[LadySpock]

There are now three new types of woman which marketers are targetting. Gone are the commercials aimed @ Stay at Home Moms who slave away scrubbing toilets & cooking for a gaggle of kids. This is because the new reality is - financially capable women who care about their children & families but who also earn money and have their own interests...you know - full and actual human beings.*

Read it & weep, traditionalist men, LOL!

The Indie Woman Age: 28-34 Marital status: single Average Income: $33,200 Career-driven with a healthy dose of cynicism, especially when it comes to romance, she relies on her friends as influencers more than the man in her life. To that end, she's not afraid to talk about topics her mother shied away from (birth control, tampons). She's also not afraid to splurge on big purchases, especially online. Biggest splurge: Designer clothes and accessories (bought for a bargain) We recognize her as: One of the Yaz besties who 'dish' on birth control over cocktails. The snarky Kotex tampon comedienne that makes fun of other tampon commercials. TJ Max's Max-inista. The Mom Achiever Age: 35-45 Marital status: Married or in a relationship with a child Average Income: $75,000 AdWeek sums up this type of target audience in a word: driven. She's a high-powered career woman who contributes heavily to the household income, and may even be the main-breadwinner in the family after the recent "man-cession." Unlike the homemakers in detergent commercials of yesteryear, she isn't the family washing machine. She also places a premium on alone time, away from work and family, which is why you're not likely to see her forking over Stovetop to a table full of neighborhood kids. Biggest Splurge: Gadgets, beauty products We recognize her as: The successful female celebrity (SJP, Kelly Ripa, etc) in anti-aging skincare ads. The woman in the Tide commercial who hands her baby over to her husband to change the diapers. The lady who needs some Laughing Cow me-time every now and then. The Alpha Goddess Age: 55-64 Marital status: Divorced, widowed or single Average Income: $69,000 Finally, and perhaps most importantly, is the single woman over 55. She's a smart investor that's as tech-savvy as someone half her age, and she's becoming one of the most powerful consumers in the country. Prepared to reap the benefits of her independence by spending more on her own self-improvement, the quest for dream-fulfillment make this female prototype a target for vacation packages, luxury cars, home improvement and, notably, anti-depressants. An emphasis on sensuality is also key to this demographic. According to AdWeek, this group spends the most on perfumes and is a blossoming portion of online daters. Biggest splurge: Travel, luxury cars, prescription drugs We recognize her as: The woman in the Pristiq ads who has to wind herself up to sell antiques. Martha Stewart. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

* Sarcasm

[themuzicman]

"Full and actual human beings"... So, in your opinion, the stay at home mom isn't a "full and actual human being." How feminist of you.

[Jason]

Ditto what muzikman said. My mother was an amazing stay-at-home mom, whose attention to her two children surpassed anything that a commercial daycare could have possibly provided in terms of quality, affection, and education. She was an exceptional caretaker, not only of her children but also of the home. Every room from the kitchen to the library was immaculate, orderly, and beautifully decorated. It made the house a home. I don't consider any of these things to be easy, degrading, or unnecessary tasks.

She deserved and earned every bit of respect, love, and kindness for her efforts. I consider myself incredibly fortunate and blessed that she wasn't a materialistic, cynical, technology-absorbed, man-hater.

[LadySpock]

Muzic,

Often no - Stay at Home Moms are not regarded by larger society (and in some cases their own families) as full and actual human beings.

Let's face it - in a Capitalist society anyone who doesn't contribute to GDP ain't thought of as fully human.

But...I do love the labels. Keep 'em coming.

---------- Post added 03-01-2012 at 07:43 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Jason To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ditto what muzikman said. My mother was an amazing stay-at-home mom, whose attention to her two children surpassed anything that a commercial daycare could have possibly provided in terms of quality, affection, and education.

You don't know that.

	She was an exceptional caretaker, not only of her children but also of the home. Every room from the kitchen to the library was immaculate, orderly, and beautifully decorated. It made the house a home. I don't consider any of these things to be easy, degrading, or unnecessary tasks.

You don't but lots of people do.

	She deserved and earned every bit of respect, love, and kindness for her efforts. I consider myself incredibly fortunate and blessed that she wasn't a materialistic, cynical, technology-absorbed, man-hater.

Sounds like she wasn't male and had no life or interests outside of cleaning the house.

Yep - someone said this in another thread: Men are highly regarded for what they do and women are highly regarded for what they don't do

[12357]

which kind of men nowadays expecting their wives staying at home then? pulling away tax issues

[Seriously]

Originally Posted by Jason To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ditto what muzikman said. My mother was an amazing stay-at-home mom, whose attention to her two children surpassed anything that a commercial daycare could have possibly provided in terms of quality, affection, and education. She was an exceptional caretaker, not only of her children but also of the home. Every room from the kitchen to the library was immaculate, orderly, and beautifully decorated. It made the house a home. I don't consider any of these things to be easy, degrading, or unnecessary tasks. She deserved and earned every bit of respect, love, and kindness for her efforts. I consider myself incredibly fortunate and blessed that she wasn't a materialistic, cynical, technology-absorbed, man-hater.

Interesting how you have to be one or the other. There is a middle ground you know.

My mom was a stay at home mom like yours and I agree with your comments about women who stay home. I'm not a stay at home mom. I don't want to be and I can't afford to be but that doesn't make me a materialistic, cynical, technology-absorbed, man-hater either.

I really don't understand the black and white thinking on either side of this issue.

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Muzic, Often no - Stay at Home Moms are not regarded by larger society (and in some cases their own families) as full and actual human beings.

Thanks to feminists for marginalizing women.

	Let's face it - in a Capitalist society anyone who doesn't contribute to GDP ain't thought of as fully human.

That certainly is a liberal perspective on people. Discard, displace and disrespect those that aren't wanted, elevate those that produce things now.

The more compassionate and conservative view is that stay at home moms perform the most important function in society, that being to produce high quality and well adjusted children who become the next generation.

(And here I though the misogyny was in the hip-hop thread)

I suppose the Daycare can do that for working moms who don't want to raise their own children....


As for these new "categories", marketers aren't marketing to these women. These are the ideals marketers create to try to influence women to want to become these things through buying their products.

[Jason]

LadySpock: My comment regarding the quality of care at daycare facilities is based on nearly lifelong experience with family members who are employed in that field. The assessments are always the same: despite caring for the children themselves, they 1) never love the children of others as much as they love their own, and 2) would never, after seeing the "mistakes" made in such facilities, feel comfortable leaving their children in the care of a commercial business.

Seriously: My comments about cynicism, etc., were drawn from the descriptions that seem to be favorably mentioned in the OP. I wouldn't tout these characteristics for either men or women, but many feminists seem to believe that equanimity among the sexes means having women emulate the worst male templates (in my opinion) that men have to offer. There are men who share in domestic tasks and child-rearing, while still maintaining their breadwinner position. There are men who aren't cynical, who aren't materialistic, and who aren't absorbed with superficial technological distractions. Why aren't these types of men looked to as examples? Probably because they're too similar to the supposed "subjugated housewife": they're unassuming, quiet, and polite.

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"Full and actual human beings"... So, in your opinion, the stay at home mom isn't a "full and actual human being." How feminist of you.

Stay-At-Home-Moms who are injured and cannot work are not allowed access to SSDI. Fix the attitudes that fed THAT hideous misjustice before you start acting all butt-hurt. LS is just calling it like it is:

	Often no - Stay at Home Moms are not regarded by larger society (and in some cases their own families) as full and actual human beings. Let's face it - in a Capitalist society anyone who doesn't contribute to GDP ain't thought of as fully human.

[Warrior]

All three of those descriptions apply to my grandmothers, although they did other things as well. "Traditional" seems to go back about two decades.

[yoginimama]

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	the new reality is - financially capable women who care about their children & families but who also earn money and have their own interests...you know - full and actual human beings...

Ooh! Ouch. As a longtime stay-at-home mom, I have to say that that really hit me the wrong way.

	Originally Posted by LadySpock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Stay at Home Moms are not regarded by larger society (and in some cases their own families) as full and actual human beings.

This can be true, but imho it reflects prejudice against the things that SAHMs do. The solution is not to push SAHMs into full or even part time jobs, but to make everyone understand that staying home is a job, and one which can be every bit as challenging and rewarding as any other job.

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Thanks to feminists for marginalizing women.

No, feminists are
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of advocating for the economic rights of mothers and caregivers.

From that page:

	NOW coined the slogan "Every Mother is a Working Mother" decades ago, and is continuing the fight for economic justice for mothers and others who do the caring work of our society.

[LadySpock]

	Originally Posted by 12357 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	which kind of men nowadays expecting their wives staying at home then? pulling away tax issues

Have you been reading some of the comments in this forum?

Anyway - I would say that most men don't expect this. Too many things have changed in the USA (socially) for "either-or" thinking to be practical.

---------- Post added 03-01-2012 at 08:05 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by yoginimama To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ooh! Ouch. As a longtime stay-at-home mom, I have to say that that really hit me the wrong way.

Clarified. Sorry
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[Haumea]

	Let's face it - in a Capitalist society anyone who doesn't contribute to GDP ain't thought of as fully human.

Projection, pure and simple. Feminists have marginalized stay-at-home moms for decades now.

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by yoginimama To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, feminists are To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. of advocating for the economic rights of mothers and caregivers. From that page:

And this page says:

	Originally Posted by LadySpock
	Gone are the commercials aimed @ Stay at Home Moms who slave away scrubbing toilets & cooking for a gaggle of kids. This is because the new reality is - financially capable women who care about their children & families but who also earn money and have their own interests...you know - full and actual human beings...

Which reflects the actual attitude of feminists, rather than what the put in public to hide that.

[LadySpock]

Originally Posted by Jason To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

LadySpock: My comment regarding the quality of care at daycare facilities is based on nearly lifelong experience with family members who are employed in that field. The assessments are always the same: despite caring for the children themselves, they 1) never love the children of others as much as they love their own, and 2) would never, after seeing the "mistakes" made in such facilities, feel comfortable leaving their children in the care of a commercial business.

Your comment reminds me of this slick talking federal contractor I worked with once. He claimed to have extensive knowledge of broad spectrum antibiotics because his WIFE is an ER NURSE.

	Seriously: My comments about cynicism, etc., were drawn from the descriptions that seem to be favorably mentioned in the OP. I wouldn't tout these characteristics for either men or women, but many feminists seem to believe that equanimity among the sexes means having women emulate the worst male templates (in my opinion) that men have to offer.

I am not familiar with this brand of feminism.

	There are men who share in domestic tasks and child-rearing, while still maintaining their breadwinner position.

"maintaining their Breadwinning position"?

Interesting wording...

	There are men who aren't cynical, who aren't materialistic, and who aren't absorbed with superficial technological distractions. Why aren't these types of men looked to as examples? Probably because they're too similar to the supposed "subjugated housewife": they're unassuming, quiet, and polite.

You have correctly identified one horrible aspect of patriarchy which feminism tries to fight
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[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Haumea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Projection, pure and simple. Feminists have marginalized stay-at-home moms for decades now.

I'm a SAHW and a Feminist. I HATE ME! WHAT A BITCH I AM!

*ahem* sorry...

"Every mother is a working mother" as a way to get rights and esteem for SAHMs is marginalizing?

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And this page says: Which reflects the actual attitude of feminists, rather than what the put in public to hide that.

So Corporate Sales = Feminism? If that's what you think, no wonder you have such a warped and bad view of Feminists. I don't like Corporate Sales either.

[Autumnleaf]

They are marketing to women who are taxpayers.


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I haven't fallen for the nonsense so don't feel too bad for me and traditionalist men like me.

Feminism explained.


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[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So Corporate Sales = Feminism? If that's what you think, no wonder you have such a warped and bad view of Feminists. I don't like Corporate Sales either.

I was quoting LadySpock.. you know, the text OUTside of the quote box?

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was quoting LadySpock.. you know, the text OUTside of the quote box?

Yes. She was talking about commercials. Which are whipped up by corporate sales departments.

[Jason]

LadySpock: You scoffed at my claim about the quality of daycare facilities by claiming that I "don't know that." I assume that "knowing" something about daycare facilities can be gathered from the observations of others who are able to provide that information. Anecdotal evidence may not be as rigorous as a controlled scientific study, but then, I'm not really sure that things like "caring" and "love" can be subjected to any real methodological analysis. That leaves me with the observations and experience of those who actually work in the field. I've done my part to provide evidence to you.

As for brands of feminism and the characteristics of patriarchy, your own OP favorably refers, both directly and indirectly, to traits such as materialism, cynicism, promiscuity, and so on. I don't consider these traits to be any more desirable in women than I do in men. I think these traits make people mean-spirited, unnecessarily harsh and distant, and self-absorbed. If these are the traits of patriarchy, then the author of your OP seems to approve of them (only in women, of course, not men).

[Moxiie]

*Giggling*

It appears that Lady Spock has been really effective at pushing some buttons here

*hands out popcorn to watch the show*

In all seriousness, WHO CARES? If a woman wants to stay at home and raise her children or go work or do both - never really understood all the weird judgment about this.....I come from a matriarchal culture so maybe this is just a strange concept to me - we've been "feminists" for thousands of years.

I do agree with the following though:

"In the last decade or so a curious phenomenon has occurred, perhaps arising from the female NF’s characteristic of maintaining her romantic dream even in the face of a contradictory reality. The group that spearheaded the sexual revolution were the female NF’s. It has been the female NF’s who have said NO to the double sexual (and other) standards. It has been the female NF’s who have been most militant in demanding equal orgasmic rights. It has been the female NF’s who have decided that they are not sure they will be true, even as long as their male partners."

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes. She was talking about commercials. Which are whipped up by corporate sales departments.

AH.. I see she added a sarcasm tag.

[LadySpock]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That certainly is a liberal perspective on people. Discard, displace and disrespect those that aren't wanted, elevate those that produce things now.

Feminist...liberalist... facist anarchist...

By the Balls of Cthulhu - you are all about the labels.

The bottom line is - greed is good. Productive people - people who produce tangible things are highly regarded. Right or wrong: That's how our society works.

	The more compassionate and conservative view is that stay at home moms perform the most important function in society, that being to produce high quality and well adjusted children who become the next generation. I suppose the Daycare can do that for working moms who don't want to raise their own children....

Yes - because we all know that raising the children is exclusively a woman's job.

If a woman works it is because she doesn't want to raise her own kids.
If a man works, it is not because he doesn't want to raise his own kids.

Where's the crazy illogical smiley?

[cizzo]

I think the original article belongs in Cosmopolitan or some tabloid, shouldn't be taken seriously and I think it's kinda cute if not sickening to give it credibility.

As far as the title of this thread, which interested me initially to have a look at this thread, how women behave is not going to change a "traditionalist man", because by definition he is going to do shit his way like a man goddammit.

[yoginimama]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which reflects the actual attitude of feminists, rather than what the put in public to hide that.

Interesting you see it that way. You do realize that NOW puts its activism where its mouth is, right? I.e., it is actually lobbying for greater economic rights and security for women who stay at home. Actions speak louder than words.