How do you identify?

**Alai** · 08-21-2008, 10:59 AM

I'm at a weird point.

I used to identify with my childhood heroes (and going through all those should be a separate post) but somehow I can't do it anymore. Quotes are still useful, someone called them Talisman Poems once, as guidelines. It might have been the existentialist philosophy I took. Words and concepts like Justice and Morality are just.. non absolute, unTruthful, relativistic anthropomorphisms these days. Kipling said words are the strongest drug mankind has, after all.

I've used the nickname Alai (Ender's Game) for over a decade now, nothing else seems to.. fit.

Anyone else running into similar problems?

**enWTFp** · 08-21-2008, 02:27 PM

Dude, you sound like an INTP, or your forehead has been seriously injured by an angry existential philosopher. Nasty buggers are those..

As a more important side note, my childhood hero was Heracles and (for some reason) I wanted to go and kick Achilles pretty hard.

Hope that helps!

**Mozzes** · 08-21-2008, 02:29 PM

I consider slaying my heroes to be a part of becoming the best person I can.

**LionsPride** · 08-21-2008, 04:43 PM

It sounds like you are undergoing change without any hints as to who you are changing into. I find it's like a metamorphosis where one day you find you are building a cocoon and all the things that once mattered are no longer important. Eventually you re-emerge as something new and it's "oh, okay...this is what I was becoming".

I found during the times I went through a metamorphosis, that when it was all over some things returned and some things did not, but during the process even the most beloved childhood things were questioned. I find it helps if you don't fight it and you take the time to discover the deeper things in your life, the things that define you as a being, things that can not be seen or expressed to others. During those times I discovered so much about myself. Nights were opportunities for epiphanies and realizations that shaped much of my future.

**acyckowski** · 08-21-2008, 08:16 PM

It's a maturation of your thinking....you're moving past the concrete examples of the ideal (heroes) and gravitating towards abstract descriptions of the ideal (philosophy). There's nothing wrong with it, although I daresay most people never get to where you are...hence the public's fascination with celebrity. Regardless, embrace the change, your thinking is evolving. In a little while, it will be worthwhile to reflect on why you identified with the heroes you chose before.

A word of caution, though, some folks get stuck in the transition you're in and maintain their fascination with other people's thoughts and words. This seems to be where the INTP's get hung up, as implied by enWTFp. There is a next level, where you synthesize the various abstractions and assess them against their utility, and implement them in concrete action. One of the hallmarks of the INTJ, after all, is that all ideas--no matter how crazy--are given consideration until determined useful or useless.

Justice and Morality are good examples: yes, they are inherently subjective and non-absolute, but would there be such an overwhelming consensus about what they represent if they were truly meaningless?

A classic (almost trite) example of relativism is: When does a pile of sticks become a chair? If you're stuck in transition, you'll latch onto the question and say that there is no difference, therefore both concepts are meaningless. Once you get past the transition, though, you realize that there are multiple ways of measuring for a difference (common understanding, intended use of the object in question) and that although the boundaries may be fuzzy, it is necessary to draw a distinction as an expedient to effective communication.

08-21-2008, 10:59 AM	#1
Alai New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2	I'm at a weird point. I used to identify with my childhood heroes (and going through all those should be a separate post) but somehow I can't do it anymore. Quotes are still useful, someone called them Talisman Poems once, as guidelines. It might have been the existentialist philosophy I took. Words and concepts like Justice and Morality are just.. non absolute, unTruthful, relativistic anthropomorphisms these days. Kipling said words are the strongest drug mankind has, after all. I've used the nickname Alai (Ender's Game) for over a decade now, nothing else seems to.. fit. Anyone else running into similar problems?
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08-21-2008, 02:27 PM	#2
enWTFp Member [16%] MBTI: eNfp Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 679	Dude, you sound like an INTP, or your forehead has been seriously injured by an angry existential philosopher. Nasty buggers are those.. As a more important side note, my childhood hero was Heracles and (for some reason) I wanted to go and kick Achilles pretty hard. Hope that helps!
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08-21-2008, 02:29 PM	#3
Mozzes Veteran Member [50%] MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,008	I consider slaying my heroes to be a part of becoming the best person I can.
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08-21-2008, 04:43 PM	#4
LionsPride Core Member [225%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,029	It sounds like you are undergoing change without any hints as to who you are changing into. I find it's like a metamorphosis where one day you find you are building a cocoon and all the things that once mattered are no longer important. Eventually you re-emerge as something new and it's "oh, okay...this is what I was becoming". I found during the times I went through a metamorphosis, that when it was all over some things returned and some things did not, but during the process even the most beloved childhood things were questioned. I find it helps if you don't fight it and you take the time to discover the deeper things in your life, the things that define you as a being, things that can not be seen or expressed to others. During those times I discovered so much about myself. Nights were opportunities for epiphanies and realizations that shaped much of my future.
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08-21-2008, 08:16 PM	#5
acyckowski Member [37%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,481	It's a maturation of your thinking....you're moving past the concrete examples of the ideal (heroes) and gravitating towards abstract descriptions of the ideal (philosophy). There's nothing wrong with it, although I daresay most people never get to where you are...hence the public's fascination with celebrity. Regardless, embrace the change, your thinking is evolving. In a little while, it will be worthwhile to reflect on why you identified with the heroes you chose before. A word of caution, though, some folks get stuck in the transition you're in and maintain their fascination with other people's thoughts and words. This seems to be where the INTP's get hung up, as implied by enWTFp. There is a next level, where you synthesize the various abstractions and assess them against their utility, and implement them in concrete action. One of the hallmarks of the INTJ, after all, is that all ideas--no matter how crazy--are given consideration until determined useful or useless. Justice and Morality are good examples: yes, they are inherently subjective and non-absolute, but would there be such an overwhelming consensus about what they represent if they were truly meaningless? A classic (almost trite) example of relativism is: When does a pile of sticks become a chair? If you're stuck in transition, you'll latch onto the question and say that there is no difference, therefore both concepts are meaningless. Once you get past the transition, though, you realize that there are multiple ways of measuring for a difference (common understanding, intended use of the object in question) and that although the boundaries may be fuzzy, it is necessary to draw a distinction as an expedient to effective communication.
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