[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're responding to a comment about thoughts. zibber appeared to wonder what would posses someone to actually post sentiments like these. AlfredSchnittke replied by supposing that the OP was seeking to discuss something that he thinks. You then responded to Schnittke in the form of a rebuttal, as if the OP's wrongdoing isn't excused by anonymity. What wrongdoing?

I was responding to the passive-aggressive "an online community perceived to be less outrightly judgmental". I can see being snarky about those who sermonize on pre-marital sex or non-consensual cheating, but rape is not in the same category.

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One imagines that it is because they wanted to share their inner thoughts, and were looking to do so within the confines of an online community perceived to be less outrightly judgmental than the rest of the world.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anonymity doesn't make certain acts less wrong.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was responding to the passive-aggressive "an online community perceived to be less outrightly judgmental".

Which was itself a response to an incredulous objection to "say[ing] shit like this". It sounds like you're taking this comment out of context in order to rail against it, which would confirm rather than defeat the complaint:

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why on Earth would someone say shit like this?

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One imagines that it is because they wanted to share their inner thoughts, and were looking to do so within the confines of an online community perceived to be less outrightly judgmental than the rest of the world.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anonymity doesn't make certain acts less wrong.

[AlfredSchnittke]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	<mumbles something about anonymity and right/wrong>

And who are you to decide what is right and wrong? Are you God?

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And who are you to decide what is right and wrong?

Anyone who reasons has that capacity.

[nowt]

How close have you gotten to raping anyone?

Originally Posted by owly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm a 22 year old guy that is ignored by women. However, I'm not crazy about women. I don't chase them, or beg them to notice and accept me, or have sex with me, etc (I also don't think they should be forced to do any of these things). I don't place vaginas on a pedestal. Lately, I've been thinking that rapists do a good job - a job that needs to be done. Especially if they rape some vapid dumb bitch who thinks the world revolves around her. Even if rape is supposed to be an act of control and power (imo, mostly bullshit - here's an idea: the guys wanted to insert their penis in a vagina). Any other rejected males empathize, even a little, with rapists?

[AlfredSchnittke]

	Originally Posted by gypsy stardust To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He came to a community, largely comprised of INTJs because he thought he would find people who wouldn't judge him? Yeahok. The mysogyny I have witnessed from some of the butthurt rejected males in this place is litterally blood chilling.

This irrationally ignores the fact that INTJ's tend to be oddball characters that dismiss socially constructed ethical systems in favor of their own views, which are often quite "extreme" and "immoral" by the other types.

Being such a character himself, this particular INTJ probably hoped that other INTJ's might have similar thoughts sometimes, and be able to actually talk about them.

The amount of blind misandry, and adherence to various dogma's in this plus is as equally chilling as any misogyny in this place in my view.

---------- Post added 04-11-2012 at 09:15 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anyone who reasons has that capacity.

Sure, but so plotthickens says "you're wrong for thinking that!" Well, it's instantly defeated by the other person saying, "No, it's not!" because both are reasoners.

It's barely worth saying such things.

[AnotherAvatar]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	While you may be morally opposed to both, eating meat is not the same as rape.

Care to back that up that statement?

A guy walks up to a girl, drags her into the woods and rapes her.
A guy walks up to a cow, slits its throat, cuts it up, throws it on the Bar B Que.

Objectively observed, someone might say that all things being equal the reasoning is the same, the guy wanted what he wanted, and certainly the cow got the worse end of the deal, not the girl. Tactically/strategically is was simply an assessment on the guys part if he could pull it off.

[nowt]

Let's compare like things, shall we?

	Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Care to back that up that statement?

A guy walks up to a girl, drags her into the woods and rapes her.
A guy walks up to a cow, drags it into the woods and rapes it.

A guy walks up to a girl, slits her throat, cuts her up, throws her on the BBQ.
A guy walks up to a cow, slits its throat, cuts it up, throws it on the BBQ.

[True Rune]

Why do people believe they are entitled to sex? I hope you don't actually want to rape someone, and are just chock full of butthurt due to rejection, but really.. nobody owes you ANYTHING.

[stasis]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sure, but so plotthickens says "you're wrong for thinking that!" Well, it's instantly defeated by the other person saying, "No, it's not!" because both are reasoners. It's barely worth saying such things.

It sounds like you're saying 'right' and 'wrong' have no meaning without authority. I can agree with that if we're talking about moral right and moral wrong; moral expression is a kind of authoritarian memetics. The aesthetics of virtue and vice. Ethical right and ethical wrong, to contrast, can be defined by social function, which is something identifiable by observation and reason. So it seems like we act unethically at our own peril - not on pain of punishment, but by risk of social dysfunction and physical self-destruction.

[AlfredSchnittke]

Originally Posted by stasis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It sounds like you're saying 'right' and 'wrong' have no meaning without authority. I can agree with that if we're talking about moral right and moral wrong; moral expression is a kind of authoritarian memetics. The aesthetics of virtue and vice. Ethical right and ethical wrong, to contrast, can be defined by social function, which is something identifiable by observation and reason. So it seems like we act unethically at our own peril - not on pain of punishment, but by risk of social dysfunction and physical self-destruction.

I was assuming a moral sense, not an ethical one.

However, I will say this, given your example of the ethical (which I agree with) it seems to me that anonymity does make "wrong" acts "right" in some way.

The penalty for acting unethically is "social dysfunction" and "physical self-destruction", but if one doesn't feel bad about an act, say raping someone, and gets away with it completely without anyone ever knowing, it seems it won't really have been unethical in this sense.

I wonder whether expressing unpopular thoughts can be seen as unethical though?... In that case I suppose every INTJ is probably inherently unethical in their behavior in some sense.

[plotthickens]

Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Care to back that up that statement? A guy walks up to a girl, drags her into the woods and rapes her. A guy walks up to a cow, slits its throat, cuts it up, throws it on the Bar B Que. Objectively observed, someone might say that all things being equal the reasoning is the same, the guy wanted what he wanted, and certainly the cow got the worse end of the deal, not the girl. Tactically/strategically is was simply an assessment on the guys part if he could pull it off.

Objectively observed , all consumption of other living things (ugly snakes, cute bunnies, broccoli, mushrooms, fuzzy spring lambs) is causing a death. If one can justify slaughtering lettuce for dinner but not a thinking animal, then the rationale is one of a matter of degrees. Thus causing lasting harm to a much higher-thinking being such as raping a human is concomitantly worse.

[The Frozen One]

Originally Posted by AnotherAvatar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Care to back that up that statement? A guy walks up to a girl, drags her into the woods and rapes her. A guy walks up to a cow, slits its throat, cuts it up, throws it on the Bar B Que. Objectively observed, someone might say that all things being equal the reasoning is the same, the guy wanted what he wanted, and certainly the cow got the worse end of the deal, not the girl. Tactically/strategically is was simply an assessment on the guys part if he could pull it off.

Frankly the difference is the purpose. The person who is out to kill the cow is looking for sustenance and nourishment.

The person who is looking to rape is seeking for personal gratification that is not necessary for their personal survival at the long term expense of another being.

The more apt comparison would be:

Killing a Cow for barbecue = Killing an attacking person in self defense (self preservation)

Raping a person in the woods = Seeking to torture an animal for nothing other than your own personal entertainment. (Self gratification)

[gypsy stardust]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This irrationally ignores the fact that INTJ's tend to be oddball characters that dismiss socially constructed ethical systems in favor of their own views, which are often quite "extreme" and "immoral" by the other types. Being such a character himself, this particular INTJ probably hoped that other INTJ's might have similar thoughts sometimes, and be able to actually talk about them.

Thinking that a woman, ANY woman, or any man for that matter deserves to be raped, to be "taught a lesson" or as retribution because someone is sexually rejected (once or a million times - doesn't matter) is not *INTJ* thinking. That is SOCIOPATHIC thinking.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One imagines that it is because they wanted to share their inner thoughts, and were looking to do so within the confines of an online community perceived to be less outrightly judgmental than the rest of the world.

Are you calling for a kind of community where condoning rape isn't judged?

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This irrationally ignores the fact that INTJ's tend to be oddball characters that dismiss socially constructed ethical systems in favor of their own views, which are often quite "extreme" and "immoral" by the other types. Being such a character himself, this particular INTJ probably hoped that other INTJ's might have similar thoughts sometimes, and be able to actually talk about them.

Rape.

We're talking about rape.

Rape rape rape. Not fun oddbal Sheldon oh you're so quirky.

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The amount of blind misandry, and adherence to various dogma's in this plus is as equally chilling as any misogyny in this place in my view.

Misandry is like "fuck men" (and doesn't really occur here). (I don't know if you have a firm grasp of what that term entails.)

Rape is, like, actually physically fucking someone against their will.

[AlfredSchnittke]

Just because you two (Gypsy and Zibber) are religious zealots that believe in objective morality handed down by God does not mean that it's true.

Sorry to burst your bubble. =(

[nowt]

Go rape a cow, you fucking spineless rapologists. No morality and less ethic involved.

	Originally Posted by nowt
	A guy walks up to a girl, drags her into the woods and rapes her. A guy walks up to a cow, drags it into the woods and rapes it.

[Nemesis]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just because you two (Gypsy and Zibber) are religious zealots that believe in objective morality handed down by God does not mean that it's true. Sorry to burst your bubble. =(

And how did you puke up this little assumption?

[AlfredSchnittke]

Also, let's tone down the histrionics for just a moment and consider a different case.

What if the OP had gone to a psychiatrist and expressed that he had these thoughts?

Should the psychiatrist react by saying, "What the hell is wrong with you!?1?! I don't condone rape!! Get out of my office this instant!!" ?

As far as I know, discussing one's thoughts/the thoughts of others about a certain subject is not to condone the actions discussed.

As far as I know, the OP did not say, "I raped a woman last night because I felt she deserved it. You guys think that was cool??"

The OP did say: "I have thoughts that rape is good sometimes. Anyone else have these?"

Finally, people can throw around their convenient little labels like "sociopath" all they want. All that does is dehumanize a fellow human being, which, to my mind, is more evil than rape, or at least on par with it anyhow.

So, bravo you little religious moralists, all you've done is act with the utmost hypocrisy, and needlessly ostracized a human being. Who knows, maybe now he actually will go out and rape someone because you've dehumanized him rather than seeing him as a human being in need of discussing his thoughts and feelings with fellow human beings.

Really, bravo. I'm sure you'll all go jerk each other off about how good you've made yourselves feel (and come back and deliver us another sermon about the evils of masturbation afterwards).

[Coralaisly]

Rape isn't 'teaching a vapid whore a lesson.' It's a violent, hateful crime which can scar the victim and her (or his) loved ones for the rest of their lives. And it's not just "vapid whores" who get raped. It's wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, cousins and friends (etc) of people who care about them.

[HIDE="Story Time"]One of my friends is a mother of four, divorced, works 3 jobs and 6 days a week (sometimes seven) to put food on the table for her children. She doesn't date because she doesn't have time, and has had a couple bad relationships and has decided that until her youngest child is on his own two feet, she's going to focus on her children instead of herself.

One evening at about 6 o'clock she was home with her youngest two children, sons, ages 8 and 12. She put dinner on the stove and told her elder son to keep an eye on it and stir it occasionally, as he was doing his homework in the kitchen anyway, so she could go take a nap.

She went upstairs and laid down for a few minutes sleep after her 12 hour day and woke a few minutes later noticing that her window was open and had been closed when she went to sleep. She went to get up and was attacked by a man who put a knife to her throat and told her (in far more colorful language than I'm willing to repeat) that he would murder her children and her if she made a sound and then raped her.

While she was being raped, her son came up to wake her for dinner. He saw everything. The attacker took over her house and made her serve him dinner and made her children call him "dad." He made them watch TV with him and treat him like their father (even going so far as to hit her son when he didn't respond as he was supposed to) for about four hours. After this, he took them all back upstairs, made her sons "sleep" on her floor so as to keep an eye on them, raped her three times more, and then escaped into the night out the same window he'd entered through.

She had to retell this story in front of her sons in court, and they had to tell what they witnessed as well. This man had done this to multiple families over the course of a five month period.

It's been a few years since this event happened. She and her sons are all in therapy for PTSD after the event. Her younger son received stitches from having been hit in the face with the handle end of the attacker's knife.[/HIDE]

[HIDE="Another Story"]
About a year ago, when I was living with a female roommate, we lived near a pretty secluded hiking / biking / horse trail.

A woman was out jogging by herself in the early evening. A man pulled her into the bushes and raped her. He put duct tape over her mouth and when he was done, over her nose. He didn't happen to seal the tape on her nose well, so she ended up surviving. Her wrists and ankles were also bound.

He broke her wrist and pelvis in his attack. She also had multiple bruises and cuts from being hit during the attack. She narrowly survived, and wouldn't have, had there been more light so that her attacker could tell that he hadn't sealed the tape.

This attack happened between a middle and elementary school on a path that children from 6 to 14 travel on a daily basis to get to school.
[/HIDE]

There is nothing noble about raping or being raped. Nothing. Not even a little. It's not just sex, and doesn't teach lessons or perform a service to society. It destroys the lives of the victims, and sometimes their families as well.

Many women are already wary of men as is. We've no idea what the random people we encounter on a daily basis have been through, or why they are the way they are. It's perfectly possible that the "vapid whores" have good reasons for being the way they are. It's not for us to judge. A belief that if they're stuck up, stupid or have some perceived flaw that needs to be punished does not help this situation. All it does is breed more mistrust and fear.

[AlfredSchnittke]

	Originally Posted by Nemesis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And how did you puke up this little assumption?

The only people I've ever known to be so morally self-righteous are religious zealots.

It would be quite the irrational, somewhat deranged, atheist that would act in such a manner, though I suppose it might be possible. The mere zealous adherence to the illusion of absolute morality is enough to qualify as being religious in some sense though.

[INTJRyan]

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	hyperbole

There's a difference between sharing thoughts and having an intelligent discussion about rape versus asserting that "rape is a job that needs to be done" purely out of punishment for rejecting the rapist as the OP did. OP was rightfully rebuffed. And yes, atheists can rationally be against rape; I don't understand how you can't see this.

[nowt]

Given the quality of his posts, what are the odds he's going to take your posts as validating his oh so idle thoughts?--

He's better off raping cows, and you can always PM him, to see how that goes.

	Originally Posted by AlfredSchnittke To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	<snip ye olde anecdotal hypocritical sanctimonious straw man for rape's sake>

[Distance]

Rational thought precludes rape.

To put irrational thought into text, puts one at the mercy of social justice. To even put irrational thought into text and expect or demand mercy, is irrational.

[Nemesis]

Idiots say the darndest things.