[AlfredSchnittke]

I previously included a deluded option meaning the person had not recognized the contradiction inherent in their views/actions. But since that was discarded only the other two options where left.

You could have sex with attractive men, you can't have physical closeness + distance. Physical closeness implies some deep, passionate relation. The world simply doesn't function in this way.

[Zodd]

Physical closeness. Try reading that again.

[castalia]

Someone mentioned me as going through this situation. Yes, OP, it is not uncommon in today's world for high achieving female INTJs to want sex without deep attachments.

My reasoning is that relationships take lots of energy which might be more beneficial when invested elsewhere (yourself, your work, hobbies, etc.) Relationships tend to be unstable because people are unstable. In other words, they are not constant and you never know what you're going to get.

I also feel that love is a very selfish emotion, but that's for another discussion. I do eventually want to be in a relationship, but with someone who has a similar sex drive and who will allow me the room to live a life together but also a life apart.

[KeithP]

Eh, a lot of guys say they like the idea of NSA sex. It's difficult pull off, though. A lot of it is keeping a good report with the other person, but also letting them know they shouldn't be contacting you/texting you all the time for piddly random bullshit. The idea is to find an acquaintance that will be exclusive with you b/c they are also busy as hell. You can both find a night once a week to get together and get your fucks out.

If you find someone that is all emotional, they'll want to see you more than that.

[Undead Bonzi]

	Originally Posted by Zodd To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Physical closeness. Try reading that again.

Yeah, but the OP has stated a reluctance to sleep with strangers and would instead prefer long term friends. You can have a 'distant' physical closeness with a friend but it really takes a very rare combination of personalities to work without exploding. In essence the OP needs a male version of herself, this person is not the male she mentions in the OP. That male already has feelings and if she fucks around with those while knowing she does not reciprocate anything beyond the physical it is dishonest (I'd add some harsher names for that but I think the tension is already high enough). You don't need to trash a friendship just to get the closet wallpapered.

In general I've got nothing against FWB. I personally sucked at it. My first FWB (mutual decision that it was all either of us wanted) turned into my current SO of two years and I feel no regrets about it. However there are things in the OP's stance that strike me as real obstacles in achieving a FWB type un-relationship.

#1. OP is a virgin. Not a bad thing in and of itself, but a lack of sexual experience calls into question just how much the OP understands what she wants.

#2. The OP is swearing off love from a bad previous relationship. I've always had issues with people who make relationship decisions from an experience sample size of one. Rage-quitting after the first failure is not a good indication of the maturity it takes to balance an FWB interaction.

#3. The OP's 'love' is an unobtainable person of vague acquaintance who she seems to enjoy pining for without ever attaining. I don't see that as 'love' no matter how much you stretch the definition and it seems fairly unhealthy, but that is entirely my personal bias. I can't put a finger on why it bothers me but it sets off warning bells in my head.

#4. The fear that 'love', without really knowing what it is or having experienced it, will change her and ruin her dreams. On this one...well, I've simply never understood fearing change or how it might affect my dreams or ambitions. If today I find something that is more important than yesterdays dream then so what? Yesterdays dream is not a sacred cow to never be touched once it is born. 'Dreams' and 'desires' are what we want, what we want is not a static thing. It changes with experience and I don't understand why that is to be feared.

The OPS's stance also ignores the fact that a relationship is not an automatic failure of previous dreams. I had dreams before I had a relationship, now with a relationship I am closer to attaining those dreams than I was before.



All of this bundled together makes me feel like the OP is a long way from being able to find and maintain a FWB relationship. She is going to need more experience with friendships and relationships of all kinds before this becomes likely.

[Zodd]

You really don't know her and all persons are different. 1 Ok, she is a virgin, it might not work out because of that (though, I think it will), but why can't she try? 2 Her not wanting too have a real relationship has nothing to do with her wanting FWB. 3 I do that too, how does she not love him, you can't make someone dislike spaghetti if she loves spaghetti. If she is happy fantasizing about it why shouldn't she? Might be a bit fucked up, but who cares. 4 Yeah, that's sad, but it is her choice, maybe she doesn't care that much about it. I do advise her too really think about it good and point that not all men are the same as her first boyfriend who she didn't have sex with.

I can't believe I haven't asked this yet, but TS, do you live in Holland?
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[Naiha]

Zodd, once again, thank you.
And if TS abbreviation refers to me, no, I don't live in Holland. I live in the jerk of a country that is the U.S...

Undead: I have a bit of "sexual" experience that does not involve intercourse, but you are right, since I have not yet gone that far I guess I can't be sure what I really want. But, I would like to try it out and see. And, I have plenty of patience as I have tons of other things on my mind right now.
However, it is not fair to assume I am swearing off love out of rage. It was a calculated decision based on quite a bit of relationship experience and my lifestyle choices and out of sympathy for whoever would be in a relationship with me: I am much too distant and independent, there are not many men who can handle a real relationship with someone who is independent to as much extreme as I am.
I have deleted all my comments about this "love" I have because I have found so many to be extremely judgmental about it although it is completely innocent (by my amoral standards).
Do you have a right to tell me I have not experienced love? I have, in past relations. Sex does not equal love. I have been in love with someone who was in love with me. Please don't make any more erroneous assumptions.
Fear of change: It is precisely my adaption to change and love of change that is part of what has me wary of relationships. I find others to be too rigid and resistant to change. It would not bode well for them to date me seriously... fear? you keep talking about fear. Another erroneous assumption about me....
And I have had my fair share of experience. Just because I am a virgin does not mean I have no experience with friends and relationships. Who told you that?

---------- Post added 04-17-2012 at 09:20 AM ----------

hahahahaha nice spaghetti analogy... :D

[Zodd]

Yeah, I used the spaghetti analogy too defend myself a week ago. I've only heard about one person who disliked spaghetti, apparently he did like macaroni....and the person that told me that also knew he had a friend who didn't like macaroni but liked spaghetti. WTFZORZ?!?! Spaghetti and macaroni FTW!!!

[IcNjThJ]

Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I recently hurt a good guy friend of mine by leading him on then dumping him. I feel terrible, but I had to do it because he fell in love with me and I realized that I didn't feel the same for him. But I regret it, too, because he can't stay friends with me and he said so. I am interested in him as a person, and I really want to make love with him, but I still had to let go of him. He is so emotional and he seemed to be getting to attached, and I was afraid I would hurt him worse if I got more involved.

Well, aren't you so sweet for stringing him along...

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I realized all I really want from a relationship is something physical, I guess to put it bluntly I feel like I just want sex.

Get ready for a life full of pump-and-dumps.

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am so busy all the time pursuing my career and interests.

How about improving your looks?

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But, I am a healthy young female who has needs.

We already know what you need...

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And I don't know what to do about this. It is so hard to find a man that doesn't just disgust me

I'd love to know what man doesn't disgust your fine tastes. Actually, I really don't care.

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	and the fact that I know this guy and I really want to sleep with him is tortuous. But at the same time I care about him too much and don't want to hurt him. And, he is so emotional and there seems to be so much complicated baggage.

Ok, so this guy is a weenie and you're not attracted to him. If you don't want to hurt him, let him go and let him move on if you really don't want to hurt him.

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, I'm thinking I need to meet more people and hopefully find an interesting, attractive man who just wants a casual, distant love affair like I do. Are there men out there who are like this?

There are plenty of men who would love to be with you just for sex.

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How do I go about meeting guys when I am so introverted and anti-social?

Do you REALLY need help with this one? You say you're anti-social but, you were social enough to meet the last guy you messed around with...

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I feel like people avoid me because I'm so introverted. I mean, I am an attractive, healthy person

If you were attractive men wouldn't avoid you...

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	and I am highly intelligent

Men don't care

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	and can keep a great conversation.

I thought you were anti-social?

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's just, people don't seem to notice me because I am so withdrawn.

Then do something to rope some more guys in, at least those that don't apparently disgust you.

	Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess I'm just pouring out all my "feelings" into one big essay which the whole point of is I really want this kind of casual relationship but I don't know how to go about doing it...

The degradation of humanity continues on.

[nath]

Uff
sorry just saying I hate this kind of person who just look for sex, you look like a man talking like this.

[thod]

Where is this place full of pretty young women who can't find men to shag them? I want to move house. What the heck is wrong with the men there? Some sort of chemical in the water? It's got to be cheaper than paying hookers.

[IcNjThJ]

	Originally Posted by nath To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Uff sorry just saying I hate this kind of person who just look for sex, you look like a man talking like this.

For real...but if a man said something like his he would be chastised off the forum practically.

[INTJRyan]

	Originally Posted by IcNjThJ To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For real...but if a man said something like his he would be chastised off the forum practically.

Windy up there on that cross?

[MechanicalSun]

A relationship is what you decide it to be or both in best case scenario. It might appear that you have an emotional attachment to the guy in question, but unsure if your emotional involvement is strong enough compared to what you assume it's his.
I would recommend you to talk to the guy openly and tell him what you are looking for, he might agree and be happy with it to you surprise ...
Good luck!

[nath]

I think it is normal for a man saying such a crap like this, because most man ARE crappy.
hahaha
Women are more evolved and don't need this "low" such thing.

Sex without relathinship? I just hope you get better, your soul is so poor. (like most men's soul).


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[thod]

Nah, it's the men around there. Small testicles. Probably into feminism and low impact workouts too. Naked women turn them off. Heck, they should import some real men, like me. I would soon sort those lonely women out. I reckon I could handle a couple a day. They would worship my cock after the poor specimens of manhood they are used to. Doing my duty, giving the women orgasms and shooting sperm. Are these American men? I had no idea it had gotten that bad over there.

[MyotisLucifugus]

	Originally Posted by nath To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think it is normal for a man saying such a crap like this, because most man ARE crappy. hahaha

I doubt my father, brother, grandfathers, uncles, colleagues and half of my friends would appreciate this unwarranted attack at all. That statement is absolute horseshit.

	Women are more evolved and don't need this "low" such thing.

… and I personally don't appreciate this assumption myself at all. If you're male, stop putting women on pedestals; if you're female, climb back down your damn self.

	Sex without relathinship? I just hope you get better, your soul is so poor. (like most men's soul). To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe we can take some of the more annoying women-haters and put you in a cage match with them. A little Thunderdome around here would probably be a good thing.

[nath]

I was just kidding
I know most man are not like this and thats a stereotype
hahhah

---------- Post added 04-17-2012 at 08:19 AM ----------

anyway, it is more common to find a man like this than a woman, and a girl like this can be even more disgusting than a man like this. But again: you have a poor soul if you are this way.

[Zodd]

Probably just a ginger who thinks having no soul is better than having a poor soul.

[changos]

I was thinking... yes what you want is possible, absolutely.

The problem I think is, lovers of your age will be hard to find worth spending time with, and drama-free. Very often around that age, the best lovers (options) around will be older (both for women and men) because also, "often" will offer more stability, more solid promises or conduct. My bet is, regarding your age or experience, you will get bored of someone 19-21 years old. Just be careful, build trust before betting yourself on it.


On the other hand I agree with many comments here but the morals are not being discussed (or asked for that matter). I insist that I agree to certain point, from there I can only say "I WOULD agree" but no... I don't.


Most scenarios are about someone telling us how responsible he-she is, how much love he-she feels and the attempt of a serious relationship. At the end it becomes a destructive thing: everything focused on power, sex, money, control and manipulation: "do what I want, hate my enemies and love my friends, give up your life". That sucks, and we all have seen it but most agree and relate to that kind of threads (I mean, you are not as aggressive there).

BUT now we have a scenario of someone who says clearly what she wants, no drama or evil intentions, just the plain truth, she even says regreting what happened... and suddenly most people wants to trow rocks at her?? give me a break. That's why relationships suck, because most allow and praise bad behaviour.



I've received PMs in the past regarding the inmense negativity found here, the sad thing is many see and talk about this but not openly. Then what? the inner side of the forum is one and the public one is very different.

[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by Naiha To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I recently hurt a good guy friend of mine by leading him on then dumping him. I feel terrible, but I had to do it because he fell in love with me and I realized that I didn't feel the same for him. But I regret it, too, because he can't stay friends with me and he said so. I am interested in him as a person, and I really want to make love with him, but I still had to let go of him. He is so emotional and he seemed to be getting to attached, and I was afraid I would hurt him worse if I got more involved. I realized all I really want from a relationship is something physical, I guess to put it bluntly I feel like I just want sex. I am so busy all the time pursuing my career and interests. But, I am a healthy young female who has needs. And I don't know what to do about this. It is so hard to find a man that doesn't just disgust me, and the fact that I know this guy and I really want to sleep with him is tortuous. But at the same time I care about him too much and don't want to hurt him. And, he is so emotional and there seems to be so much complicated baggage. So, I'm thinking I need to meet more people and hopefully find an interesting, attractive man who just wants a casual, distant love affair like I do. Are there men out there who are like this? How do I go about meeting guys when I am so introverted and anti-social? I feel like people avoid me because I'm so introverted. I mean, I am an attractive, healthy person and I am highly intelligent and can keep a great conversation. It's just, people don't seem to notice me because I am so withdrawn. I guess I'm just pouring out all my "feelings" into one big essay which the whole point of is I really want this kind of casual relationship but I don't know how to go about doing it...

So, you want what you need, but you don't want to give this person whom you cared for what he needs.

I never understood the desire just to use someone else for sex.

[Zodd]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, you want what you need, but you don't want to give this person whom you cared for what he needs. I never understood the desire just to use someone else for sex.

That's why she ended it. Geez, you never made a mistake?

[Latro]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Frankly, N, males that age aren't worth fucking. Experience counts.

Someone had to put up with you as a newbie too, no?

[Naiha]

I've never used anyone for sex. I just want mutual expression of sexuality between two mature adults without said destruction and lies referred to by chango (I can definitely relate to this like many others).
Zodd, are there lots of other cool and open-minded people in Holland?
It may be just me or my specific location, but the U.S. seems to be a festering cesspool of judgement and narrow-mindedness... the grass is always greener somewhere else...

---------- Post added 04-17-2012 at 12:39 PM ----------

hehe... south park,....

[The Frozen One]

Honestly, there are probably a lot of people looking for that type of relationship. There are websites dedicated to this kind of relationship where you can have sex with no strings attached.

The part you must be wary of is sorting out the decent guys from the creeps. Good luck to you in your search.