[BuShinJu]

Fun!

You need it, go out and get some. I needed it so I cast mind back to what I wanted to do when I was a kid. All of these ideas came back to me about what would be fun to do. That was about 4 years ago. The old thoughts still come back back they are nowhere near as strong or persistent, anyway I have to think about how to have more fun so they get pushed aside naturally. It still takes effort, but it is worth it.

Maybe watch some stand up comedy, having ironic thoughts about the world is fun.

Get a fun profile picture. You look at it everytime you post.

What is fun, how can I have more fun, where can I find fun, who can I have fun with, when can I have fun?

[Nightmare]

I'm not fun though.

[Dru]

thinking idly about what it would be like to commit suicide isn't the same as wanting to commit suicide.

---------- Post added 04-30-2012 at 12:58 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by nightmar149 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm not fun though.

this right here makes me want to ignore this thread completely. you come here clearly seeking an opinion and advice, but when you get it, you adopt a self-defeating attitude. why bother trying to help you when you don't seem so keen on the idea of helping yourself? nobody can fix you and nobody is going to save you. what are you looking for here?

your thoughts aren't ingrained. you persist in them.

---------- Post added 04-30-2012 at 01:01 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Frosted To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Consider dating. A SO will take this off your mind.

relating to the post-edit i just made, this is terrible advice. like, the worst ever.

[deconspire]

Have you tried writing these thoughts down in detail, and then burning what you wrote? That was something I did for some other shit and it seemed to help.

[Nightmare]

	this right here makes me want to ignore this thread completely. you come here clearly seeking an opinion and advice, but when you get it, you adopt a self-defeating attitude. why bother trying to help you when you don't seem so keen on the idea of helping yourself? nobody can fix you and nobody is going to save you. what are you looking for here?

Yeah, it's a problem.

[BuShinJu]

	Originally Posted by nightmar149 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yeah, it's a problem.

Haha, you sap, you're funny!

Now tell me a joke.

[DesertKnight]

Hurmmm....this is a pickle. I agree that you seem very self defeating in this purpose, that you don't really want any help or advice. That sort of irrationality likely won't get you very far here.

I will however add my thoughts on this matter, once. I can't actually offer much in the way of advice on how to deal with having these thoughts once you're already having them; what I can do is offer you my perspective on suicide. Personally suicide is never and will never be an option for me because I view it as sort of the penultimate act weakness. Now this is not to say that I believe people who think of suicide or ultimately who commit this act are weak; I believe specifically that they allow weakness to overcome them.

Suicide is permanent and irreversible (if you don't fail that is) and as such leaves you with no alternative option. Multiple solutions to a problem are something I value with high priority as well as my will power. I truly believe that there is no situation or circumstance that you cannot overcome by the power of your will. Logically I simply can't coexist with the idea of ending one's life when everything in life is so impermanent anyway. Life may be miserable one day and wonderful the next.

My life was completely miserable for two whole decades, objectively I probably could have killed myself and saved myself a great deal of pain and suffering. Then I wouldn't be as strong as I am today however, then I wouldn't exist at all. You have to make a conscious effort to want to live I suppose; and eventually you'll find the light at the end of the tunnel.

Though even if there was no light I would continue to push forward; regardless of whatever stands in my way I will not be stopped. That is another product of my will I guess and why I view suicide as weakness.

Sorry for rambling, I tend to do that on occasion. I'll leave my final thought on this with reluctance because it may be viewed as rather harsh and if it is I apologize. I think that people who commit suicide in general are making our species stronger by removing people who cannot stomach the harsh and often depressing reality of life (survival of the fittest).

[Nightmare]

	Sorry for rambling, I tend to do that on occasion. I'll leave my final thought on this with reluctance because it may be viewed as rather harsh and if it is I apologize. I think that people who commit suicide in general are making our species stronger by removing people who cannot stomach the harsh and often depressing reality of life (survival of the fittest).

It's really difficult to say something like that. This likely would have applied to humanity before the neocortex was as evolved as it is now... meaning it is now a psychological over biological or cohabitational impetus. Removing said 'higher thinking' from the world is not likely to improve the quality of the gene pool at all; in fact by my view is that it degrades the quality of it.

Think about it: if an organism has the capability to be aware of its own existence and consciously move to end it, that organism must have a great deal of self-awareness and knowledge- ultimately useful to the rest of the species. In fact, I could even go as far as saying that self-awareness is the key to species dominance, though of course my ramble is just all speculation nonetheless...

[DesertKnight]

I did say in general; as there are always exceptions. However, I still disagree with your assessment and I'll try to keep why concise.

I won't say your argument doesn't have validity because it does. However, any potential strength society gained from the cognitive ability to decide one's fate is lost when the individual decides to end their life since they can no longer contribute to society after that.

Hemmingway is a likely good example of this; a great contributor to society in his time lost to a moment of what I perceive as weakness and to postulate what he could have added to society had he not killed himself is a bit silly but still helpful in understanding this idea.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by DesertKnight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think that people who commit suicide in general are making our species stronger by removing people who cannot stomach the harsh and often depressing reality of life (survival of the fittest).

Silly, and simplistic. One great article by INTP Emily Deans:


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[Headswabby]

I've found the best way to stave off the effects of depression without the use of medication is healthy eating (stay away from fast food joints), regular exercise (even just a walk around the block for 10 minutes), and waking up in the early morning (I force myself awake at 8 am every morning, despite me being a complete night owl).

It also helps to have hobbies.

Background on me: Pretty much my entire family is on anti-depressants except me. I struggled with depression in high school and early college, and I had thoughts of how to commit suicide, but I couldn't rationalize actually doing it. I started compiling research from surveys of "happy" people, and came up with the above three things as commonalities. It had a near instantaneous effect on my mental health.

If you're serious about combating your depression without meds, you should give it a shot.

EDIT: Interesting article. Evolutionary biology and genetics in general has always fascinated me.

[DesertKnight]

	Silly, and simplistic. One great article by INTP Emily Deans: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hurmmm that article was quite informative and interesting. The idea that depression may actually also be linked to our ability to resist infection does raise an interesting point; though suicide isn't always a symptom of depression either and that is likely why I won't change my mind.

Thank you for the article, now I have to obsessively contemplate this information and decide if it changes my opinion or not. Also, simplistic yes (I oft have trouble seeing grey areas), silly....maybe but I'd like to think not since I was being serious.

[Fecal McAngry]

Originally Posted by DesertKnight To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hurmmm that article was quite informative and interesting. The idea that depression may actually also be linked to our ability to resist infection does raise an interesting point; though suicide isn't always a symptom of depression either and that is likely why I won't change my mind. Thank you for the article, now I have to obsessively contemplate this information and decide if it changes my opinion or not. Also, simplistic yes (I oft have trouble seeing grey areas), silly....maybe but I'd like to think not since I was being serious.

I realize that sounded a bit nasty, but depression, for some, is a biological process that causes massive physical pain and can resist efforts toward treatment...a tendency toward depression also appears to be linked to many useful traits, such as intelligence and creativity...

And depression is but one of many causes of suicide. Bud Dwyer, for example, killed himself to protect his family's financial future:

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This man was in extreme, unremitted physical suffering:

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And so on...

[DesertKnight]

Seems I must concede this point, cannot argue against it further. Though I still maintain a personal abhorrence to the concept of suicide I must by my logic admit that it is sometimes the only alternative and indeed sometimes necessary, and in a rare case a sign of strength (that hurt a lot).

However I would like to state that I don't feel like the OP's situation is one of those occurrences.

[slug]

Hi, nightmar, I'm glad you posted.

If you had OCD, you would also have a great deal of anxiety. However, your tone sounds more depressed to me. (I have experience with all three of the above.)

If you want some natural support, the suggestions the others gave for sunlight or a SAD light, vit. D., eating healthy, exercise, etc. are all good. I can also add fish oil, B vitamins, especially B12. However, some of this can cost money, which it sounds like you don't have.

This one is free. If you want to try changing your thought patterns, first you have to realize that you're in the "suicide thinking mode" a lot sooner that a couple hours in. The practice of meditation is actually good training for this.

Focus on the breath coming in and out of your nose. Invariably, your thoughts will wander off into thinking about something other than your breath. As soon as you realize this, bring back your focus to your breath. About 20 minutes in, you will start to feel relaxed and peaceful. This is your body's natural relaxation response. The advice i've heard is to practice this for 20 minutes twice a day.

Once you have awareness of your thoughts, you can choose to change them to something else. Thinking about what you're grateful for can be helpful.

You can always call a suicide hotline and talk to someone for free. You can call to just talk, vent or whatever like you're doing with us here. It's a little more personal than writing to people on a forum, and the human contact from a caring person should make you feel a bit better.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by nightmar149 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	3. I do not wish to change my neurochemistry with drugs

If you do not wish to take an Rx antidepressant, would you be willing take OTC stuff? If so, I'd be quite happy to help...

[seeyouatx]

If you really want it to change, you have to take the advice.

I'm not here to hand-hold, but I will give you my advice on the subject.

I've suffered with depression and suicidal attempts for many years. Nothing worse than waking up vomiting the morning after and realising you've failed and have to get up and deal with the world. But when you can pull yourself away and realise that there is something to fight for, it gets easier. I still slip into a depressed state quite often, but I don't try to kill myself now. Since you've not actually tried to kill yourself, it means you still have time to get help. There are people here and people around you in real life that can offer you good advice. You just have to be willing to take some of it. At this point you need to take responsibility for the fact that you resist taking advice and do something to change your situation. Find support from others, rally yourself, and do something you thought you would never do. You can wallow and wallow and wallow, but it won't change anything.

Just my opinion on it.
If I'd waited around for some miracle cure for my issues, I'd be long dead. It's not easy, it's not simple, but there comes a time you've to actually deal with it instead of talking about dealing with it.

[r Don]

	Originally Posted by nightmar149 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	3. I do not wish to change my neurochemistry with drugs

Sometimes, that's necessary for those with more entrenched problems. They need a level of mental equanimity for awhile that allows them the level headedness to heal themselves, then they discontinue the med.

An OTC approach is St. John's Wort (which I had good success with).

[yoginimama]

	Originally Posted by krisl To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You sound depressed and the intrusive thoughts may be a form of OCD.

^^ This. Repeated intrusive thoughts are a potential red flag for OCD. Your reaction of being scared by them and seeking to understand them looks kind of OCD as well.

Also, your unwillingness to seek help and consider medications looks to me like it's part of the package. I have severe OCD, and I had lots of reasons why I didn't get help or want meds.

Seriously, the forum is not the right place to turn in this kind of situation. You're having symptoms of something, but there's no way for any of us to know what it might be. I know you said you didn't want to hear this, but you need to get help. In fact, I suspect you have grounds to seek emergency help, what with the duration and persistence of your thoughts.

Look at it this way--you deserve better than this. You deserve better than spending hours a night thinking about suicide and then getting all freaked out about it the next day. As people have said already, there are community mental health centers. Please go describe your symptoms to a psychiatrist, or someone who can refer you to a psychiatrist.

[Nightmare]

Don't know why this thread was revived. I've been doing much better lately and haven't been having psychological issues. But I thank everyone for their support nonetheless.

[Dru]

i don't know why you started a thread titled "ingrained suicidal thoughts" if you're going to backtrack and less than a week later say you're fine.

[Nightmare]

	Originally Posted by Dru To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	i don't know why you started a thread titled "ingrained suicidal thoughts" if you're going to backtrack and less than a week later say you're fine.

Was stuck in a rut. More or less a 6 month rut. Seem to have managed to climb out of it at least temporarily. Don't worry about it.

[r Don]

	Originally Posted by nightmar149 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Was stuck in a rut. More or less a 6 month rut. Seem to have managed to climb out of it at least temporarily. Don't worry about it.

Sounds like 'talk therapy' (in the form of posting here), may have been helpful.

[Fecal McAngry]

	Originally Posted by nightmar149 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Don't know why this thread was revived. I've been doing much better lately and haven't been having psychological issues. But I thank everyone for their support nonetheless.

This is good.

Ask yourself, however, if the pattern over the past 5-10 years has been for you to feel predominantly depressed/unhappy, with periodic good patches during which you feel normal or semi-normal. If this is the case, now is an ideal time to take action in the form of therapy and an Rx antidepressant, or non-Rx OTC antidpressant(s).

“But I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure at all. How did I know that someday--at college, in Europe, somewhere, anywhere--the bell jar, with its stifling distortions, wouldn't descend again?”
― INFJ Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar ―

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is good. Ask yourself, however, if the pattern over the past 5-10 years has been for you to feel predominantly depressed/unhappy, with periodic good patches during which you feel normal or semi-normal. If this is the case, now is an ideal time to take action in the form of therapy and an Rx antidepressant, or non-Rx OTC antidpressant(s). “But I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure at all. How did I know that someday--at college, in Europe, somewhere, anywhere--the bell jar, with its stifling distortions, wouldn't descend again?” ― INFJ Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar ―

Indeed. My entire life has been filled with random breakthroughs of satisfaction; this is no exception. I shall look into St. Johns Wort and among other things.