[nowt]

Pretty certain divorces occur because of recognition of inadequacies--

That'd be shame, for those of you with dictionaries more catechism than lexicon.

	Originally Posted by anticlimaCtic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There's no shame left in it.

As to enforced adoption? Phenomenally retarded. Here's a better idea--

The Catholic Church makes it so none are saved unless they adopt--

After all, eternal salvation is worth more than marriage.

[INTJRyan]

Originally Posted by anticlimatic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The marriage thing is interesting-- beyond the idea that love, or a relationship, isn't quite real until some faceless bureaucrat gives it their stamp of approval. There's tax breaks as incentives to marry, I'm told, but I'm not sure what they are, or why they are. Religious bias? Maybe, but doubtful without grounds...I imagine they were put into place to encourage family breeding back in the Rockefeller "I want a nation of workers, not thinkers" era, which makes sense for then, but not for now. I feel like we've more or less reversed that course, and spend more time now thinking than working. Getting back to marriage, there's only two incentives I can see: tax breaks, and public validation. Anyone who needs public validation can blow me, as far as I'm concerned, but the tax breaks are a good case. Particularly since marriage is no longer the baby-factory that it used to be, thanks mostly to the rise of women, and their crazy unwillingness to put up with abuse and degradation. It actually makes sense, to be sure, but it had a strange side effect-- divorce rates have To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , while marriage rates have To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , rendering the other benefit of marriage-- providing additional relationship security-- null and void. Problematic marriage? Divorce. Tired of spouse? Divorce. There's no shame left in it. Homosexuals have finally arrived at the doors of marriage just in time to watch the house fall down behind it. I like the idea of marriage as incentive to breed, which is where it runs into a snag with homosexuality-- but since two gay parents can raise a child just as well as two straight parents, and there are plenty of children out there just begging to be born-- we could solve both the abortion problem and the homosexual marriage problem if every marrying couple agreed to take in a child from an unwanted pregnancy. I think this would be a phenomenal compromise. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

wtfamireading?

You only see two incentives? You need to look a lot harder.
[HIDE="A lot. Harder."]
* Right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits, including:
o Social Security pension
o veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing
o survivor benefits for federal employees
o survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers
o additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease
o $100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty
o continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits
o renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse
o continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances
o payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death
o making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts
* Right to benefits while married:
o employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges
o per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating
o Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)
o sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits
* Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
o veteran's disability
o Supplemental Security Income
o disability payments for federal employees
o medicaid
o property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
o income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
o wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax[3]
* Joint and family-related rights:
o joint filing of bankruptcy permitted
o joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records
o family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
o next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
o custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce
o domestic violence intervention
o access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods
* Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs
* Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.
* Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
* Spouse's flower sales count towards meeting the eligibility for Fresh Cut Flowers and Fresh Cut Greens Promotion and Information Act (No idea what the fuck this means)
* Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime
* Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse
* Court notice of probate proceedings
* Domestic violence protection orders
* Existing homestead lease continuation of rights
* Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption
* Funeral and bereavement leave
* Joint adoption and foster care
* Joint tax filing
* Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society
* Legal status with stepchildren
* Making spousal medical decisions
* Spousal non-resident tuition deferential waiver
* Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
* Right of survivorship of custodial trust
* Right to change surname upon marriage
* Right to enter into prenuptial agreement
* Right to inheritance of property
* Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)[/HIDE]

Marriage as an incentive to breed runs into a snag with homosexuality? As it does with sterile couples, couples who choose not to procreate etc. There is no rational argument against granting the above rights to any two people that want them via civil union, and it really is that simple with respect to the government. Get married in your church, temple, drive thru, etc.

[anticlimatic]

Originally Posted by vampyroteuthis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Look harder at the bits I highlighted, in my last post as well as this one. You keep making the discussion about you by relegating anything that you can't defend into either 'my personal belief' or 'a rock buried in history that only I can see'. It's the same line of reasoning that boxes up 'Christian code' and your 'personal ideas' as sacrosanct. Yet this rock is being eroded by an as yet unclear loss attendant on the rise of the women's movement and the visibility of homosexuality. So how is that not relevant?

Hmm, I kind of see what you mean...but as far as looking harder at the parts of my post that you put in bold, I really can't intuit much from it. The words I express have a particular meaning, and I can't really see any other interpretations just by looking at them twice. Specific questions in full sentences draw out more explanation in me than various finger pointing from folks shouting WRONG! (not exactly accusing you of doing this, just illustrating the distinction).

There's nothing "sacrosanct" about ideas. You seem very involved in the war on religion, and I don't blame you, but I'm not trying to promote religion at all. I offer, instead, some of the ideas that religion (I cited christiantiy in particular) happens to promote. These ideas are as open to the same ridicule and contest as any other idea, and such is wholly welcome. The "rock buried in history that no one can see but me" makes me think maybe I didn't do a good enough job identifying exactly what this rock is? If that's the case, it was only because I assumed you knew already, not because I can't identify and explain it-- but again, I'm not sure if it's on topic. I'll be happy to post it though, even under threat of non-pertinent removal. Or if you want to start another thread?

Just because something is my personal belief doesn't make it immune to criticism-- not knowing what it is certainly does (obviously), but keeping anyone in the dark is not my goal.

---------- Post added 03-23-2012 at 01:47 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by INTJRyan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You only see two incentives? You need to look a lot harder. [HIDE="A lot. Harder."]

Make that three:

1) Tax breaks.
2) Validation
3) Legal family rights

(I had lumped 1 and 3 together, previously)

	Originally Posted by INTJRyan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Marriage as an incentive to breed runs into a snag with homosexuality? As it does with sterile couples, couples who choose not to procreate etc.

Yes, just like those couples.

	Originally Posted by INTJRyan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There is no rational argument against granting the above rights to any two people that want them via civil union

I agree. But then it's marriage for the sake of picking my own family (which I agree with), not marriage as incentive to breed.

[firebee]

	Originally Posted by anticlimatic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anyone who needs public validation can blow me, as far as I'm concerned...

And yet you're ever so concerned with the need for the public at large to conduct themselves in a way that validates your value structure?

I hope you're flexible.

[anticlimatic]

Ew, no way. Demanding that the world change to suit me is way more of a J thing. I simply encourage others to be more independent, responsible, and accommodating-- to suit themselves to the world, rather than the other way around.

It's for their good, not mine...
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---------- Post added 03-23-2012 at 01:55 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by firebee To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And yet you're ever so concerned with the need for the public at large to conduct themselves in a way that validates your value structure? I hope you're flexible.

[nowt]

Yeah, because if it's one thing humans should not do, is change the world. Especially don't change it to anything at variance with my special book of Standard Operating Procedure for Morons, which would further weaken my death cult of choice--

	Originally Posted by anticlimaCtic To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	<snip vileness>

Or God will get mad and they will burn in Hell.

[idoj]

sigh...

I like the short cut
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I think society as a whole is suffering by not accepting the nature of human being, and being too ignorant to get the hint...

sigh...

(the sighs... Are directed at myself, just to clarify.)

[master j]

civilization is overrated.

[Subgenius]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Right. I would argue that divorce, especially when children are involved, is more detrimental to society than homosexuality could ever be. I wonder how he would respond to that.

Isn't divorce better for civilization by allowing for more reproduction?