[Silverity]

	Originally Posted by gestalt To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The best form of birth control may actually for men. Inject a gel polymer into the vas deferens that electromagnetically tears apart sperm material as sperm get shot by. That's the way to go: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . Still in trials though.

I totally wish more guys would use birth control =\ I have a feeling a lot of them would consider it an onslaught to their masculinity though ><;

[SacrificialLove]

Originally Posted by Storm To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

25% typical-use* failure rate, and you can't have sex for half the month: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. If you don't mind not having sex for that amount of time, and getting pregnant isn't a big deal to you, then it's probably a good option. Probably not a good option for someone who absolutely does not want to get pregnant and doesn't want to have to abstain for 2 weeks out of the month. *Always use typical use, we are not goddesses.

Obviously any source has its own biases -- You are pulling info from Planned Parenthood; my sources show different (and far lower) failure rates. A significant distinction should be made between Fertility Awareness/NFP and the outdated Calendar/Rhythm Method. Any source that does not separate the two is not well informed and is either deliberately or unintentionally spreading incorrect information.

[plotthickens]

Originally Posted by SacrificialLove To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Obviously any source has its own biases -- You are pulling info from Planned Parenthood; my sources show different (and far lower) failure rates. A significant distinction should be made between Fertility Awareness/NFP and the outdated Calendar/Rhythm Method. Any source that does not separate the two is not well informed and is either deliberately or unintentionally spreading incorrect information.

It is a fact that any rhythm or other non-intervention method is much, much less effective. Period.

It is a fact that, for 2 weeks out of the month, you can't have penetrative sex if you don't want to get pregnant.

It is a fact that this method does not protect against STDs.

I understand that you are religiously motivated, but to imply that your methods are effective is misleading.

[SacrificialLove]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is a fact that any rhythm or other non-intervention method is much, much less effective. Period.

97%-99% effective is not "much much less." Period.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is a fact that, for 2 weeks out of the month, you can't have penetrative sex if you don't want to get pregnant.

If a couple finds themselves abstaining for half of every month, I would strongly suggest learning a different method. Sympto-Thermal, Billings/Creighton, and Marquette are the three most popular.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is a fact that this method does not protect against STDs.

I never claimed that it did, so no argument there. IUDs don't protect against STDs, either. Neither does the Pill.

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I understand that you are religiously motivated, but to imply that your methods are effective is misleading.

I was open to natural methods of birth control before I was religious, and I have personally taught non-religious people the method successfully. Try again.

	Originally Posted by Noelle Winters in the future To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem with NFP is that the woman's cycle naturally fluctuates a bit, it isn't 28 days on the dot every single month. Even things such as stress can cause your hormones to fluctuate and push the cycle outside of the 28 days. That is why the failure rate is so high compared to hormonal treatments.

NFP is the observation of each cycle as it happens, so it naturally accounts for variation without any problem at all. What you speak of is the Calendar/Rhythm Method. I am not advocating the use of the C/RM.


----- Edited to add -----

I am not looking for an argument. This is the most I will defend my position -- If someone wants more information, they can Google it or PM me (if they are interested in using NFP, not in bashing it). I do not believe I have attacked anyone else in their choice of birth control, but if I have, I apologize. My goal was to offer a lesser-known alternative to the cultural norm; no one here on INTJf has to approve of it.
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Bowing out before I regret it, LOL....

[Noelle]

The problem with NFP is that the woman's cycle naturally fluctuates a bit, it isn't 28 days on the dot every single month. Even things such as stress can cause your hormones to fluctuate and push the cycle outside of the 28 days. That is why the failure rate is so high compared to hormonal treatments.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by SacrificialLove To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Obviously any source has its own biases -- You are pulling info from Planned Parenthood; my sources show different (and far lower) failure rates. A significant distinction should be made between Fertility Awareness/NFP and the outdated Calendar/Rhythm Method. Any source that does not separate the two is not well informed and is either deliberately or unintentionally spreading incorrect information.

I just pulled the chart from an image search to illustrate that the method involves abstaining from sex for over a week and a half out of the month, no matter how you figure which days not to have sex on.
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neutral website says the same thing (which is where I actually refreshed my memory on the method), and even
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pro-fertility awareness website gives you numbers of "13% to 20%" for "experienced" users and tells you abstain for, again, over a week and a half. The typical use chance of pregnancy is about 25%. You'll see the same number published everywhere because that's the number peer-reviewed studies keep coming up with. It is true that estimated perfect-use is a 10% failure rate (our pro-website estimates 2% to 3%) - but like I said, you should never use the perfect use number when deciding which birth control to use because you are not perfect.

Like plotty said, even if you're using basal temperatures or checking out your vaginal mucus everyday, there are still going to be about 12 days of the month you won't be having sex. Unless you have some kind of fertility problem, or worse, you are actually have a longer fertility period than the calendar method estimates.

I'm not attacking you, but these are the numbers. Anyone using a natural method should realize the failure rate is higher than that of a hormonal method (and yes, a 5% failure rate is significantly lower than even a 17% failure rate), and that it's going to require abstaining from sex for a week and a half. So, like I said, if getting pregnant isn't a big deal to you and you don't mind abstaining from sex, then it's a great method. Otherwise, probably want to look into something else.

[mieu]

	Originally Posted by Noelle Winters To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem with NFP is that the woman's cycle naturally fluctuates a bit, it isn't 28 days on the dot every single month. Even things such as stress can cause your hormones to fluctuate and push the cycle outside of the 28 days. That is why the failure rate is so high compared to hormonal treatments.

Ding ding! When I wasn't on BC my periods would come either on-time or up to a week and a half late. Some women ovulate the day their period ends, some ovulate a week after (according to my gyno). I know better than to play Russian roulette.

[Booko]

It gave me hellacious leg cramps and made me so unbearable I could hardly stand myself.

Plus, I got pregnant not once, but twice, while using it totally properly.

Not that I would recommend this, but honestly we had better luck with Vatican roulette. Go figure.

There are a lot more possibilities for bc out there today. Not that I care any more, but eventually my daughter will. So I look forward to hearing what y'all say so I can keep that in mind.

[Storm]

	Originally Posted by SacrificialLove To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	97%-99% effective is not "much much less." Period.

That's perfect use numbers. If you want to fairly compare it to hormonal methods, then perfect use would be 99.9% effective. Or, 1 out of 100 women compared to 1 out of 1,000. Which means that hormonal methods are still 10 times more effective than natural methods, So yes, still significantly more effective.

[Axion004]

Isn't creating children the only biological reason to have sex(disregarding any forms of hedonism)? If you don't want to create children then don't have sex. If you want to have sex and not create children then you are going to have to cheat or plan a very good "safe time calender."

[DrAwkward]

	Originally Posted by Axion004 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Isn't creating children the only biological reason to have sex(disregarding any forms of hedonism)? If you don't want to create children then don't have sex. If you want to have sex and not create children then you are going to have to cheat or plan a very good "safe time calender."

Sometimes ladies enjoy having sex because it feels nice
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I see the part about hedonism now but it's not so easy for us to disregard, either.

As far as "cheating", I guess that's what I did.

[Noelle]

	Originally Posted by Axion004 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Isn't creating children the only biological reason to have sex(disregarding any forms of hedonism)? If you don't want to create children then don't have sex. If you want to have sex and not create children then you are going to have to cheat or plan a very good "safe time calender."

Even if we revert to the 1800s and only have sex to pop out babies, there are several health reasons for a woman to go onto birth control, ranging anywhere from PCOS to severe anemia.

[Storm]

	Originally Posted by Axion004 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Isn't creating children the only biological reason to have sex(disregarding any forms of hedonism)? If you don't want to create children then don't have sex. If you want to have sex and not create children then you are going to have to cheat or plan a very good "safe time calender."

Sex is social in humanity, not just pro-creative. People have sex to form social bonds, alliances, gain favors, etc. That's one reason why the human female desires sex even when she is not fertile, in contrast to other non-social species. You see social sex other social animals, such as dolphins and chimps.

[Dialetheism]

	Originally Posted by s4nder To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't get why people would use contraception that messes with their hormones and causes various health problems when condoms are readily available. Do you fuck so much you can't afford condoms?

That's a rather vulgar approach. Condom use is not so simplistic; latex allergies, tearing, user error, spillage etc...Not to mention reduced sensation. I use a copper IUD. Potential drawbacks are: Children-If you haven't had any (and I haven't either) the provider may be less apt to attempt to place one (the uterus is a tad smaller and less accommodating, something you will not likely appreciate unless you experience the terrible cramping of having one placed). STD/I'S- Monogamy/safe sex is of utmost importance, contracting a STI such as chlamydia can encourage cervical cancer/PID in women who have IUD's. And lastly, but not so likely tearing of the uterus itself from incorrect placement and also if you do become pregnant (odds are very very very low) you are most likely to have an ectopic pregnancy.
With all those caveats I am extremely happy with mine and would recommend it for responsible women.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Dialetheism To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	With all those caveats I am extremely happy with mine and would recommend it for responsible women.

Curious... what constitutes a "responsible woman"?

[Dialetheism]

I was going to say safe sex practices to avoid medical complications (pid, cancer) but then I looked for research to back it up and apparently that theory has been disproven since I had mine placed. It was stressed repeatedly to me, and in what I read (5 years ago) that for some physiological reason copper IUD's encourage those complications from STI's. Good to know its not the case, sorry for the misinformation.
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[ummon]

Originally Posted by SacrificialLove To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

When I was a teen, I was totally creeped out by the idea of introducing artificial (or natural, for that matter) hormones/substances/drugs/whatever into my perfectly healthy body, as a way to avoid pregnancy, LOL. It just wasn't my cup of tea. When I was about 20 years old, I discovered Fertility Awareness (sans condoms)/Natural Family Planning, which is what I currently use as birth control, when needed. If you're interested, I'll post some links. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Interesting. I'd consider using this possibly in addition to condoms. I just can't stand the thought of chemicals or intrusive methods for birth control.