[JustMel]

I have mixed feelings about
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. My kids aren't affected because we're not in the same school districts that are implementing this should it pass the House. If we were we'd probably not have an issue with it since we do all of the things it's for anyway. Our kids are at school on time, they get good grades, we're at every event and every requested conference and request them ourselves if needed. We are in constant contact with teachers and on a first name basis with all their principals. However, I realize we're not the norm, at least according to the principals and teachers we know.

On one side I see the need to get parents that aren't involved more involved in their children's education. Every year at parent teacher conferences one of the complaints from teachers is that the kids that aren't doing well are the ones whose parents aren't showing up for conferences or anything else school related. That underscores the whole point of the "report card". To get parents involved that otherwise wouldn't be but I think the strain it will inevitably put on law enforcement and jails is reason enough to not pass it. They can't even keep up with the parents who have their kids in the wrong school districts.

On the other side, parents are the ones raising the children and have the right, if they choose, to be uninvolved.

[Warrior]

I have mixed feelings about these things as well. If this is wildly successful, how will the teachers manage it? We're very involved with our kids school. We visit the class, meet with the principle and teachers, exchange emails several times a week with teachers, etc. I guess we are too involved because we have trouble getting timely responses to email and my wife has apparently been at the school so much lately that she was asked to leave yesterday. If most parents get that involved, how is that going to be handled if the school can't deal a smaller number of active parents now?

On the other hand, I do think parents being involved is an important part of education. Encouraging that is great, but it isn't really a secret. I'm not sure this is going to do anything for parents that don't want to be involved now (for whatever reason).

[Polymath20]

Finally the state taking a stance and creating a method to call out inept parents? Finally!

1) I don't like it because it's big, totalitarian government.
2) Grading bad parents will do nothing but aggravate them. They'll still be bad parents.
3) There will probably be unintended consequences and ramifications.

[Arcanist]

So not only are people forced to support a terrible and mind-raping public school system through taxation, they'll be graded if they don't adhere to some arbitrary standard? Oh, the hubris of these people. It'll eventually be their undoing.

[EdR]

This thread is the first time that I have encountered the concept of a Parents Report Card.
That inspired a quick goggle search and I came across a report about a legislative proposal in Florida for such a card.

My immediate gut reaction agrees with Polymath, but I'm going to do some more research.

My opinion on academic success in El-Hi is that it is the resultant of multiple influences: student, teachers, parents, economic situation, motivation, environment and I don't know how many other factors. Another component of my thoughts is that back in my day (50's and 60's), it was pretty much sink or swim with the only major external force being the threat of parental reprisal for substandard results. I also strongly hold the position that the average HS graduate back then was much more capable in Reading, Riting and Rithmatic than most of today's HS graduates.

[Undead Bonzi]

People who are bad parents are not going to care if they get a bad report card. They are bad parents because they don't care.

[Fujimoto]

	Originally Posted by EdR To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	...back in my day (50's and 60's), it was pretty much sink or swim with the only major external force being the threat of parental reprisal for substandard results. I also strongly hold the position that the average HS graduate back then was much more capable in Reading, Riting and Rithmatic than most of today's HS graduates.

I'm willing to bet that was because parents actually cared about how well their kids did, AND the kids knew there would be consequences for poor work.

Today's parents expect that teachers will do all the work for them, when in fact teachers have very little authority.

[Eridal]

This is just one of those "great" in concept but terrible in practice ideas.

The thought of grading parents and either shaming them into or penalizing them enough into being a good parent is simply not going to work on the worst offenders and will likely only marginally affect the rest. All this will do is further the fight between parents and teachers, which is already bad enough in most schools, and will place an even larger burden on teachers and administrators which are in recent years doing more with even less personnel already.

And that's not even getting into the moral aspects of this debate which involve how much should the government be involved in citizens personal lives, and what is best for children, and who gets to decide that the state or the parents?

[PRBori]

unrealistic. As a parent, I do the best I can to stay ahead with my little ones schools, but granted, my work is almost 1.5 hrs away from home back and forth and is very demanding so I do depend on the after-care program to ensure that she does her homework before I get home. If the aftercare fails to help her with the homework, I get mad, if I'm paying hundreds of dollars a week for someone to care for her until I'm able to get home, I expect them to at the minimum help her with the homework (not projects, I enjoy the projects at home). When I get home is a bit late, have to start dinner so we can eat around 8pm, 9pm the latest. My little one is to come home and read at least one book of her teachers online site. Does that count? Doesn't seem like it as I doubt the teacher takes the time to see that my little one is actually completing 1 book per night. All in all I barely spend time with my little one because of my schedule, except on the weekends, although the past few weekends I had to work.
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As for school activities, I get involved when I can, but that's not feasible all the time. This is a lot harder for single parents to do because there is only one income in place, so I can see this impacting single parents the hardest and I do not agree with it. Single parents already have a lot on their plate to add more into it. Hell, if this was implemented around the country I might seriously consider moving on to another country.

In any event, I don't think is a good idea. I believe that parents have a number of issue to deal with already to have to put up with more. Where I am a parent can get fined and put in jail if the child is absent and/or tardy for more than specific time. I don't agree with it either, but that's the law. I do wonder however how that would differ from home-schooling your own child. Not that I plan to, but I am curious.
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[Autumnleaf]

I guess this way teachers don't have to be held accountable for their failure to do their job.

[PRBori]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess this way teachers don't have to be held accountable for their failure to do their job.

funny you mention that, I got a letter from the school telling me that my little ones teacher didn't meet the "Child Left Behind" regulations as she didn't meet the certification. In any event, I don't have any issues with the teacher, but is was quite interesting to receive the letter after I have lended a number of items for second grade kids to use, which she didn't use at all as I kept asking my little one if they used them, so I ended up getting them all back.

[WeAreAllKosh]

I saw the thread title and immediately thought of
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[Subgenius]

Well, Devil's advocate here. Memphis is a complete shithole for education. If you're in a city school there, you're pretty fucked. This actually might be helpful.

[Autumnleaf]

Originally Posted by PRBori To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

funny you mention that, I got a letter from the school telling me that my little ones teacher didn't meet the "Child Left Behind" regulations as she didn't meet the certification. In any event, I don't have any issues with the teacher, but is was quite interesting to receive the letter after I have lended a number of items for second grade kids to use, which she didn't use at all as I kept asking my little one if they used them, so I ended up getting them all back.

That is just it. Teachers do everything within their power to avoid being graded on their performance. The no child left behind policy grades them on their students performance on standardized tests, they hate it. And they want to give me a report card. I hope they try. All they need is to motivate me or guys like me and I won't stop until they are graded and face repercussions for deficiencies in their performance.

[Eridal]

	Originally Posted by Subgenius To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, Devil's advocate here. Memphis is a complete shithole for education. If you're in a city school there, you're pretty fucked. This actually might be helpful.

The question then becomes will this be effective? Are there better ways which achieve similar results without adding even more of a burden on teachers and administrators? And what are the unintended consequences which will result from a law such as this one?

[Subgenius]

Eh, who knows. It's black schools in the most segregated town in the US. There are a ton of factors contributing to the problems there that really have nothing to do with parents or kids. It's sad.

[phoboser]

"not enforceable", "waste of time"... she's just another grandstanding politician who capitalizes on society's denial of race differences in intelligence.

Sure, it would be nice if poor, minority single mothers took an interest in their children's education--or better yet, that their baby daddies did--but a bill that forces encourages? gold-stars? these women to keep their children in school doesn't address the fact that they don't care. It would just make school more miserable for those children who like education. Let them drop out.

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by phoboser To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Let them drop out.

Ah yes, and just cement Memphis at the number 1 position of most murders in the country by the huge influx of street kids joining gangs because there really isn't much else to do in innercity memphis than become another cog in the American drug/illegal weapon trade's transportation hub. GG. At least you'll be able to bitch about blacks more when that happens.

[ummon]

I wish parents would get more involved in their kid's education. But this bill is ridiculous.

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by ummon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wish parents would get more involved in their kid's education. But this bill is ridiculous.

Why? They're forced to pay for an overpriced service. Placing your child in a public school means you've given up any sort of responsibility. The state has them now, and they will be thoroughly indoctrinated. That's all they need, right? I can't believe people consent to this crap.

[Mogura]

Funny. The very parents that need report cards to otherwise encourage them to fulfill their parental duties really shouldn't be having children in the first place.

"I wanted to because babies are cute..."

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Funny. The very parents that need report cards to otherwise encourage them to fulfill their parental duties really shouldn't be having children in the first place. "I wanted to because babies are cute..."

Yeah, they shouldn't. But when you subsidize breeders, what do you expect?

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why? They're forced to pay for an overpriced service. Placing your child in a public school means you've given up any sort of responsibility. The state has them now, and they will be thoroughly indoctrinated. That's all they need, right? I can't believe people consent to this crap.

Actually, there is a vast difference between the public school systems withing Shelby County(Memphis and some surrounding areas), and since TN doesn't have an income tax and quite a bit lower state taxes on just everything in comparison to other regions of the country, no one is really being forced to pay for much. And with some of the corruption that TN is famous for, it's arguable how much cash actually gets to any of the schools it's intended for. This causes the schools to have problems actually getting federal money because schools don't spend enough to gain access to federal funds.

County schools are caucasian in majority and probably comparable to a lot of northern private schools(if my experience in MN and IL is any indication). The city schools, overwhelmingly black, on the other hand are a mess. I believe there are still schools with asbestos in them there. They don't ever start on time in the summer because a lot of city schools don't have functioning air conditioning. Test scores have been shit there since way before No child left behind and it's precursors. It's pretty sad. Not much has changed in the city since the civil rights movement even started. Memphis(and TN) politics are super corrupt and only keep these schools in the crapper. Memphis's reputation as national and international shipping hub also carries over to illicit materials too, so unfortunately violence in Memphis is rather high due to conflicting interests.

And it's hard to say what effect the growing latino population is having on the schools because the studies really haven't had loads of time for definitive answers, due to the latino influx really only taking place in a little over 12-13 years. From the 80-90s censuses, TN actually had negative latino population growth from 35kish(i think) to 33-32k, but around 1998-2000 the population over 100k legal(with who knows how many illegal), and it's been rising ever since.

You name some sappy educational fad that's been used in the last 40 years, and it's tried and died in Memphis. I don't see how this could hurt.

[True Rune]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why? They're forced to pay for an overpriced service. Placing your child in a public school means you've given up any sort of responsibility. The state has them now, and they will be thoroughly indoctrinated. That's all they need, right? I can't believe people consent to this crap.

I think that's the least of these parent's worries, especially the bad ones.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yeah, they shouldn't. But when you subsidize breeders, what do you expect?

Californication?