my ideological/political thinking, but I just can't bank on the fact that out of all revolutionaries in every period in history, I will be part of the generation that sees the first true international social revolution. Most every revolutionary will tell you my current ideas about my future are pure and simple escapism, but I just want to be happy now.

Wow, pretty deep and honest. Respect.

Regarding the underlined text(in my opinion): You are making already a change by carrying out your project, in a way, your own revolution. Will it settle the grounds for something bigger? Maybe. (but that's just me be being optimistic).
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[Nadette]

Both of you seem pretty cool.
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Zibber, have you considered that most revolutionaries have been ENFPs and we aren't exactly known for being good at finishing projects? Maybe you have more of a shot being INTJ and all...

My plan... I don't have much faith in my plan. I mostly just want everyone to be nice to each other. I like libertarian socialism and anarchy. Maybe someday I will work for the US Department of Education and make moves toward a more ethical and just education system...which will lead to better everything else. That is my biggest dream.

[jawa]

I don't have a Master Plan exactly, though I would join forces with others and contribute to bringing the world to order. If I could choose what will happen, I'd do much the same as you suggest-- devise a way of becoming balanced with nature. Humans have polluted far too much and continue down the mindless materialism path (I mean this purely in a economic consumerist way).

I believe to get away from all this bullshit we first need to educate the individual. We need to teach practical skills in school and actually appreciate creativity and ingeniousness otherwise ignored because it doesn't fit into the current academic mould.

We also need to teach people independence. This is easy for us INTJs, but others need to learn and embrace it. People should naturally want to do their own thing and not be so highly influenced by the media and government. We need to go back to self-sufficiency, with people preferring to keep up their own garden than to buy produce from whatever big box, non-local market. People need to be encouraged to do DIY projects and repairs, and ultimately put the economy back in the hands of the people.

I believe that if we can change the individual, everything else will naturally fall into place.

[MechanicalSun]

@Nadette and Jawa, Education is effectively a key point to mold our current society cultural/spiritual state into something more just and satisfying for everyone.
With the debacle of religion people are recurring to the frivolity/money/pop-culture to ind satisfaction, setting them even as goals in some cases
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.

About the capitalism - and the intrinsic egoism it carries- I think it has to go, or even be modified substantially in order to revert what is going one.

[jawa]

Capitalism is a fine principle, it's just when corporations develop and monopolize the market, all the while being exempt from laws because they are not a single person but still reaping the benefits of personhood, that capitalism becomes a problem.

But in all honesty, if the world is to change in such a drastic and sudden manner as anyone's Master Plan would entail, there is no doubt in my mind a group of INTJs would be the ones to accomplish this. Not a single INTJ, but many. They could collaborate until they've made the perfect plan and then either split it up so it's manageable or pass on jobs to the helper/follower type personalities.

But really, if we just work together we could get things done.

[MechanicalSun]

Originally Posted by jawa To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Capitalism is a fine principle, it's just when corporations develop and monopolize the market, all the while being exempt from laws because they are not a single person but still reaping the benefits of personhood, that capitalism becomes a problem. But in all honesty, if the world is to change in such a drastic and sudden manner as anyone's Master Plan would entail, there is no doubt in my mind a group of INTJs would be the ones to accomplish this. Not a single INTJ, but many. They could collaborate until they've made the perfect plan and then either split it up so it's manageable or pass on jobs to the helper/follower type personalities. But really, if we just work together we could get things done.

I agree to some extent, people contribute to the society/government's budget by spending money(and/or earning). They mostly think of themselves thou, personal success being the driving force.

While it works, it doesn't encourage a "supportive/generous towards the others" attitude. Moreover it needs the existence of poverty ... which I find unjust to say the least.
Again, education is key.

[Zodd]

	Originally Posted by MrDoom To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My master plan is to stop attempting to override the will and wishes of others with nebulous ideology and misguided dreams of utopia. To let go and just let the world be.

I don't like this attitude but don't really hate it either. It doesn't help the world and the world needs help.

I'm going to stereotype you know. Guys like you are always laidback and fun too hang around with and just all around good guys who'll help a friend in need. But you don't really try too think about how you could do better (and if you are in the long run a positive influence on the greater happiness of the universe instead of detrimental) because you are happy and you see you bring happiness too the people around you (well you see it this way, even if it might not be true in some/most cases.)

[DesertKnight]

I'm just waiting for the zombie reset.

In all seriousness though, I used to have a much larger ideology on this matter but have since found efforts to actually enact what I see in my head utterly futile. The scope and scale of what is wrong with this world the way it is is so large no one person will ever be able to fix it; even if you see a way to do so.

No amount of talking will ever fix any of the problems we are faced with today and that is all the world seems to be content with doing. To me there is simply no point, that isn't to say I'm all doom and gloom about the future I just believe that we will simply continue to stagnate in both an environmental and societal manner. In this regard I stopped trying to fix the world and am now just trying to make sure my family is well taken care of.

I answered option two by the way.

[firebee]

	Originally Posted by MechanicalSun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	With the debacle of religion people are recurring to the frivolity/money/pop-culture to ind satisfaction, setting them even as goals in some cases To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

Clearly, everyone needs their very own personal sophomore to tell them what their goals ought to be.

[Xanthippe]

Any master plan I've been able to come up with would quickly fall victim to mass stupidity. Systems that rely on humans to be decent and responsible are obviously doomed to failure, or imperfect realisation at best. The only "utopian" systems that seem even remotely viable resemble Brave New World and are ethically disastrous.

Some sort of compromise between capitalism and socialism seems like the only way, hopefully with extensive reforms to prevent corruption and to overhaul welfare policy. Unfortunately, people are too short-sighted, fanatical and dishonest even for this.

The only hope is if science progresses quickly enough to help us reverse the environmental damage and develop sustainable resources. But science doesn't get enough funding with all these pointless wars going on.

[MechanicalSun]

Originally Posted by DesertKnight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm just waiting for the zombie reset. In all seriousness though, I used to have a much larger ideology on this matter but have since found efforts to actually enact what I see in my head utterly futile. The scope and scale of what is wrong with this world the way it is is so large no one person will ever be able to fix it; even if you see a way to do so. No amount of talking will ever fix any of the problems we are faced with today and that is all the world seems to be content with doing. To me there is simply no point, that isn't to say I'm all doom and gloom about the future I just believe that we will simply continue to stagnate in both an environmental and societal manner. In this regard I stopped trying to fix the world and am now just trying to make sure my family is well taken care of. I answered option two by the way.

Yeah, unfortunately becoming pessimistic is almost unavoidable as life passes and becomes "aware" of the complexity of the problems. However, as long as there are chances of improvement, there is hope, i think.

Originally Posted by Xanthippe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Any master plan I've been able to come up with would quickly fall victim to mass stupidity. Systems that rely on humans to be decent and responsible are obviously doomed to failure, or imperfect realisation at best. The only "utopian" systems that seem even remotely viable resemble Brave New World and are ethically disastrous. Some sort of compromise between capitalism and socialism seems like the only way, hopefully with extensive reforms to prevent corruption and to overhaul welfare policy. Unfortunately, people are too short-sighted, fanatical and dishonest even for this. The only hope is if science progresses quickly enough to help us reverse the environmental damage and develop sustainable resources. But science doesn't get enough funding with all these pointless wars going on.

The mere existence of people thinking like you is relieving. Frustration is comprehensible, but hardly productive for your dream's consummation or moving in that direction at least.

I don't know, but for me it's hard to not try to do what i can to achieve what I want.
Maybe I won't achieve it, but the satisfaction of having put "a pebble" towards building your "dream" is incomparable.

I know this might have sounded a bit cliched, but that's how i see it. Motivation is the driving force of actions and your biggest dreams are the strongest motivations, giving the greatest rewards.

[Satyagrahi]

This
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but everyone is either too conditioned by failed systems and ideology, too narcissistic to want to change anything or a complete sociopath running the current puppet show.

[Zodd]

Thinking about what you could do too immediatly change the world for better with you in the leadrole isn't helpfull, you'll probably end up doing nothing but thinking.

There isn't probably an immediate solution anyways, the first world people need to become aware/caring/more social/honest/not lying too themselves first before something can change significantly. Focus on that. It isn't that hard even, just keep talking too people in what you believe in and why you think they are stupid and evil, support smart honest people, don't support stupid, evil, lying people. Even your vote for a political party might help.

[MechanicalSun]

Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thinking about what you could do too immediatly change the world for better with you in the leadrole isn't helpfull, you'll probably end up doing nothing but thinking. There isn't probably an immediate solution anyways, the first world people need to become aware/caring/more social/honest/not lying too themselves first before something can change significantly. Focus on that. It isn't that hard even, just keep talking too people in what you believe in and why you think they are stupid and evil, support smart honest people, don't support stupid, evil, lying people. Even your vote for a political party might help.

Yeah as long as people conscientiously do what "they can" to help others, it's fine.
To each its own.

[Zodd]

"To each its own"

You mean that in the way that you think that if I torture my dog but if I think it's moral it's fine? Or don't you agree with me?

Besides I think like only maybe 5% procent of the people is truly acting consientiously, the rest are all lying too themselves, so full of shit, so afraid to be afraid or feel a little less happy, inhaling their farts, circlejerking, lying.

[MechanicalSun]

	Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"To each its own" You mean that in the way that you think that if I torture my dog but if I think it's moral it's fine? Or don't you agree with me? Besides I think like only maybe 5% procent of the people is truly acting consientiously, the rest are all lying too themselves, so full of shit, so afraid to be afraid or feel a little less happy, inhaling their farts, circlejerking, lying.

I just meant "every person is entitled to have it's own plan and carrying out the way they please" without being prey of judgements/criticism.
For example: I love plants, my life plan will be planting one tree every week of my life for the rest of my life. It is as "valid/important" as any other plan
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.

About torturing dogs, [HIDE="..."]
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[/HIDE]

[Zodd]

So Hitler's plan was just as valid and important as others? I don't believe that.

---------- Post added 05-13-2012 at 03:58 PM ----------

Someone who tries too help someone eventhough he doesn't believe in it is more important than someone who tries too kill someone who does believe it to be totally moral, imo.

This is getting more philosophical, but it's just stupid too let stupid people do what they think is right.

---------- Post added 05-13-2012 at 04:00 PM ----------

I don't know if I'm right about anything, but it is what I think is right so I try too force that onto others. I could not do that but in my mind the world would then be not so good as when I would.

[Autumnleaf]

My master plan is to stay away from people who want to tell me what to do or how to live.

The problem with trying to save the world is the world doesn't want to be saved. If someone walked into your house and started telling, helping?, you how to live and what you were doing wrong, I suspect you would tell them to get the hell out of your life. Most people are like that. If they are fat they don't want you telling them how to eat. If they use drugs they don't want you cutting off their supply. If they drive an SUV they don't want you telling them to drive a Honda instead.

Even if you get to a position of authority and try to shove electric cars down their throats like Obama did with GM, people simply won't buy them. So what then? Are you going to go USSR or ChiCom on them? People hated living under the USSR. Hated it. Many don't like living in China either. If you go draconian on people then you become more evil than whatever they were doing that you don't want them to do anymore.

[Zodd]

People just enjoy having little confrontation and not having others say you are a smartass, unkind person, and so they choose the path of letting others have their worth, even when they are detrimental too the general happiness of the world.

---------- Post added 05-13-2012 at 04:10 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My master plan is to stay away from people who want to tell me what to do or how to live. The problem with trying to save the world is the world doesn't want to be saved. If someone walked into your house and started telling, helping?, you how to live and what you were doing wrong, I suspect you would tell them to get the hell out of your life. Most people are like that. If they are fat they don't want you telling them how to eat. If they use drugs they don't want you cutting off their supply. If they drive an SUV they don't want you telling them to drive a Honda instead. Even if you get to a position of authority and try to shove electric cars down their throats like Obama did with GM, people simply won't buy them. So what then? Are you going to go USSR or ChiCom on them? People hated living under the USSR. Hated it. Many don't like living in China either. If you go draconian on people then you become more evil than whatever they were doing that you don't want them to do anymore.

Depends on who walks into the door, if it was some random person I would probably kick them out, however if they came trough the door and somehow said very much stuff I haven't thought about and I find there is some truth in it I might let them in. (Ok not let them in, but make an appointment with them, I guess). Smart people are always invited, Stasis, Rudy, Cannotseethe, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins etc. I might even do things I don't really fully totally believe in because I know they are so much smarter than me.

[MrDoom]

	Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I might even do things I don't really fully totally believe in because I know they are so much smarter than me.

Why is that a qualification for anyone to determine what's best for someone else?

[Autumnleaf]

Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Depends on who walks into the door, if it was some random person I would probably kick them out, however if they came trough the door and somehow said very much stuff I haven't thought about and I find there is some truth in it I might let them in. (Ok not let them in, but make an appointment with them, I guess). Smart people are always invited, Stasis, Rudy, Cannotseethe, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins etc. I might even do things I don't really fully totally believe in because I know they are so much smarter than me.

Smart people don't enforce rules. Cops and people like them do. They come and give you court summons for rule violations or they place you under arrest and take you away. You don't get to argue with President Obama about not getting your car registered in a timely manner.

[mieu]

no humans only dinosaurs