Relationships: What happens if someone's appearance changes?

**holdyourhead** · 03-19-2012, 06:14 PM

My second thread.
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OK, so this thread was prompted by
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in the 'INTJ Social Experiment: Dating' member blog thread.

I understand that for many people, an immediate or strong physical attraction is the basis of creating a spark or "heat" and forming a relationship, and later, love developing. In my mind, this is a flawed ideology, which I'd posted about in another thread somewhere a while back, because it can often keep leading people into relationships that repeatedly don't work out once the "heat" is gone, or relationships that do last but have a lot of problems that are never resolved. For me, physical attraction has nothing to do with emotional attraction.

For me, I need the emotional attraction to feel passion. But for some, they feel they need that initial physical attraction and heat, in order to feel passion. So, for some people, I guess it is the only way they can start relationships.

So my question is, for those who need a very strong physical attraction to allow any potential for romance, what happens if the apperance of your partner changes? (This could be because they simply allowed it to happen by no longer taking care of themselves. Or it could happen from a horrible accident.)

Does this mean that the passion will be gone? What happens to the love that was built out of the intense sexual attraction/passion/spark/heat?

For those who would still remain passionately in love with this person, then a further question is, if this is the case then why is it considered such a heavy requirement to have strong physical attraction in order to even consider any potential romantic interest in a person you meet or see? If it's still possible to passionately love someone who changes to look like someone you wouldn't have previously considered, then why is it being required in the first place?

Another factor is growing old. And I'm not just talking about the body starting to change a little bit. What about once you are grey and wrinkley all over. If you would not consider someone of that appearance to have any potential romantic interest now, why would you still consider your partner a romantic interest when they have grown old?

It's all of these things that make it seem flawed to place so much emphasis and make decisions of romatic potential based on physical appearance alone before you know anything about someone, because for some of these people, they surely would still love someone if they changed. So why can't the person be loved if they were already like the "changed" version...

Discuss topic. (However you want.)

**Ambra** · 03-19-2012, 06:34 PM

Personally, I think it is important to have a partner that evolves. One thing can take the place of another. As long as they continue to grow, I find value in some part of them.

Physical attraction is just one aspect of many. It isn't the most important, but in most cases, it is the one you will notice from across the room.

**monkeysox** · 03-20-2012, 11:13 AM

I have this issue in my dating life. I am a big girl, and most men do not like big girls. I make a fantastic girlfriend, I am not too crazy, I put a sweater on when I am cold, I am not too clingy, I could go on. But I don't really fault men for not digging me the way that I am now. One of the reasons being that I understand physical attraction. Being a bigger girl, I get a lot of black men that hit on me. Its not that I am racist (which I get accused of often by the rejected men), its just that very few black men have intrigued me enough to be interested. I do have a preference to not date a heavy man (one that has no interest in improving the both of us) simply because I know we will both do nothing but eat.

I do a lot of online dating, however. A lot of times, I don't even ask for a picture, especially if there is a conversational spark. The INTJ that brought me here so long ago, actually had me hooked for 3 months before I ever saw what he looked like. I did know the basics, 6'5'', 250lbs, brown hair, blue eyes, and it didn't even phase me to know he got a little chunky once he left the military, because I loved his brain.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I get that physical attraction is important, and I think some men have missed out on a really great girl because of being focused on it, but at the same time, I can't really blame them either.

**holdyourhead** · 03-20-2012, 11:56 AM

The interesting thing about attraction is how much is learnt culturally and also heavily influenced by the media. There are some biological factors at play, but it is common in different cultures to find different physical appearances more attractive. The thing about the black guys is relevant because there are cultures in the world where a bigger woman is typically found to be more attractive. Part of this can carry over with immigrants from other cultures, and pass through the generations of their decendants.

You make a good point about people missing out on a really great girl, and that is exactly how I feel. I feel like I have the best girl in the world, she is absolutely perfect for me and my love for her has kept growing for 5 years. But I wouldn't be with her if I had been focused on physical appearance first and foremost, and as a result would not have even a small fraction of the happiness in my life that I have to this day.

I still have to ask the question, if a very strong physical attraction is required for love to develop for many people, what happens if this person's appearance changes drastically (especially when through no fault of their own)? How can you still love that person if a strong physical attraction was needed to love them in the first place?

**PippaHayes** · 03-20-2012, 12:33 PM

	Originally Posted by holdyourhead To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I still have to ask the question, if a very strong physical attraction is required for love to develop for many people, what happens if this person's appearance changes drastically (especially when through no fault of their own)? How can you still love that person if a strong physical attraction was needed to love them in the first place?

I don't think you need the strong physical attraction to love in the first place. You need it to LUST in the first place. The honeymoon period dies down in any relationship after some time, however long. True, I would not have got together with my boyfriend if we were not both physically attracted to one another. But now we've been together a long time, yes, I would prefer that he stays attractive, but I love him far too much to leave him if his appearance changes! That is waaay not important anymore! At first, before I knew where the relationship was going, looks were more important- he was a great friend, and the chemistry between us (which, by the way, isn't based solely on looks- I didn't fancy him until I got to know him better) was great, so we got together. The longer you spend with someone, your priorities change. Now, I know we have a happy, stable life together, and if he turned ugly overnight, I'd still have that happiness, that stability, those same plans for the future.

I guess it also depends on your sexuality, as to how important that is in a relationship. It's a wide spectrum.

**msd543** · 03-20-2012, 03:00 PM

I think physical attraction is an important part of a romantic relationship. However, I've also found when I get feelings for a girl they become more attractive to me than they were originally, so the love kinda takes care of attraction to some degree. However, over time I think change in appearance is a small factor in passionate/romantic love. I think that kind of thing starts to fade no matter for a majority of people, so what's really important is to date someone that's (one of) your best friend(s). That way even when the passion is gone (not all the time, hopefully, but sometimes), you'll still love being around them. But I think if physical attraction does start to play an important role in loss of desire, it should be brought up with your significant other, in as delicate a manner as possible.

**SilkTaffeta** · 03-20-2012, 03:26 PM

We all change with age. That said, some effort at not letting yourself go is a good plan: an ex gaining 60 pounds on an already large frame killed much of the physical attraction ftome. We ended it for other reasons.

**JohnDoe** · 03-20-2012, 09:57 PM

With the exception of people with rare untreatable ailments physical appearance strongly correlates with ambition. Someone without ambition? Dump.

**zibber** · 03-20-2012, 11:54 PM

	Originally Posted by monkeysox To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess what I am trying to say is that I get that physical attraction is important, and I think some men have missed out on a really great girl because of being focused on it, but at the same time, I can't really blame them either.

There is a lot of visual conditioning at play too. I blame capitalism and I blame the patriarchy.

**Bardas** · 03-21-2012, 12:21 AM

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	With the exception of people with rare untreatable ailments physical appearance strongly correlates with ambition. Someone without ambition? Dump.

Does that honestly go through your head? "Wow, look at that face. No ambition in this one."

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 12:24 AM

	Originally Posted by Bardas To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Does that honestly go through your head? "Wow, look at that face. No ambition in this one."

Face? No. If someone is overweight? yes. Absent a real physical constraint on fitness, people who are ambitious tend to take care of their body. This is really just a minimum cutoff. Beyond being fit I don't typically care. I want my body to be awesome because I want to be awesome. I don't think I could be with someone who didn't care if they were awesome.

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 12:40 AM

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Face? No. If someone is overweight? yes. Absent a real physical constraint on fitness, people who are ambitious tend to take care of their body. This is really just a minimum cutoff. Beyond being fit I don't typically care. I want my body to be awesome because I want to be awesome. I don't think I could be with someone who didn't care if they were awesome.

Oprah. Just sayin'

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 12:45 AM

	Originally Posted by RedOrange823 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Oprah. Just sayin'

Oprah never set out to change the world, she stumbled into it.

Consider wozniak vs jobs. Its no coincidence the one with the ambition was the skinny one.

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 12:48 AM

Doesn't matter what she originally set out to do, what matters is that when she was in that spot, she continued to pursue what she was doing. That's still ambition whichever way you slice it.

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 12:51 AM

	Originally Posted by RedOrange823 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Doesn't matter what she originally set out to do, what matters is that when she was in that spot, she continued to pursue what she was doing. That's still ambition whichever way you slice it.

I completely disagree. There is a huge difference between someone like Gates or Jobs who set out to conquer the world and someone like Oprah who happened to end up conquering the world because she was in the right place at the right time. Setting out to conquer the world requires creating the opportunity to be in the right place at the right time. Entirely different mindset is required. It is the difference between the guy who stumbles into basketball because he is tall and the guy who practices 8 hours a day until he makes it. People who are out of shape or overweight tend to lack discipline (baring an untreatable health condition).

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 12:58 AM

Lack of discipline ≠ not ambitious. It might make your struggle harder, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're less motivated or that you want it less.

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 12:59 AM

	Originally Posted by RedOrange823 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Lack of discipline ≠ not ambitious. It might make your struggle harder, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're less motivated or that you want it less.

You can't be successfully ambitious without discipline. Ambition without discipline is just lazy pipedreams.

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 01:04 AM

I think you're confusing 90% discipline with 0% discipline. It's not an either/or thing, I believe it to be on a spectrum and lack of discipline in one area does not need to affect discipline in another.

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 01:10 AM

	Originally Posted by RedOrange823 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think you're confusing 90% discipline with 0% discipline. It's not an either/or thing, I believe it to be on a spectrum and lack of discipline in one area does not need to affect discipline in another.

Quite frankly I've yet to see people who are disciplined enough to be successfully ambitious in one area of life and not have it spill over to a significant amount to all other parts of their life. You can either discipline yourself successfully in all areas or you lack the ability to control yourself at all.

**Haumea** · 03-21-2012, 01:12 AM


	There is a lot of visual conditioning at play too. I blame capitalism and I blame the patriarchy.

If I remember correctly, the iconic Soviet man and woman were in pretty good shape.

But of course you were just being silly as usual, right?

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 01:15 AM

Well, then you need to meet more people. Or clear your perspective glasses. You're presupposing that ambitious people need to care about their health at all, but, many of them don't lest they get the proper 8 hours of sleep and never miss a meal...

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 01:19 AM

	Originally Posted by RedOrange823 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well, then you need to meet more people. Or clear your perspective glasses. You're presupposing that ambitious people need to care about their health at all, but, many of them don't lest they get the proper 8 hours of sleep and never miss a meal...

In the long run to sustain ambition you need a healthy body. You can not permanently run on 4 hours of sleep in the name of ambition. (Unless you are a genetic mutant).

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 01:24 AM

To sustain, maybe, but not to be.

**JohnDoe** · 03-21-2012, 01:28 AM

	Originally Posted by RedOrange823 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To sustain, maybe, but not to be.

To sustain ambition and bring your ambitions to fruition, where you are ambitions require > 1 yr to achieve requires a healthy body. Jeeze stop rules lawyering. You can't change the world if your body is breaking down. You can dream about it, but dreamers are a dime a dozen. I don't want to date a dreamer. I want to date someone who makes things happen.

**RedOrange823** · 03-21-2012, 01:29 AM

Oprah made things happen. Square One.

---------- Post added 03-21-2012 at 02:30 AM ----------

Anyway, whatever, I'm just being cranky and I'm bored with this. Carry on all.

03-19-2012, 06:14 PM	#1
holdyourhead Member [26%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,071	My second thread. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. OK, so this thread was prompted by To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in the 'INTJ Social Experiment: Dating' member blog thread. I understand that for many people, an immediate or strong physical attraction is the basis of creating a spark or "heat" and forming a relationship, and later, love developing. In my mind, this is a flawed ideology, which I'd posted about in another thread somewhere a while back, because it can often keep leading people into relationships that repeatedly don't work out once the "heat" is gone, or relationships that do last but have a lot of problems that are never resolved. For me, physical attraction has nothing to do with emotional attraction. For me, I need the emotional attraction to feel passion. But for some, they feel they need that initial physical attraction and heat, in order to feel passion. So, for some people, I guess it is the only way they can start relationships. So my question is, for those who need a very strong physical attraction to allow any potential for romance, what happens if the apperance of your partner changes? (This could be because they simply allowed it to happen by no longer taking care of themselves. Or it could happen from a horrible accident.) Does this mean that the passion will be gone? What happens to the love that was built out of the intense sexual attraction/passion/spark/heat? For those who would still remain passionately in love with this person, then a further question is, if this is the case then why is it considered such a heavy requirement to have strong physical attraction in order to even consider any potential romantic interest in a person you meet or see? If it's still possible to passionately love someone who changes to look like someone you wouldn't have previously considered, then why is it being required in the first place? Another factor is growing old. And I'm not just talking about the body starting to change a little bit. What about once you are grey and wrinkley all over. If you would not consider someone of that appearance to have any potential romantic interest now, why would you still consider your partner a romantic interest when they have grown old? It's all of these things that make it seem flawed to place so much emphasis and make decisions of romatic potential based on physical appearance alone before you know anything about someone, because for some of these people, they surely would still love someone if they changed. So why can't the person be loved if they were already like the "changed" version... Discuss topic. (However you want.)
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03-19-2012, 06:34 PM	#2
Ambra Veteran Member [58%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 2,327	Personally, I think it is important to have a partner that evolves. One thing can take the place of another. As long as they continue to grow, I find value in some part of them. Physical attraction is just one aspect of many. It isn't the most important, but in most cases, it is the one you will notice from across the room.
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03-20-2012, 11:13 AM	#3
monkeysox Member [03%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 136	I have this issue in my dating life. I am a big girl, and most men do not like big girls. I make a fantastic girlfriend, I am not too crazy, I put a sweater on when I am cold, I am not too clingy, I could go on. But I don't really fault men for not digging me the way that I am now. One of the reasons being that I understand physical attraction. Being a bigger girl, I get a lot of black men that hit on me. Its not that I am racist (which I get accused of often by the rejected men), its just that very few black men have intrigued me enough to be interested. I do have a preference to not date a heavy man (one that has no interest in improving the both of us) simply because I know we will both do nothing but eat. I do a lot of online dating, however. A lot of times, I don't even ask for a picture, especially if there is a conversational spark. The INTJ that brought me here so long ago, actually had me hooked for 3 months before I ever saw what he looked like. I did know the basics, 6'5'', 250lbs, brown hair, blue eyes, and it didn't even phase me to know he got a little chunky once he left the military, because I loved his brain. I guess what I am trying to say is that I get that physical attraction is important, and I think some men have missed out on a really great girl because of being focused on it, but at the same time, I can't really blame them either.
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03-20-2012, 11:56 AM	#4
holdyourhead Member [26%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,071	The interesting thing about attraction is how much is learnt culturally and also heavily influenced by the media. There are some biological factors at play, but it is common in different cultures to find different physical appearances more attractive. The thing about the black guys is relevant because there are cultures in the world where a bigger woman is typically found to be more attractive. Part of this can carry over with immigrants from other cultures, and pass through the generations of their decendants. You make a good point about people missing out on a really great girl, and that is exactly how I feel. I feel like I have the best girl in the world, she is absolutely perfect for me and my love for her has kept growing for 5 years. But I wouldn't be with her if I had been focused on physical appearance first and foremost, and as a result would not have even a small fraction of the happiness in my life that I have to this day. I still have to ask the question, if a very strong physical attraction is required for love to develop for many people, what happens if this person's appearance changes drastically (especially when through no fault of their own)? How can you still love that person if a strong physical attraction was needed to love them in the first place?
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03-20-2012, 03:00 PM	#6
msd543 New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 15	I think physical attraction is an important part of a romantic relationship. However, I've also found when I get feelings for a girl they become more attractive to me than they were originally, so the love kinda takes care of attraction to some degree. However, over time I think change in appearance is a small factor in passionate/romantic love. I think that kind of thing starts to fade no matter for a majority of people, so what's really important is to date someone that's (one of) your best friend(s). That way even when the passion is gone (not all the time, hopefully, but sometimes), you'll still love being around them. But I think if physical attraction does start to play an important role in loss of desire, it should be brought up with your significant other, in as delicate a manner as possible.
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03-20-2012, 03:26 PM	#7
SilkTaffeta New Member [01%] MBTI: enfp Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 35	We all change with age. That said, some effort at not letting yourself go is a good plan: an ex gaining 60 pounds on an already large frame killed much of the physical attraction ftome. We ended it for other reasons.
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03-20-2012, 09:57 PM	#8
JohnDoe Core Member [130%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,203	With the exception of people with rare untreatable ailments physical appearance strongly correlates with ambition. Someone without ambition? Dump.
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03-21-2012, 12:48 AM	#14
RedOrange823 Core Member [557%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 22,318	Doesn't matter what she originally set out to do, what matters is that when she was in that spot, she continued to pursue what she was doing. That's still ambition whichever way you slice it.
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03-21-2012, 12:58 AM	#16
RedOrange823 Core Member [557%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 22,318	Lack of discipline ≠ not ambitious. It might make your struggle harder, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're less motivated or that you want it less.
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03-21-2012, 01:04 AM	#18
RedOrange823 Core Member [557%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 22,318	I think you're confusing 90% discipline with 0% discipline. It's not an either/or thing, I believe it to be on a spectrum and lack of discipline in one area does not need to affect discipline in another.
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03-21-2012, 01:15 AM	#21
RedOrange823 Core Member [557%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 22,318	Well, then you need to meet more people. Or clear your perspective glasses. You're presupposing that ambitious people need to care about their health at all, but, many of them don't lest they get the proper 8 hours of sleep and never miss a meal...
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03-21-2012, 01:24 AM	#23
RedOrange823 Core Member [557%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 22,318	To sustain, maybe, but not to be.
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03-21-2012, 01:29 AM	#25
RedOrange823 Core Member [557%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 22,318	Oprah made things happen. Square One. ---------- Post added 03-21-2012 at 02:30 AM ---------- Anyway, whatever, I'm just being cranky and I'm bored with this. Carry on all.
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